GSP getting trained by the best!

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

Here is GSP doing pad work with Yod. Any comments on GSP’s performance?

(EDIT: As I post this I haven’t really watched the whole thing through, I’ll post some thoughts later.)

I love the comment on Youtube under this video:

“Dude, did you see the trainer spin his pad at 0:27? That was freaking sexy, I’ve never seen that before in my two years of training, haha”

Yod does that stuff all the time, and it’s really amazing to watch him working with a fighter who he has a good rhythm with. Like a deadly dance of dangerous dudes.

22

Okay, my thoughts on this immediately:

I see Yod has adjusted a typical pad work session to be as a function to MMA as possible. I see throughout that he doesn’t require GSP to block with his shins, GSP’s shoulders are not packed as high as you might expect from a Nak Muay and occasionally Yod leaps down at GSP’s legs and forces him to react. Also, when Yod kicks, GSP is not required to do a a typical leg catch all the time, followed by a punch or elbow. I imagine that’s to avoid becoming tangled in the opponent and risk going to ground prematurely. Personally, I don’t like blocking kicks with my forearms. It’s a good way to break your arm.

I would say that GSP is kicking hard, like a horse hard, but he is not getting off the mark as fast as I expected from him. This could be early on with Yod, and maybe he hasn’t found that rhythm I was referring to earlier.

23

[quote]fnf wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:
All of MMA is missing Muay Thai. Serious and authentic Muay Thai not the watered down shit offered as an MMA bandaid just so you can stick a label on your shorts.
[/quote]

Hey Humble, what is watered down in MMA Muay Thai, in comparison to authentic Muay Thai? I know that you modify certain techniques in every style to fit MMA. I was just curious because I’ve only dabbled a little in Muay Thai. [/quote]

To put it simply, Muay Thai devotes everything into every strike. They don’t box you, they punch you. They don’t kick you, they commit their own well being to destroying yours.

MMA fighters fight in preservation mode and hence why they cannot pull off the devastating power that Muay Thai or boxing purists can.

They don’t train their athleticism to transition between the pureness of each style but rather focus on half efforts of each style.

I miss the devotion and commitment to techniques like Mark Coleman driving you until he reefs you to the ground. Like a Gracie allowing themselves to get beaten to a pulp in total commitment to being able to grab and tear off your limb, like a Pedro Rizzo who is going to throw his last milligram of weight into thudding your thing to a dead pulp. The lacking commitment to technique is what I dislike and it is not reserved to Muay Thai but all other respectable arts.

24

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

Of course you’re right about the elasticity, flexibility, and functionality, but it’s hard to argue with GSP’s results up to this point. Other than a slight hiccup vs Serra, and a lackluster performance due to an eye poke against Shield GSP has pretty much physically dominated everyone he has faced since taking the belt. His explosiveness, strength, and general athleticism has been off the charts with his former strength training regime.
[/quote]

No doubt but all his last performances were not ‘fights’ merely displays of greater athleticism and game plan.

End of the day it is still a fight and irrespective of the money and lifestyle, it will die a miserable death if fighters forget to fight.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
The thing is, straight Muay Thai striking is different than MMA striking. The presence/threat of takedowns changes things. There have been some very knowledgeable Muay Thai coaches (Duke Rufus, Rob Kaman, Mark Dellagrotte) who have trained numerous fighters, as well as some successful Thai fighters (Cro Cop, Melvin Manhoef, Overeem) who have successfully transitioned to MMA. I’m sure you’re also aware that MMA fighters are never going to be on the same level in terms of Muay Thai as someone who focuses on it exclusively (like Buakaw, Ramon Dekkers, John Wayne Parr, Yod). Straight Muay Thai fighters are specialists while MMA fighters are synergists.

