Hammering on People for Their Goals

I’m sure the intention of this thread is good but I have some questions:

When a person decides to post something on a website, shouldn’t he first get accustomed to the goals and customs? Is it asking too much that, if necessary, this person “lurks” for a while and reads a few posts and articles? Would you post somewhere without knowing what the site is all about? Should the regular forum members really have to educate every “noob” from scratch, just because he is too lazy to check if this is the right place to persue his goals?

I don’t quite swallow the story about the innocent flaming victim…

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
I’m sure the intention of this thread is good but I have some questions:

When a person decides to post something on a website, shouldn’t he first get accustomed to the goals and customs? Is it asking too much that, if necessary, this person “lurks” for a while and reads a few posts and articles? Would you post somewhere without knowing what the site is all about? Should the regular forum members really have to educate every “noob” from scratch, just because he is too lazy to check if this is the right place to persue his goals?

I don’t quite swallow the story about the innocent flaming victim…[/quote]

That’s why we call them idiots and noobs, because that’s what they are. But that does not mean they aren’t humans too and that they should be shunned and ignored. I was an idiot and noob at one point aswell, I’m sure everyone was. Just point out a few articles and let it go.

[quote]GriffinC wrote:
shorty_blitz wrote:

Almost every article on this site is geared towards gaining muscle, or becoming stronger… so if you just FAT and want to lose weight then like ProfX said go to a Weightwatchers forum.

Bullshit. There are SO many, SO many, SO FUCKING MANY articles on fatloss here. So don’t even pull that shit. They even sell a fucking fatloss agent on the front page. Not one person has said they wanted to lose fat without gaining muscle. It’s just that you weirdo’s who think you own the forums come around and try to regulate shit by assuming everyone wants to get all cut and skinny with no muscle at all. Then you spit out your typical garbage and give a gay speach and move on to the next newbie.

Just help educate them, don’t flame them. I learn alot better when someone is willing to help and is nice. If you just start attacking me, I’m going to get defensive and not listen.[/quote]

Okay, so I’ll try to be nice.

I have no idea what you just said though.

Who is it that wants to get cut and skinny with no muscle?

I thought that’s what we were all bitching about?

[quote]Vroom, are you drinking soy milk these days?

You’ve been awfully cranky this past week or so.
Everything okay?[/quote]

How the heck did you get cranky out of that post?

Anyhow, suggesting I’m drinking soy and calling me estrogenic will break the truce bub…

Now that’s more like cranky!

[quote]vroom wrote:
How the heck did you get cranky out of that post?

Anyhow, suggesting I’m drinking soy and calling me estrogenic will break the truce bub…

Now that’s more like cranky![/quote]

Dude…I didn’t call you estrogenic.
Now I’m really wondering if you’re okay.
I just tried to ask if you were okay.

Truce schmooce.
Whatever.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
RJ we usually agree on most, but I just don’t get this post. Were you always large and “hardcore,” or did someone help you along? You need to step back and see that quite possibly the site has evolved some and these kids (not trying to be offensive) just want to get bigger.[/quote]

There is a HYOOOOGE difference between a little guy who gets on here to learn how to get bigger and stronger and a soy-boy that gets on here to show off his 155 pound frame that he doesn’t want to foul with any extra mass.

I’m not against small guys that want to get big - I’m against small guys that think their already big enough.

I’m not talking about PL’ers or OL’ers. Thiose guys are in their own universe, and I have yet to see any of them post asking for advice on their physique.

[quote]Some are idiots< I know, but some are just small guys that want to add quality weight. There is no problem with that. And it doesn’t take 225 to make you hardcore. There exists many bodytypes. Hardcore should be defined by ones attitude and character, not ones bodytype.
[/quote]

This is T-Nation. We are T-Men. That still means something to me. I don’t want my family’s name soiled by a Brad Pitt wannabe trying to tell folks that, at 155, they are big enough. There are a couple of folks still around that will call bullshit on that sort of thing.

