Gymnastics Biceps

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101

[quote]Professor X wrote:
mldj wrote:

But saying triple bodyweight deadlift doesn’t impress you, only because the guy was light… That’s just stupid.

It’s stupid to not be impressed with a 250lbs lift?

What the fuck is wrong with some of you? 250lbs is not heavy. I am betting every single one of you who worry more about what the lifter weighs than how much they are lifting is a short guy or a very small guy.[/quote]

So I agree that 250lb is not heavy and I am a small guy.

I also agree that the smaller/shorter guys are going to be more impressed/focused on the weight of the lifter.

That said,isn’t that normal and understandable?

I think it would be safe to say that a 325lb guy would focus on absolute numbers rather than on comparing number to bodyweight because he would view his absolute numbers as more favorable.

In bodybuilding terms isn’t the number far less important either way than the results you are getting physique wise?

102

[quote]Westclock wrote:
ABenns wrote:
gilesdm wrote:
Westclock wrote:

I am however refuting their strength in comparison to a majority of even the untrained male population.

hahahahahahahaha! I’m sorry, but that made me laugh!

I completly agree with you, gilesdm. I think that westclock has no idea what he is talking about. Olympic gymnasts are superhuman, and ridiculously strong. I bet a gymnast could do atleast 60 solid chinups, which i think is alittle above average.

Agian, 60 “solid chinups” is not impressive when you weight 130 pounds.

None of you defending gymnasts seem to understand how bodyweight lifts work.
[/quote]

You’re a moron. I don’t give a fuck if one weighed 50lbs and did 60 chin-ups, that is insanely impressive.

103

[quote]Westclock wrote:
strength relative to bodyweight is not the same thing as strength.

Those guys are probably weaker than most guys who just go to the gym and lift half assed on a steady diet of fast food, simply because of how small they are. Granted they are highly developed for their size, but thats like saying a jacked midget is impressive, hes still a midget.

this is mostly because the average male gymnast is 5’6" and 140. many are as low as 5’4 and 125 pounds. Thats a female like build to say the least.

For most women it would like dating a child.

I will never be jealous of a male smaller than my girl.

Ill take my extra 8 inches of height, and 90 pounds of muscle thank you very much.

[/quote]

sounds like you’re pretty clueless about the dynamics of some of the tough gymnastic holds (of which the Iron Cross is but one), and the incredible strength required to pull them off successfully. pound for pound, these Olympian gymnasts are probably some of the most monstrously strong athletes in the world.

104

[quote]Maskirovka wrote:
Westclock wrote:
strength relative to bodyweight is not the same thing as strength.

Those guys are probably weaker than most guys who just go to the gym and lift half assed on a steady diet of fast food, simply because of how small they are. Granted they are highly developed for their size, but thats like saying a jacked midget is impressive, hes still a midget.

this is mostly because the average male gymnast is 5’6" and 140. many are as low as 5’4 and 125 pounds. Thats a female like build to say the least.

For most women it would like dating a child.

I will never be jealous of a male smaller than my girl.

Ill take my extra 8 inches of height, and 90 pounds of muscle thank you very much.

sounds like you’re pretty clueless about the dynamics of some of the tough gymnastic holds (of which the Iron Cross is but one), and the incredible strength required to pull them off successfully. pound for pound, these Olympian gymnasts are probably some of the most monstrously strong athletes in the world.
[/quote]

Wow.

“Monstrously strong” is pushing it…A LOT. It is like it isn’t enough that you simply respect that they are great gymnasts, some of you have to act like they are Supermen and stronger than anyone else.

I get the feeling that short guys worry more about “pound for pound” strength than anyone else in the world.

105

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Maskirovka wrote:
Westclock wrote:
strength relative to bodyweight is not the same thing as strength.

Those guys are probably weaker than most guys who just go to the gym and lift half assed on a steady diet of fast food, simply because of how small they are. Granted they are highly developed for their size, but thats like saying a jacked midget is impressive, hes still a midget.

this is mostly because the average male gymnast is 5’6" and 140. many are as low as 5’4 and 125 pounds. Thats a female like build to say the least.

For most women it would like dating a child.

I will never be jealous of a male smaller than my girl.

Ill take my extra 8 inches of height, and 90 pounds of muscle thank you very much.

sounds like you’re pretty clueless about the dynamics of some of the tough gymnastic holds (of which the Iron Cross is but one), and the incredible strength required to pull them off successfully. pound for pound, these Olympian gymnasts are probably some of the most monstrously strong athletes in the world.