That said, I think training with some of Thailand’s best Muay Thai coaches can only help GSP’s overall striking skills.[/quote]

As I mentioned in the post above, I see the problem more in the lack of purists helping MMA coaches understand their arts and figuring out a proper athletic approach to adapting and transitioning between techniques of the arts whilst still committing to each arts purity. But that’s just me.
Look at what the Dutch taught the Thai’s. They forced them to step up their own game.
Thai’s realised they couldn’t laze around anymore for a couple of rounds feeling each other out and the Anuwats et al were born and showed Thai’s could step it up too.

The Dutch showed them the commitment to each technique thrown with 110% power and much more real sparring at 85% and above was better to take into a fight not to mention the commitment to a boxing stance and technique when throwing heavy leather. As such, Thai’s learned to punch back instead of tip tapping around searching for the big kick, knee or elbow.

25

He’s pulling his kicks still. He may be still early in his training in those vids but I’ve seen guys 20 pounds heavier kick faster and with more open hips. He seems to open up a little more into second and third rounds and his bi-lateral balance and reaction to techniques and counter striking is somewhat more ‘Thai style’ But that doesn’t win fights. Would like to see more footage later

26

Humble…I’m gonna hop on a plane one of these days and buy you a couple rounds…and maybe spar a couple of rounds…haha. Excellent points,my friend.

27

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Humble…I’m gonna hop on a plane one of these days and buy you a couple rounds…and maybe spar a couple of rounds…haha. Excellent points,my friend.[/quote]

I’d say the same, but a) Australia is really far away b) I HATE spiders c) he’d just destroy me. :stuck_out_tongue:

28

[quote]humble wrote:
He’s pulling his kicks still. He may be still early in his training in those vids but I’ve seen guys 20 pounds heavier kick faster and with more open hips. He seems to open up a little more into second and third rounds and his bi-lateral balance and reaction to techniques and counter striking is somewhat more ‘Thai style’ But that doesn’t win fights. Would like to see more footage later[/quote]
What do you think of his hands? Even when he’s throwing combinations with just his hands he drops his hands below his chin when he brings his hands back. He’ll then move around with his hands low and raise them right before throwing again. Not sure how big of a deal that is, but I know if I did that I’d be getting yelled at. Wonder if he’ll do that in the fight.

29

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:
He’s pulling his kicks still. He may be still early in his training in those vids but I’ve seen guys 20 pounds heavier kick faster and with more open hips. He seems to open up a little more into second and third rounds and his bi-lateral balance and reaction to techniques and counter striking is somewhat more ‘Thai style’ But that doesn’t win fights. Would like to see more footage later[/quote]
What do you think of his hands? Even when he’s throwing combinations with just his hands he drops his hands below his chin when he brings his hands back. He’ll then move around with his hands low and raise them right before throwing again. Not sure how big of a deal that is, but I know if I did that I’d be getting yelled at. Wonder if he’ll do that in the fight.[/quote]

Opinions here may differ…

But IMO low hand positioning is not that big of a deal, especially if you’re a particularly athletic fighter with good reaction time. Certain punches are better from a low hand position. Firing a jab from the hip is a good example IMO, not very powerful but hard to see coming and very fast because of the relaxed position.

Not to mention I think it matters even less in the context of MMA, having your hands up around your chin with 4 ounce gloves doesn’t really offer the same protection you can take behind 8 or 10 ounce gloves.

30

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Humble…I’m gonna hop on a plane one of these days and buy you a couple rounds…and maybe spar a couple of rounds…haha. Excellent points,my friend.[/quote]

Lol… done! If I’m ever in that neck of the woods I’ll do the same only I’ll be drinking water lol.

Cheers for the praise.