I’ve been a part of T-Mag (T-Nation, Testosterone.net, etc.) almost since the very beginning. I never considered it a “bodybuilding” only web site. To me, it was always the best site for training and nutrition information and cutting-edge supplements.

It was “dangerously hardcore” because it didn’t follow the same method as every other fitness, bodybuilding or powerlifting site around, and it was the complete opposite of all the horrible muscle magazines available. It went against the grain and preached the truth, rather than trying to cover it up with made up training articles by guys using gear but saying that regular guys will make great gains too!

It was dangerously hardcore because it wasn’t talking about the latest fashions, new colognes, how to manage your debt or buy stock, new cool cars, how to keep your skin looking young and wrinkle free, etc. It was about the best and most truthful [b]training[/b] and [b]nutrition[/b] information available.

As for other people and their goals, I do agree with Olympic Lifter that many people are immediately attacked for not wanting to be bodybuilders. From what I’ve seen, we have a mix of bodybuilders, powerlifters and athletes on this site as well as a few people who may be weekend warriors or seeking general health and fitness.

Although I agree that everyone can always use a little more muscle, we should also take into account what their particular goals and interests are. And not everyone was blessed to be tall. So there are a bunch of guys (like myself) that will never be massively huge, even if we want to be bodybuilders. Some guys will be 150-165lbs, and for their size and body type, it will fit them perfectly.

And believe it or not, there may be guys who will be smaller than that. Why? Because maybe they compete in athletics where they remain in a certain weight class (MMA - UFC, boxing, wrestling, lightweight bodybuilding, etc.). So you can’t ridicule everyone who is under 200lbs. However, if you’re a taller guy (5’10">) and want to stay a ripped 150lbs or so, then by all means, there may be some “hammering” to be done.

Also, everyone starts somewhere. And because T-Nation is growing by leaps and bounds, it’s beginning to attract people from other places (where they may have been misinformed about training and nutrition over the years). And some of these people that find T-Nation are complete newbies to fitness, training and nutrition. So sometimes you have to cut them a little slack and help them along rather than tearing them up from the beginning.

Why do you think so many people lurk? They see how some people are ripped to shreds when they ask a question or want feedback on their progress (or lack thereof). Why would they want to go through that on a public forum where millions of people will see them and possibly tear them apart?

It takes a lot of balls to post photos online for many to see. Hell, I’ve posted photos (good and bad) and I’ve taken the positive feedback and the abuse. But not everyone is up for that kind of treatment.

So cut people some slack now and then. Try to be helpful rather than hurtful.

Damn, connect the dots man. Soy milk contains soy proteins, which have the effect of… ?

Anyone? Anyone? Yes, what is it Spicoli?

[quote]GriffinC wrote:
Comming from a guy with Johnny Bravo in his avatar. You do not rule this site, or anyone in it. This is just a fucking website not a cult, get over yourself and the whole “OMFG DANGEROUSLY HARDCORE”. It only meant something to people with no lives who turned to internet sites for support. If you don’t like someone’s posts/threads just don’t post in them.[/quote]

What in the fuck does it matter what is in my avatar?

If that’s all you have - you need to go find a better argument. It’s as weak as you are.

And you are EXACTLY the type of person that could never understand “Dangerously Hardcore”. You are an angry, little boy, who seems to have found his bravery behind the safety of a computer screen.

Chill out - have a soy-latte, and think about why tyou are even fucking here, son.

[quote]GriffinC wrote:

That’s why we call them idiots and noobs, because that’s what they are.[/quote]

I never said that a person lacking knowledge is an idiot. There is a difference between someone being an idiot and someone being a noob. The difference becomes apparent in the way someone expresses his goals and reacts to constructive criticism (not saying that all critiscism posted on this site is constructive, but that is another story…).

