Greatest Fighter of All Time?

Training
81

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
OMC wrote:
Erasmus wrote:
Bas Rutten

But then, because I’m dutch

I’d actually back this for MMA or fighting in general. As great as Fedor is…I tink Bas has more tools.

Oisin

Your fucking shitting me. You had better been high as a fucking kite when you posted this.[/quote]

Not really although I understand why you disagree.

I just find it weird that I’ve seen many many fan boys over the last couple of years state that Randy is the only major threat that Fedor will face.

Simply put

Bas>Randy

Anybody that knows the friendship, business partnership and long time training relationship these guys have had should know this.

OMC

82

[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
Joe Grim wrote:
Shout out for Roberto Duran

Great boxer, but not the greatest… not even at his weight class. I think Duran could out-tough anyone… but there were those who could out-box Duran. I know he was the oldest of the Leonard-Duran-Haggler-Hearns era, but still, he was by no stretch the best.[/quote]

I would never say that Duran was the greatest, but as you said, by the time he got into that Leonard-Hearns-Hagler era, he was already past his prime and out of his best weight. The lightweight Duran was an absolute animal, and if you weren’t around to see his fights in the 70s it’s hard to appreciate how good a lightweight he was.

Other than the decision loss to DeJesus, who was also a fine fighter, and which he later avenged by knockout, Duran was unbeaten from 1968 to 1980, when he lost the “no mas” fight. The man was clearly one of the greatest lightweights of all time.

83

Fedor is one of my all time favorites.

The man is a badass bulldog.

Id really like to see him start juicing hardcore, I think he’d kill people on accident.

84

[quote]I would never say that Duran was the greatest, but as you said, by the time he got into that Leonard-Hearns-Hagler era, he was already past his prime and out of his best weight. The lightweight Duran was an absolute animal, and if you weren’t around to see his fights in the 70s it’s hard to appreciate how good a lightweight he was.

Other than the decision loss to DeJesus, who was also a fine fighter, and which he later avenged by knockout, Duran was unbeaten from 1968 to 1980, when he lost the “no mas” fight. The man was clearly one of the greatest lightweights of all time.[/quote]

I have gone on a bit of a warpath here to make sure that Haggler is declared, unanimously, to be the greatest. That was the angle I had in my post. What you have said is true.

85

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
How about Jack Dempsey?

25 first round KO’s, that’s the most ever by anyone to the best of my knowledge.[/quote]

While he wouldn’t be my pick, he was a vicious boxer and a surprisingly good analyst of the sport.

At the peak of his career there was a widespread rumor that his brother used to beat him up…

Just shows you the kind of bullshit people come up with.

86

[quote]OMC wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
OMC wrote:
Erasmus wrote:
Bas Rutten

But then, because I’m dutch

I’d actually back this for MMA or fighting in general. As great as Fedor is…I tink Bas has more tools.

Oisin

Your fucking shitting me. You had better been high as a fucking kite when you posted this.

Not really although I understand why you disagree.

I just find it weird that I’ve seen many many fan boys over the last couple of years state that Randy is the only major threat that Fedor will face.

Simply put

Bas>Randy

Anybody that knows the friendship, business partnership and long time training relationship these guys have had should know this.

OMC

[/quote]

Well if you’re Dutch, you might as well mention Semmy Schiilt. How many people that ever lived could beat him in a kickboxing ring? (Yeah, I know K1 is a joke, just playing devil’s advocate)

87

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
How about Jack Dempsey?

25 first round KO’s, that’s the most ever by anyone to the best of my knowledge.[/quote]

I always forget about him, but he is one of my all time favorites.

A journalist once called him, “187 pounds of unbridled violence”. The brutality in his KO’s of Jess Willard and Louis Firpo are unmatched. Truly one of my all time favorites.

And by the way, Hagler and Hearns are up there too.

For the guys talking boxing, give your top ten list. I’ll work on mine… interested to see responses.

88

I hate the “best fighter pound for pound” crap.

If RJJ, SRR, SRL was to move up to heavyweight, thhe would not have near the speed, or quickness.

If Tyson, Foreman, Marciano were to move down to middle weight, Their punch would be much weaker.

I’m going with Tyson. There has never been a fighter who instilled fear in his opponents like a young, hungry, Cus D’amato trained Tyson did.

I remember watching his fights on ESPN in the mid 80’s as he was coming up. Ali has shit compared to the pure fighting machine of Tyson.

Give me a Tyson circa 1986-87 - and there is not fighter you could put in front of him that would walk out of the ring under his own power.

89

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I hate the “best fighter pound for pound” crap.

If RJJ, SRR, SRL was to move up to heavyweight, thhe would not have near the speed, or quickness.

If Tyson, Foreman, Marciano were to move down to middle weight, Their punch would be much weaker.
[/quote]

That’s understood, but it’s the only way that you can not punish a guy in the rankings for being a smaller fighter. Not everyone is born to fight in the HW division, and though that may be the most glamorous division in boxing because of their size, it’s not the one with the best skill set.