31

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:
He’s pulling his kicks still. He may be still early in his training in those vids but I’ve seen guys 20 pounds heavier kick faster and with more open hips. He seems to open up a little more into second and third rounds and his bi-lateral balance and reaction to techniques and counter striking is somewhat more ‘Thai style’ But that doesn’t win fights. Would like to see more footage later[/quote]
What do you think of his hands? Even when he’s throwing combinations with just his hands he drops his hands below his chin when he brings his hands back. He’ll then move around with his hands low and raise them right before throwing again. Not sure how big of a deal that is, but I know if I did that I’d be getting yelled at. Wonder if he’ll do that in the fight.[/quote]

I tend to agree with Davo about athleticism playing a part.
Thing I like about GSP is he devotes himself to styles. I think he was trying this with Muay Thai too as the Thais sometimes wave their hands down and swing them down as a cultural acknowledgement of a technique or to show that they aren’t bothered. Can become an ugly habit but I don’t think it matters with GSP because of his intuitiveness and athleticism.

Still, I was trained from a young age to have my hands glued to my face when throwing technique. That flew out the window plenty of times in fights but the rules are the rules and I’m sure GSP has done his fair share of keeping his hands up to know this instinctively.

I think his punching has somewhat taken a few strides back since Freddy but it’s been a while and as mentioned earlier, this could just be a very early video or I wouldn’t be surprised if it was part of the Jackson-Zahabi tactic to confuse Condit’s camp.

I would like to see more commitment to punching/boxing but I’m not his coach and don’t know his intimate strengths and weaknesses so sit from the sidelines pretending lol.

Still, I really want him to win in devastating fashion because he is just a friggen gentleman.

32

Agreed, his jab in the last Koscheck fight was amazing. Not for being an overly devastating jab, but I think it highlighted just how terrible most people’s jabs are in MMA at the moment.

Probably like you touched on humble, it’s people lacking commitment to their strikes. GSP committed to his jab in that fight. Edson Barboza has such devastating kicks because he fully commits to them etc.

33

Mm, Davo has a point about the hand positioning being less of an issue in the octagon. And as you recall, even after coaching with Freddie Roach, GSP’s hands sat low and he was barely touched by Koschek.

And as humble pointed out, we wont be seeing classic Muay Thai balls-to-the-wall-or-nothing type kicks and punches from Condit, so maybe there is method in GSP’s madness.

But I totally agree with your last point humble: GSP is the nicest guy to punch people in a cage for a living.

34

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]humble wrote:
He’s pulling his kicks still. He may be still early in his training in those vids but I’ve seen guys 20 pounds heavier kick faster and with more open hips. He seems to open up a little more into second and third rounds and his bi-lateral balance and reaction to techniques and counter striking is somewhat more ‘Thai style’ But that doesn’t win fights. Would like to see more footage later[/quote]
What do you think of his hands? Even when he’s throwing combinations with just his hands he drops his hands below his chin when he brings his hands back. He’ll then move around with his hands low and raise them right before throwing again. Not sure how big of a deal that is, but I know if I did that I’d be getting yelled at. Wonder if he’ll do that in the fight.[/quote]

Opinions here may differ…

But IMO low hand positioning is not that big of a deal, especially if you’re a particularly athletic fighter with good reaction time. Certain punches are better from a low hand position. Firing a jab from the hip is a good example IMO, not very powerful but hard to see coming and very fast because of the relaxed position.

Not to mention I think it matters even less in the context of MMA, having your hands up around your chin with 4 ounce gloves doesn’t really offer the same protection you can take behind 8 or 10 ounce gloves.[/quote]

It’s not hard to find examples to back up your point about superior athleticism and reaction time making up for a low guard, even in MMA. But if I were GSP’s striking coach I would be on him constantly about keeping them up. Realistically the only way he is going to lose his belt to anyone in the division is by getting caught with a punch and dropped (ala Serra). His wrestling and ground game are such that he can keep the fight on the feet against good grapplers (Fitch, Kos, Shields, Hendricks) and take the better strikers (Alves, Hardy, Penn) down pretty much at will.

You are right that you can’t use the gloves like pillows to absorb punches in MMA like you can in boxing, but having the hands up in the right position can still increase the chances of incidentally blocking or deflecting on incoming punch, decreases the target area/line to the target, and it makes intentional defense of incoming blows to the head much easier.