[quote]
But that does not mean they aren’t humans too and that they should be shunned and ignored. [/quote]

Feel free to point out where I said that noobs are not human. Besides, this doesn’t relate to the subject matter in any way. And again, a person who takes a minimum of time to find out what this place is all about should be able to word his post in a way that avoids pissing off the majority of regular members or sets him up for mockery and flaming. IMHO, most regulars here are more than eager to help someone who honestly wants to improve. Yet, if the “improvement” the person is looking for runs diametrically opposed to the essence of this site, what is the person doing here in the first place?

[quote]
I was an idiot and noob at one point aswell,[/quote]

What ever you say, Griff, what ever you say…:wink:

[quote]
I’m sure everyone was.[/quote]

No. See above.

[quote]
Just point out a few articles and let it go.[/quote]

Did it before, will do it again…

Hope I could clarify my point. Noob!
:slight_smile:

[quote]rainjack wrote:
This is a bodybuilding site. At least it used to be. All of the desktops I have downloaded say,“Dangerously Hardcore”.
[/quote]
Show me where on this site that states it is merely for bodybuilding

A regualr reader would have caught on that this site is not just for bodybuilding. Do I need to point you in the direction of the early Ian King articles ca. 1999?

They have little time for punks like you who are only here because they want to get better at something. Just because you have different goals than them doesn’t mean you have to rip on them constantly. Get a life.

No one forces you to look at their pictures and frankly no one cares how you feel. (I’m glad someone read my comment on the metrosexual thread about oprah)

What did it mean, oh Great One…?

Okay. Slowly now–estrogenic is not a word I use. I’d be more likely to call you “estro-boy” or “estro-warrior”…and since I was only trying to convey to you that I was a little concerned about you because you seemed on edge this week–more than usual–I didn’t call you any of those things, and used soy milk as a joke.

Now…since you don’t care that I’m trying to be nice and concerned about your state of mind etc, fuck ya then.

But don’t say I didn’t try, vroomie.
Cuz u is my brudda–the one I’d have killed during childhood, but still my brudda.
:wink:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
This is a bodybuilding site. At least it used to be. All of the desktops I have downloaded say,“Dangerously Hardcore”.

Show me where on this site that states it is merely for bodybuilding

[/quote]

it used to say “bodybuilding’s think tank” in big ass letters on the home page. I don’t know if it does anymore or if that was considered too hardcore for the metro types.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
What did it mean, oh Great One…?[/quote]

Balls.

Good solid T-pumping balls.

Not golf balls (sorry Veg) not whiffle balls, not even baseballs…maybe footballs and medicine balls…but it meant balls.

That does not include discussions of men wearing make-up, unless you’re talking about Gene Simmons. Who’s a pretty solid T-Dude.

It certainly didn’t mean people like you, Liftus, coming here and jumping all over a Vet like RJ, calling him punk and shit.

This thread lost its direction the moment the original poster missed the meaning of several of the other posts in the previous thread.

I started lifting weights seriously in college. When I started, there were no web sites filled with information so most of my original knowledge came from books and asking questions of every guy bigger than me who looked like I wanted to look. I weighed about 150lbs upon high school graduation and have the pics to prove it if anyone wants to pm me. I am currently hovering around 265lbs and plan to start dieting seriously around October. My reasons for that goal are personal and career related, however, I feel I have gained enough size to be damned close to my goal after dieting this next time if not past it.

I have never clowned someone for simply having a different goal than me. If that is what anyone has gotten from my posts, then you obviously don’t read them deeper than a quick glance. If someone logs onto a site that IS geared towards building muscle, getting stronger, getting physically better, and the promotion of knowledge and makes statements like, “I don’t want to get huuuuuge so I am not interested in anyone telling me how to gain muscle” even though they look like they don’t know what “heavy lifting” is, was or will be, it is an insult. Why, you ask? Because it erases the many years that I have spent pushing hard towards a goal. It erases the many meals that I have forced down in close to a decade and the fact that I can honestly say that I have never trained “off and on”, but consistantly…even when feeling under the weather or when I had a final the next day or a mid term, or when life generally sucked, when friends died, when money was tight, when I was worried at one time if I was even going to finish school because I hated it that much at one point…it erases all of that and pretends as if “getting big” is just a few steps away.