If Sugar Ray was bigger, he’d have owned whomever he fought. Guys like RJJ or Pretty Boy who moved up as much as physically possible and still owned boxing show how great they are (were).

[quote]
I’m going with Tyson. There has never been a fighter who instilled fear in his opponents like a young, hungry, Cus D’amato trained Tyson did.

I remember watching his fights on ESPN in the mid 80’s as he was coming up. Ali has shit compared to the pure fighting machine of Tyson.

Give me a Tyson circa 1986-87 - and there is not fighter you could put in front of him that would walk out of the ring under his own power. [/quote]

I always think that Ali or Marciano would have beaten him. Ali took Foreman’s hardest shots for 13 rounds- there’s no way way Mike would have KO’d him if Foreman didn’t.

But I agree that Tyson in that time period was a destructive force, and I always believe he would have put up a fight against anyone, and would have had a shot.

90

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I always think that Ali or Marciano would have beaten him. Ali took Foreman’s hardest shots for 13 rounds- there’s no way way Mike would have KO’d him if Foreman didn’t.

But I agree that Tyson in that time period was a destructive force, and I always believe he would have put up a fight against anyone, and would have had a shot.[/quote]

I think pound for pound, Ali was probably one of the most over rated fighters in the history of the sport. He did lose the title 4 times, after all. He was a master at getting in his opponents head, though.

Marciano-Tyson would have been a hell of a fight.

91

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
rainjack wrote:

But I agree that Tyson in that time period was a destructive force, and I always believe he would have put up a fight against anyone, and would have had a shot.[/quote]

In my head I’m giving them a bigger ring to fight in. With a bigger ring I think a smaller quicker fighter will have space to move around if necessary, while the bigger guy will still have the power advantage. If the smaller guy can get in hit and get out without getting hit he will be alright. Tyson’s speed at 205 was amazing I actually think he can catch those smaller fighters when they come in to try and attack(why he’s my number 1). I also think RJJ(number 2) and Floyd can get in and get out, but RJ has more power.

Tyson in his prime hit harder than Foreman. Foreman had more weight behind his punch but Tyson had more snap power.

92

Can’t say I agree with you here. If Ali hadn’t been around George Foreman would have cropped up multiple times in this thread… Sonny Liston would also have made an appearence.
You have to remember that Ali fought most of his fights well past his best. And he still managed to defeat a more dangerous collection of heavyweights than has ever surfaced at any other point in history.

He ain’t called “The Greatest” for nothin’.

93

[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
I think pound for pound, Ali was probably one of the most over rated fighters in the history of the sport. He did lose the title 4 times, after all. He was a master at getting in his opponents head, though.

Can’t say I agree with you here. If Ali hadn’t been around George Foreman would have cropped up multiple times in this thread… Sonny Liston would also have made an appearence.
You have to remember that Ali fought most of his fights well past his best.

And he still managed to defeat a more dangerous collection of heavyweights than has ever surfaced at any other point in history.

He ain’t called “The Greatest” for nothin’.[/quote]

That’s kind of what I’m saying. You say Tyson hit harder, but there’s no statistics to prove that. The only one you could use is knockout percentage.

Marciano’s KO percentage is 88%,
George Foreman 87%
Joe Frazier 84%
James Jefferies 83%
Jack Dempsey 79%
Joe Louis 78%
Sonny Liston 78%
Max Baer 74%
Archie Moore 73%

Tyson ain’t even on the list. Did he hit hard? Sure. But there were harder hitters. This was listed about Marciano on this website, Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

"When Marciano was destroying all challengers with his blockbuster assault, the U.S. Testing Co. was asked to measure the power of Rocky’s wallop. Its findings:

“Marciano’s knockout blow packs more explosive energy than an armour-piercing bullet and represents as much energy as would be required to spot lift 1000 pounds one foot off the ground.” Boxing Illustrated December 1963

Now that’s fucking power.

94

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
duffyj2 wrote:
I think pound for pound, Ali was probably one of the most over rated fighters in the history of the sport. He did lose the title 4 times, after all. He was a master at getting in his opponents head, though.

Can’t say I agree with you here. If Ali hadn’t been around George Foreman would have cropped up multiple times in this thread… Sonny Liston would also have made an appearence.
You have to remember that Ali fought most of his fights well past his best.

And he still managed to defeat a more dangerous collection of heavyweights than has ever surfaced at any other point in history.

He ain’t called “The Greatest” for nothin’.

That’s kind of what I’m saying. You say Tyson hit harder, but there’s no statistics to prove that. The only one you could use is knockout percentage.

Marciano’s KO percentage is 88%,
George Foreman 87%
Joe Frazier 84%
James Jefferies 83%
Jack Dempsey 79%
Joe Louis 78%
Sonny Liston 78%
Max Baer 74%
Archie Moore 73%

Tyson ain’t even on the list. Did he hit hard? Sure. But there were harder hitters. This was listed about Marciano on this website, Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

"When Marciano was destroying all challengers with his blockbuster assault, the U.S. Testing Co. was asked to measure the power of Rocky’s wallop. Its findings:

“Marciano’s knockout blow packs more explosive energy than an armour-piercing bullet and represents as much energy as would be required to spot lift 1000 pounds one foot off the ground.” Boxing Illustrated December 1963

Now that’s fucking power.
[/quote]

You are taking knockout %'s from entire careers. That’s quite misleading.