Also, athleticism and reaction time fade (just ask Roy Jones Jr) much sooner than correct technique does (look at B Hop).

35

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
I always heard Tiger Muay Thai was a terrible place to train unless you were considerably cashed up or a well known fighter.[/quote]

Honestly, it’s the best gym of its kind in Asia at the moment. It has beginner through to advanced classes and a ring just for fighters. All these gyms can be a little expensive, and the real cost is when paying for private sessions. I think to put a private Muay Thai training with Kru Yod into perspective, it is just like having Freddie Roach coach you for equal time in boxing. These guys are that good and Tiger has a lot of champs teaching there.

Yes, you can get swallowed up in Tiger’s beginners class just doing a thousand teeps and crunches and the more boring aspects of the training. But you’ll get chewed up in the Intermediated and Advanced classes if you haven’t got those things down.

Consider that many people in the beginners class are totally new and just having a training holiday. I think most of the complaints you hear about the gym are people who wanted to become ninjas but couldn’t even throw a jab properly.

The beauty of Thailand is that Yod and Langsonkram are accessible to GSP and to ordinary ol’ you and I. But Freddie Roach isn’t someone we can just buy a few sessions with.

I trained elsewher, but I was lucky enough to do some pad work with Kru Yod and I can testify that he is a Muay Thai Jedi. However, I really loved training were I did. Fewer students and a much closer relationship with the trainers as a result.[/quote]

I have a buddy that went to train there. He said it was the most brutal training he’d had, and he fights competitively. He described starting every day with 5 rounds of 5 mins full on. Something like the warm-up was 500 kicks, 500 knees, 500 jabs. Something ridiculous I can’t remember. He said he was so sore for the first week he didn’t even think he could make week 2. I just remember being surprised as hell because the mma gym he goes to here has a reputation for pushing fighters to the limit in terms of training.

36

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
I always heard Tiger Muay Thai was a terrible place to train unless you were considerably cashed up or a well known fighter.[/quote]

Honestly, it’s the best gym of its kind in Asia at the moment. It has beginner through to advanced classes and a ring just for fighters. All these gyms can be a little expensive, and the real cost is when paying for private sessions. I think to put a private Muay Thai training with Kru Yod into perspective, it is just like having Freddie Roach coach you for equal time in boxing. These guys are that good and Tiger has a lot of champs teaching there.

Yes, you can get swallowed up in Tiger’s beginners class just doing a thousand teeps and crunches and the more boring aspects of the training. But you’ll get chewed up in the Intermediated and Advanced classes if you haven’t got those things down.

Consider that many people in the beginners class are totally new and just having a training holiday. I think most of the complaints you hear about the gym are people who wanted to become ninjas but couldn’t even throw a jab properly.

The beauty of Thailand is that Yod and Langsonkram are accessible to GSP and to ordinary ol’ you and I. But Freddie Roach isn’t someone we can just buy a few sessions with.

I trained elsewher, but I was lucky enough to do some pad work with Kru Yod and I can testify that he is a Muay Thai Jedi. However, I really loved training were I did. Fewer students and a much closer relationship with the trainers as a result.[/quote]

I have a buddy that went to train there. He said it was the most brutal training he’d had, and he fights competitively. He described starting every day with 5 rounds of 5 mins full on. Something like the warm-up was 500 kicks, 500 knees, 500 jabs. Something ridiculous I can’t remember. He said he was so sore for the first week he didn’t even think he could make week 2. I just remember being surprised as hell because the mma gym he goes to here has a reputation for pushing fighters to the limit in terms of training.[/quote]

It sounds like he was in the advanced class. Tiger is renowned for its fitness and conditioning regimes. That makes beginner classes vital for people new to martial arts/slightly out of shape, and at the same time boring for people who aren’t aware of how brutal the higher skill classes really are.