Wow.

“Monstrously strong” is pushing it…A LOT. It is like it isn’t enough that you simply respect that they are great gymnasts, some of you have to act like they are Supermen and stronger than anyone else.

I get the feeling that short guys worry more about “pound for pound” strength than anyone else in the world.[/quote]

I think it’s more the guys that are both short AND small.
At least I never heard Lee Priest bitch about something like that.

106

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

You’re a moron. I don’t give a fuck if one weighed 50lbs and did 60 chin-ups, that is insanely impressive.[/quote]

450×553 237 KB

Ill bet you think this guy is impressive too huh ?

You just want 60 chin ups at 130 pounds to be impressive.

107

[quote]Westclock wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

You’re a moron. I don’t give a fuck if one weighed 50lbs and did 60 chin-ups, that is insanely impressive.

450×553 237 KB

Ill bet you think this guy is impressive too huh ?

You just want 60 chin ups at 130 pounds to be impressive.[/quote]

I hear that midget is “monstrously strong”.

108

I did skip some pages in the middle but why does everyone have to bicker like little kids.

Smaller frame, lighter people may respect and be more in awe of those displaying relative strength whereas those people with larger, heavier frames probably respect and look forward to seeing displays of absolute strength. To each their own. I’m just as impressed by seeing a gymnast perform a very hard skill on the rings as I am seeing somehow squat a huge amount of weight. They each have strengths and weaknesses. Put each in the opposite situation and they fail miserably. I just personally enjoy seeing people that dedicate themselves to training for something and succeeding at it.

109

Wow this thread has become long.

People that rave about gymnasts being ‘superhuman strong’ are very stupid. Yes they are very strong and have a really good muscle to weight ratio. That may impress some people but it does not impress others. On the other side I think shorter people sometimes feel like their bb achievements are not fully appreciated. I can understand this viewpoint and it explains why some of the people on this thread have been so quick to snap at Proff X and Westclock. Proff X & Westclock are not insulting the gymnasts, they just aren’t impressed, like others are at the gymnasts. After all we are all entitled to our own views. On the other hand I think it is easy for some comments to come across to shorter lifters as detracting from their lifting acheivements.

Yes gymnasts have really good weight to strength ratio. If that impresses you then great but dont be shocked + try and ram it down others throats when they are not impressed by relative strength. Everyone is interested/impressed with different things and thats what makes the world go round. Maybe at the end of the day it is slighty easier for shorter people, but some people are blessed with good genetics and thus have an advantage also. I am not one impressed by relative lifts either but likewise I will not be less impressed by a great physique just cos the guy is short.

Apologies for the rambling :slight_smile:

110

chill children
There is no way to test but to perhaps have even a 250lb guy use a gravitron to take the weight held to make it equal, and have them do an “iron cross off”.
Short and tall and that whole argument is a worthless exercise because you are the height you are and it aint changing. Should powerlifting contest measure the ft lbs moved to judge the contest? Stop. take a moment and shut the fuck up.

These guys are impressive athletes. They are strong. YES for their size but they can’t change that nor do they want to. That first picture. that is muscle. That is the product of hard work. Give them their due and shut the fuck up. Go back to one of the billion TBT vs split threads. Meet you there.

111

[quote]Westclock wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

You’re a moron. I don’t give a fuck if one weighed 50lbs and did 60 chin-ups, that is insanely impressive.

450×553 237 KB

Ill bet you think this guy is impressive too huh ?

You just want 60 chin ups at 130 pounds to be impressive.[/quote]

I don’t want anything, jackass. It’s impressive all on it’s own. Alot of the “bigger” guys on here are talking shit about the “little” guys being good at something because they’re so small. But, no one [unless i missed it] is calling the “bigger” guys out for not being able to do anything but push heavy weights. If all of this is so unimpressive big guy, post a vid of you doing any of it. Discounting ones physical feats of damn near superhuman strength by saying “he can do it because he’s small” is fucking retarded. And, I’m 5’9 180lbs in case you wanna call me on the little guy card.

112

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Westclock wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:

You’re a moron. I don’t give a fuck if one weighed 50lbs and did 60 chin-ups, that is insanely impressive.

450×553 237 KB

Ill bet you think this guy is impressive too huh ?

You just want 60 chin ups at 130 pounds to be impressive.