Yes, I am tired of this mindset and one thing many of you need to realise is, this mindset was not this prevalent years before. This metrosexual aversion to size is a new phenomenon. I can’t think of one time in the history of this country where looking weak (or damn near the same size as your girlfriend) was a goal as long as your abs shown. That takes no hard work or years of effort. Any fool can starve themselves and walk around with little to no muscle with a six pack. The only people it seems to impress are high school aged girls…and even they seem to grow out of it much past the age of 22.

No, I am not going to hide my personality or my feelings on this issue. I am glad I have two nuts and a dick and I live my life trying to maximize their potential…as well as the potential of the rest of my body, mind and soul.

I could care less what your goals are, but if your goals are to NOT gain muscle even though you look like you have never lifted a weight, you are on the wrong site. Sorry if that offends…buh bye.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
This is a bodybuilding site. At least it used to be. All of the desktops I have downloaded say,“Dangerously Hardcore”.

Show me where on this site that states it is merely for bodybuilding[/quote]

It used to say “Bodybuilding’s Think Tank”. But I have know idea wht a fucking think tank is - so you might be right.

[quote]I’ve been a member here for a long, long time. I adhere to the original tenets of this site.

A regualr reader would have caught on that this site is not just for bodybuilding. Do I need to point you in the direction of the early Ian King articles ca. 1999?[/quote]

Have you ever read any of the print mags that T-Mag used to put out? Then maybe you should. They were indeed dedicated to getting bigger.

[quote]I have little time for 5’10" 155 pound metrosexuals that are affraid of some mass. I won’t apologize for it, nor will I be brow beaten into ‘accepting’ them into the t-life style. The only thing dangerous about these guys are their estrogen levels.

They have little time for punks like you who are only here because they want to get better at something. Just because you have different goals than them doesn’t mean you have to rip on them constantly. Get a life.[/quote]

You take time out of your busy day to post on this thread and tell me to get a life? Is that your argument? Please go through these threads and show me where I have ripped on a soyboy even one time? I dare you to find more than two posts in any thread where I am attacking a person for trying to better themselves. Go ahead. Show me.

I can show you several times where I , and others, have ripped a kid who doean’t want advice, but is instead posting pics of himself to show how good he looks at 135 and 8% BF.

The same can be said for you drivel here - yet you continue to post. Why is that? FYI - I rarely read any of your posts, so I wouldn’t be patting myself on the back were I you.

If you don’t know - there is absolutely no point in telling you. Was there a purpose to this post, or did you just feel the need to attack me?

You don’t think I’m going to buy this line of bullshit do you? The concerned about my state of mind concept?

Please.

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
What did it mean, oh Great One…?

Balls.

Good solid T-pumping balls.

Not golf balls (sorry Veg) not whiffle balls, not even baseballs…maybe footballs and medicine balls…but it meant balls.

That does not include discussions of men wearing make-up, unless you’re talking about Gene Simmons. Who’s a pretty solid T-Dude.

It certainly didn’t mean people like you, Liftus, coming here and jumping all over a Vet like RJ, calling him punk and shit.

[/quote]
Are you his boyfriend? He can’t defend himself? Thanx for asnwering my rhetorical question. What does Vet status have to do with anything? People like you ascribing this mythic status upon punks–there I said it again–like yourself and him give this site a bad name.

As I said before–you have you own definitiuon of “Hardcore”–mine doesn’t include bullying punks who have no balls.

If you were a true hardcore vet you’d help the weaker and smaller of the species not rip them to shreds for not being like you. But seeing as how you tend to post on the other threads it doesn’t suprise me.

Hey Liftus: this is what it means.

Prof, for all our disagreements…well said.

Actually, there isn’t a direct reference to bodybuilding. Grow! is written on the top of the site…

I wonder why they called their supplement Grow!..

and not SHRINK!..

or TONE!..