Tiger is one of the few gyms that almost insist on your fitness being up to par before allowing you into more advanced training. That’s a good thing. The motivated individuals I met in Thailand that trained there had a blast. I don’t want to sound like I’m advertising Tiger here, but I guess I kinda am.

37

i’m planning on having a trip over there on 2013. =D

My conditioning sucks, although i have some amateur fighters under my belt, i guess i would be mauled over there on advanced class.

38

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
i’m planning on having a trip over there on 2013. =D

My conditioning sucks, although i have some amateur fighters under my belt, i guess i would be mauled over there on advanced class.

[/quote]

Dude, you’re gonna love it. Whatever gym you pick, it’s a sure bet that they know what they’re doing. In Phuket, there are so many great gyms to choose. Tiger, as mentioned, Dragon Muay Thai, Sinbi MT and Rawai MT. There is a newer gym to try out, that’s only been open for a year and a half called Phuket Top Team. Tiger and Top Team offer the best BJJ training. But stick to Muay Thai in Thailand. Don’t miss the opportunity to really experience an authentic Muay Thai life.

My advice is to get yourself at least a little more in shape before leaving. You have the time. The idea is to get to a level of fitness where you aren’t constantly lagging behind the class so that when you get to the technique training (if the trainer does it after fitness) you’re not so gassed you don’t absorb it all. These guys are going to be correcting tiny little details like angle of foot placement, height of shrugged shoulders, twisting of your torso and hips when kicking, how straight the leg you pivot your kick on is. If you Have some fight experience, and are pretty in shape, then you can get cracking on intermediate to advanced training right off the bat.

39

A little more by ESPN about GSP on E:60. It’s got some interesting shots of his more recent training, in the pool, foam rolling, and a very dorky re-enactment of childhood bullying. Low point of the feature is Tito Ortiz. Guy always looks like his head is about to explode.

I’ve got to say, something that resonates in me with GSP is the bullying. Story of my G’damn school life. I remember getting spat on, getting the shit kicked out of me and rotten avocados getting thrown with pin point accuracy at my head. Kids are cruel, and the cruelest tend to track down the dorkiest with shameful consequences. I’m not sure anyone of those dicks would fuck with GSP now and I like to think, as mediocre as I am, that I’d kick seven shades of ‘fuck-yeah’ out of my own school bullies today.

A little anecdote: I was working out, doing hammer curls when this came on the tv in my gym. I got so distracted I upper-cutted myself in the chin with a 30 pound dumbbell. I put the DUMB in dumbbell.

In one shot, when GSP does a ground and pound on the bag, his legs look pretty damn big. Then when he is holding a high kick, they look skinny again. I think it’s an optical illusion with his legs or odd camera angles

40

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
A little more by ESPN about GSP on E:60. It’s got some interesting shots of his more recent training, in the pool, foam rolling, and a very dorky re-enactment of childhood bullying. Low point of the feature is Tito Ortiz. Guy always looks like his head is about to explode.

I’ve got to say, something that resonates in me with GSP is the bullying. Story of my G’damn school life. I remember getting spat on, getting the shit kicked out of me and rotten avocados getting thrown with pin point accuracy at my head. Kids are cruel, and the cruelest tend to track down the dorkiest with shameful consequences. I’m not sure anyone of those dicks would fuck with GSP now and I like to think, as mediocre as I am, that I’d kick seven shades of ‘fuck-yeah’ out of my own school bullies today.

A little anecdote: I was working out, doing hammer curls when this came on the tv in my gym. I got so distracted I upper-cutted myself in the chin with a 30 pound dumbbell. I put the DUMB in dumbbell.

In one shot, when GSP does a ground and pound on the bag, his legs look pretty damn big. Then when he is holding a high kick, they look skinny again. I think it’s an optical illusion with his legs or odd camera angles

[/quote]

Bas Ruten said he used to get picked on in school. So on his reunion, he challenged the bullies that picked on him to a fight. They all declined. lol