I don’t want anything, jackass. It’s impressive all on it’s own. Alot of the “bigger” guys on here are talking shit about the “little” guys being good at something because they’re so small. But, no one [unless i missed it] is calling the “bigger” guys out for not being able to do anything but push heavy weights. If all of this is so unimpressive big guy, post a vid of you doing any of it. Discounting ones physical feats of damn near superhuman strength by saying “he can do it because he’s small” is fucking retarded. And, I’m 5’9 180lbs in case you wanna call me on the little guy card.[/quote]

regressing in muscle mass do to chin ups is totally different then progressing in muscle mass to use more weight.

as in, for a big guy to do more chins, he would ultimately have to get weaker and lose size to so it(no one 250+ pounds is doing 60 chins). Whereas a small guy would actually have to make progress to do what the big guy does.

113

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
But, no one [unless i missed it] is calling the “bigger” guys out for not being able to do anything but push heavy weights. [/quote]

Gee, they actually do it all of the time. Even the authors here do it which is why there has been so much debate about the uselessness of the word “functional”. They basically claim that bodybuilders aren’t functional with every bodybuilding related article from at least two of the authors here…yet you have missed this?

114

[quote]Professor X wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
But, no one [unless i missed it] is calling the “bigger” guys out for not being able to do anything but push heavy weights.

Gee, they actually do it all of the time. Even the authors here do it which is why there has been so much debate about the uselessness of the word “functional”.

They basically claim that bodybuilders aren’t functional with every bodybuilding related article from at least two of the authors here…yet you have missed this?[/quote]

My acceleration isn’t as good as when I was 200 pounds or 185 for that matter, but my top end is pretty much the same due to increased leg strength.

My agility has decreased from when I was 185, but strong calves have made up for my 200 to 220 shift.

So I lost agility going from 185 to 200 but not so much from 200 to 220.

Its just so much harder to get 220 moving fast from a standing start, and its really hard to change directions when moving fast.

I find it more difficult to get hang time off my non dominant leg, especially when moving backwards, but my standing and forward running jump have actually improved slightly in height.

I can still pull a 5:10 mile, and while thats not as impressive as my 4:50 back in high school, I was like 180 when I did that, and I feel its fast as fuck for a longer distance and a guy my size, I use alot of oxygen, and carry alot of upper body weight.

I can’t spin around on a set of rings, but then again I dont want to.

115

Nice kettle of fish. We have a good collection of insecure people in here. The short dudes with their “short man” syndrome trying to prove themselves to every lifter on the planet, the normal -height/slightly tall skinny fucker with less-than-ordinary lifts and his

“lanky loser” syndrome trying to talk down the shorter well-proportioned guys with his superior “lean body mass” and the over-bulked medium height dude who’s stuck in “full house” mode,

unable to hold on to his mass while dieting down and spends his time trash talking the target of the day/week to escape from the harsh reality that no one gives a rats ass about his “accomplishments”.

and oh yes, add me to the list of insecure people, but you knew that already.

Carry on little old women, carry on. I was just passing by…

116

[quote]Westclock wrote:
Women dont like guys who are 5’4.

Just saying.

They look jacked because they have very low body fat, and they are short, which compresses the muscle and makes them look larger with less mass.

Factor in excellent genetics for tone and shape, and bingo.

These guys arms probably aren’t that strong, most of them are very light, and holding your bodyweight on those rings is significantly less impressive when your 140 pounds with short arms for leverage. [/quote]

You sir know nothing about gymnastics yet you talk about it like it’s easy. And your wrong; not all gymnats are super small, its just that for ringsmen the ones that make it the farthest also have that body size advantage in their favor. Their heavier competitors can’t match their genetical advantage.

Their arms are VERY strong! And its the lenght of your legs that determines leverage; for most things having longer arms and shorter legs is better! Things like the iron cross and inverted cross shorter arms are of more benefit but for the planch, maltese and levers having longer arms and shorter legs really helps a lot.

Most of these guys can deadlift and squat quite a bit of weight and they never really use weights. One of my gymnastic buddies who could hold an iron cross with 20 lbs attached to his feet could easily deadlift 2.5x his body weigth and squat almost the same ratio.

Their leg strenght comes from floor work and vault mostly; 90% of the training for legs is plyometric with lots of explosive jumping.

Coach Sommers also has a pretty neat Pistol guide for leg strenght. The progression follows like this: You move to the next progression by being proficient at the previous.

Single leg squat 10 reps each leg
Single leg squat 10 reps each leg /w weight in hand
Single leg squat jump onto a box
Single leg squat jump for distance
Single leg squat jump for distance onto a box

If your in the last progression I’d say your legs are pretty darn strong.

