big martin
Well I feel I should be doing Oly Lifts to complement the training I’m already doing (big lifts, HIIT, skills work, sport specific lactic acid threshold training, etc).
The problem is I only have access to the one handed stuff.
I’m curious if the one handed stuff is not as beneficial as regular oly lifts; and if I’d do better adding more plyometrics or something?
Thanks
Don’t know why I assumed the original question was about boxing :). Although neither are my main focus I have both a fighting and gymnastics background and have coached both. Gymnastics would take too long to learn but you can still train the same qualities in a more controlled manner. Firing your muscles at varying speeds and creating a lot of force can be duplicated. Look at what a gymnast does that make them so explosive and efficient, everything from very heavy isometrics (ie. iron cross) vs very explosive plyometrics (jumps, front handsprings, high bar etc.) You can train these qualities without becoming a gymnast. The first thing you should do is determine your dominant and weak motor qualities. Here’s an example I used in an article recently:
Let me demonstrate a real life example of how 2 athletes can demonstrate their force in 3 different manners using an identical movement with a need for different training emphasis to improve their force output. Running tests like these will give you clues where to focus your efforts to maximize your training economy.
Two boxers test their bench press. They test the following:
A: Max bench press and time in seconds it takes to complete the movement from start to finish
B: Amount of weight they can throw 12 inches
C: Amount of weight relative to their 1 rep max they can complete 3 reps in 3 seconds.
Boxer A is able to bench a maximum of 325 lbs and it takes him 6 seconds to complete his lift. He can complete 3 repetitions in 3 seconds with 162 lbs (50%). He is able to free weight throw 125 lbs for 12 inches (either by using a smith machine or by lying on bench having spotters catch the weight).
Boxer B is able to bench 265 lbs in 2.5 seconds. He is also able to complete 3 repetitions in 3 seconds with 162 lbs (60%). He is also able to free weight bench throw 125 lbs 12 inches.
Take a look at these results. Boxer A is stronger then Boxer B, but boxer B is better at developing acceleration. An increase in strength is only beneficial if it leads to an increase in performance ability and remember for our hypothetical example these guys are boxers. The bench press throw and the amount of weight one can lift quickly are both going to correlate better with punch power than does the maximum weight lifted. In this example these athletes might have the same punching power but 2 entirely different training needs.
Boxer A would likely benefit from more acceleration work in his training rather than pure strength training so he can learn to apply more force quicker. He could train using lighter weights with more speed and use loaded and unloaded upper body plyometric movements while maintaining his maximal strength. A further increase in his maximal bench press strength won’t be as time effective at improving his punching power as acceleration training will. Ideally, he should be able to complete his 1rm bench in 4 seconds or less and be able to complete 1 rep per second with 60% or more of his maximal bench press. Right now it takes him 6 seconds to complete his maximal lift and he is only able to complete 1 rep per second with 50%. As a boxer he needs to be able to apply as much force as possible in 1 or 2 tenths of a second. Right now he’s too slow so most likely any additional max strength he gains will be useless when it comes to punching power and may in fact make him even slower - until he learns to use what strength he does have quicker. Once he increases his acceleration abilities he can then go back and build up his max strength and repeat the process over again.
On the other hand, boxer B would obviously benefit from increasing his maximal strength. That is, if he increased his maximal bench press strength, his free weight throw and punching power would increase as well because he is obviously already excellent at developing force quickly. He completes his max lift in under 4 seconds and gets 1 rep per second with 60% or more of his 1 rep max. If he improves his max strength it will likely directly transfer to an increase in his punching power!
This is when it’s time to really get to town and work on building up max strength. However, he will also need to pay attention to his speed as his strength increases because he will eventually find himself in a situation like boxer A and need to go back and build up his speed and acceleration to better match his strength.
It should be apparent from this example that the same cookie cutter program won’t be optimal for everyone and that training needs to be individualized. Just because Boxer B is going to get fantastic results by heavy strength training and Boxer A gets fantastic results from explosive training doesn’t mean either approach will be optimal for anyone. Another thing worth mentioning is that the development of increased maximal strength has a greater potential to increase than acceleration and speed. Because of this, Athlete B (and other athletes like him) actually have a big advantage in short-term potential over athlete A. His ability to apply maximal force in a quick movement is already outstanding and is something that is a hallmark of a great athlete. This ability is something that must be developed in athlete A and will require a more patient approach.