117

I respect what these gymnasts do. Really. With a height of 6’3" and my 6’6" wingspan, I have a snowball’s chance in hell of doing what they do.

but personally, I find things like WSM competitions and powerlifting far more interesting.

118

Thats better, dude. I also have respect for the Hamm brothers but there’s no way in hell i could ever do an iron cross (although that would be pretty cool).

There’s a clear difference between what you’re saying and some skinny loser using the gymnasts’ example to fire off a potshot at shorter lifters.

No short dude here has insulted someone like Jeff Lewis for having a poor strength to weight ratio - they seem to take pride in pushing a few times their bodyweight on certain movements and want to feel proud about it without everyone else stepping all over them.

But the overbulked and skinny normal-height folk seem to want to vent their frustrations on the “midgets” doing their thing - simply because some “respected” strength coach (with a penchant for linking the tidal movements with the length of a person’s toenails) takes his own pot shots at some mysterious unseen “weak” bodybuilders that walk the earth hidden from all the rest of us.

[quote]thephantom wrote:
I respect what these gymnasts do. Really. With a height of 6’3" and my 6’6" wingspan, I have a snowball’s chance in hell of doing what they do.

but personally, I find things like WSM competitions and powerlifting far more interesting. [/quote]

119

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
Thats better, dude. I also have respect for the Hamm brothers but there’s no way in hell i could ever do an iron cross (although that would be pretty cool).

There’s a clear difference between what you’re saying and some skinny loser using the gymnasts’ example to fire off a potshot at shorter lifters.

No short dude here has insulted someone like Jeff Lewis for having a poor strength to weight ratio - they seem to take pride in pushing a few times their bodyweight on certain movements and want to feel proud about it without everyone else stepping all over them.

But the overbulked and skinny normal-height folk seem to want to vent their frustrations on the “midgets” doing their thing - simply because some “respected” strength coach (with a penchant for linking the tidal movements with the length of a person’s toenails) takes his own pot shots at some mysterious unseen “weak” bodybuilders that walk the earth hidden from all the rest of us.

thephantom wrote:
I respect what these gymnasts do. Really. With a height of 6’3" and my 6’6" wingspan, I have a snowball’s chance in hell of doing what they do.

but personally, I find things like WSM competitions and powerlifting far more interesting.

[/quote]

big lifts on smaller guys are impressive. Bodyweight ratios are typically brought up so that little people can feel superior. Everyone understand a squat at 132 that’s huge is huge. same goes for 275.

The only point of a bodyweight ratio is comparison, or to show progression (2.5x bodyweight dead from 2x a few months ago). And the people who’re favored in bodyweight discussions are the ridiculously small.

why bother when we have wilks numbers to compare.

120

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
regressing in muscle mass do to chin ups is totally different then progressing in muscle mass to use more weight.

as in, for a big guy to do more chins, he would ultimately have to get weaker and lose size to so it(no one 250+ pounds is doing 60 chins). Whereas a small guy would actually have to make progress to do what the big guy does.[/quote]

Nobody said you’d have to regress in muscle mass to do more chins. The following paragraph is from an article by John Allstadt. Here is the link: 404 | Dragon Door

"John Grimek and Olympic lifting legend John Davis could both chin themselves six or seven times with EITHER ARM, at bodyweights of around 200 pounds. Eugene Sandow could perform a one-arm chin with ANY ONE OF HIS TEN FINGERS, at a bodyweight of around 190.

Marvin Eder could perform 11 one-arm pullups at a bodyweight of no less than 195, and also do 80 (that’s right, 80) consecutive two-arm pullups. For you smaller guys, consider the many gymnasts out there who can perform numerous one-arm pullups, or even more frightening, the rock climbers of today who can chin themselves with as much as 150% of bodyweight… with ONE arm!

And of course, for you really big guys, think about this: Bert Assarti, a strength legend from the early 1940’s, could chin himself three times with either arm at a bodyweight of 265 pounds! Mr. Assarti could also do a two-arm pullup with over 200 pounds of additional weight strapped to his body."

I see some of your points, but the assumption that you have to lose muscle mass to do more chins is just stupid. Of course a big guy will never be able to do as many chins as a small guy, but you clearly stated that he’d have to lose muscle mass to do more chins. How about gaining more strenght?

However, the whole discussion is pointless. Yes, gymnasts are amazingly strong. Yes, they are not nearly as strong as powerlifters or strongmen. Who cares? After all, they are gymnasts, they have to be good at gymnastics. The whole thing reminds me of the stupid but often asked question “who is stronger, powerlifters or strongmen”, just worse.