If the mods will allow it you can see the entire article here:
Cam…i dont think there is any true way to measure overtraining I meant they need ot learn to be at a 100% performance level while being pushed to near overtraining…what i am talking about and this is from personal experence with college wrestlers…is that usually these guys are being pulled every wich way so hard physically that there body does not understand the meaning of being overtrained becuase there constantly there… they have mat practice usually twice a day and there coaches run there balls off…in fact several off my d2 guys are ran near 4-10 miles total during a practice along with tons of mat sprints and tumbling and this is just before and after practice along with there pure mat practice for 2 hours during practice…do this for a week and you would be so overtrained, skinny, weak, tired, now add on top of that your soemtimes going days without eating to make weight…so there at this point your overtrained or near the end of your rope…now you have two options you can not workout in the weight room and loose all your strength or you can suck it up and go give a hour of weight work in a near or overtrained state and get better…and on game days wrestling isnt like most sports where you get ot rest the days before a match you have to train full go to make weight…so your going into your match also near overtrained and guess what the one who can out perform the other in this overtrained state wins…bm
head butt…ok…i was just wandering…there goodlifts if added to your program in the correct spots…bm
Good article Kelly.
I’d have to agree with bm and his posts. I’d also like to say that repitition with fighting techniques, strikes, and grappling CANNOT be overlooked. To often a fighter will spend three hours a day hitting weights when a majority of this time should be spent training to FIGHT. Look @ Ken Shamrock, don’t mean to offend any fans but, he’s got a great physique and claims to train like a mother but in my opinion he’s spending far to much time with the weights b/c 2 out of every 3 times he can’t back his mouth in the ring(A fight when he talked trash for months just to throw in the towel in the first round comes to mind.)
Hey Big Martin,
Can you give an example of a lactate threshold workout you’d do?
Thanks a lot.
there are a bunch i use…here is one i just did friday i took this from my log…my deadlifts muscles feel very out of shape so i will do this for the next few fridays and it will do the trick…
latic acid conditioning speed deadlifts off 4 inch box with 1 doubled mini band per side…10 seconds rest between pulls…
225x10 singles
300x10 singles
another great one is low box squats with the ss bar alternating between close and medium stance doing 20 sets of 2 reps with 30 seconds rest between sets…
tire flips are a great one…do a total of 30 flips with 10 seconds rest in between flips…
sled rows for time put on 2 plates and use a v-grip and do row’s with several grips for 5-10 minutes non stop…
another good one is power cleans for time…use 20% of your clean max and do 1 rep evry 5-10 seconds for 2 3-6minute sets non stop…rest about 1 minutes between sets…
med ball throws for time is great also…do a throw walk over get the ball do it again for a total of 10 minutes…
russian complexes are also great…do a search for this at elite fitness…martin rooney gives all kinds of great examples…
give them a try …bm
another good one is power cleans for time…use 20% of your clean max and do 1 rep evry 5-10 seconds for 2 3-6minute sets non stop…rest about 10 minutes between sets…
this was supposed ot be rest 10 minutes between sets…bm
Like others said, this is a great thread. hijack has anyone seen The Smashing Machine? It’s a documentary of Mark Kerr and Mark Coleman. Shows Kerr’s morphine problems and all kinds of crazy stuff. I picked it up at blockbuster and never returned the thing.
Sounds great…Yeah Martin Rooney has some great stuff over at Elite Fitness
I heard he’s coming out with an MMA training book
Should be great.
Yeah, it’s good. The DVD has some stuff on Renzo Gracie as well.
A must for any MMA fan.
The lactic acid stuff looks interesting. I may play around with some of it for my next weight workout.
Smashing Machine is one of the best. I didn’t think he was addicted to morphine per say though; rather a painkiller that helped speed the healing process- having almost steroid-like qualities.
Bas Rutten stole that documentary though. “You walked right into it”
He was addicted to nubain. No steroid like qualities
man i am so excited about martin rooneys dvd thats coming out soon…cant wait to see it…ever since i started working with college wrestlers and some other fighters they are by far my favorite athletes in the world…you wont find any more athletes that are more dedicated and hard working…bm
squattin600
don’t know where i heard that about nubain. i think the guy had other problems besides the pain killers, they just drove the situation to the breaking point. Dude got some ugly skin though, looks kinda like a cyborg or like a terminator or somethin.