I already stated that I am talking about the early Tyson. The Cus D’Amato-trained Tyson. If you take his record from the time he started through 1989 - which I think was the time frame I stated - Tyson had an 86.5% KO rate. Only 4 fights went the distance.

If you want to don’t want to do the math, his 21-year career KO% is 88%.

I don’t know where you got your list, or how the percentages were calculated, but based on my rudimentary knowledge of math, that puts my guy tied with Marciano.

Like I said - a Marciano v. Tyson fight would be one fo the ages.

95

ME IN 5 YEARS…besides that srr

96

[quote]rainjack wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
duffyj2 wrote:
I think pound for pound, Ali was probably one of the most over rated fighters in the history of the sport. He did lose the title 4 times, after all. He was a master at getting in his opponents head, though.

Can’t say I agree with you here. If Ali hadn’t been around George Foreman would have cropped up multiple times in this thread… Sonny Liston would also have made an appearence.
You have to remember that Ali fought most of his fights well past his best.

And he still managed to defeat a more dangerous collection of heavyweights than has ever surfaced at any other point in history.

He ain’t called “The Greatest” for nothin’.

That’s kind of what I’m saying. You say Tyson hit harder, but there’s no statistics to prove that. The only one you could use is knockout percentage.

Marciano’s KO percentage is 88%,
George Foreman 87%
Joe Frazier 84%
James Jefferies 83%
Jack Dempsey 79%
Joe Louis 78%
Sonny Liston 78%
Max Baer 74%
Archie Moore 73%

Tyson ain’t even on the list. Did he hit hard? Sure. But there were harder hitters. This was listed about Marciano on this website, Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos

"When Marciano was destroying all challengers with his blockbuster assault, the U.S. Testing Co. was asked to measure the power of Rocky’s wallop. Its findings:

“Marciano’s knockout blow packs more explosive energy than an armour-piercing bullet and represents as much energy as would be required to spot lift 1000 pounds one foot off the ground.” Boxing Illustrated December 1963

Now that’s fucking power.

You are taking knockout %'s from entire careers. That’s quite misleading.

I already stated that I am talking about the early Tyson. The Cus D’Amato-trained Tyson. If you take his record from the time he started through 1989 - which I think was the time frame I stated - Tyson had an 86.5% KO rate. Only 4 fights went the distance.

If you want to don’t want to do the math, his 21-year career KO% is 88%.

I don’t know where you got your list, or how the percentages were calculated, but based on my rudimentary knowledge of math, that puts my guy tied with Marciano.

Like I said - a Marciano v. Tyson fight would be one fo the ages.

[/quote]

The site is on there. Forget how I found it but those numbers are reliable.

I never said it wouldn’t be. It would be a brawl… definitely very different styles.

I’d put my money on Rock in sixth though, where the KO would come after a Hagler-Hearns style bang out.

97

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I hate the “best fighter pound for pound” crap.

If RJJ, SRR, SRL was to move up to heavyweight, thhe would not have near the speed, or quickness.

If Tyson, Foreman, Marciano were to move down to middle weight, Their punch would be much weaker.

That’s understood, but it’s the only way that you can not punish a guy in the rankings for being a smaller fighter. Not everyone is born to fight in the HW division, and though that may be the most glamorous division in boxing because of their size, it’s not the one with the best skill set.

If Sugar Ray was bigger, he’d have owned whomever he fought. Guys like RJJ or Pretty Boy who moved up as much as physically possible and still owned boxing show how great they are (were).

I’m going with Tyson. There has never been a fighter who instilled fear in his opponents like a young, hungry, Cus D’amato trained Tyson did.

I remember watching his fights on ESPN in the mid 80’s as he was coming up. Ali has shit compared to the pure fighting machine of Tyson.

Give me a Tyson circa 1986-87 - and there is not fighter you could put in front of him that would walk out of the ring under his own power.

I always think that Ali or Marciano would have beaten him. Ali took Foreman’s hardest shots for 13 rounds- there’s no way way Mike would have KO’d him if Foreman didn’t.

But I agree that Tyson in that time period was a destructive force, and I always believe he would have put up a fight against anyone, and would have had a shot.[/quote]

Tyson in his prime fought the worst tomato cans I have ever seen. They made the guys Rocky fought while he was ducking Clubber Lang look like world champions.

98

for Irish: my top ten greatest BOXERS of all time,in no particular order, that would be too hard.

sugar ray robinson,

archie moore

joe louis,

rocky marciano

marvin hagler

jake lamotta

casious clay

sandy saddler

willy pep

jack johnson

instead of writing a four page post, anybody who wants to question any of my pics, I CHALLENGE TO A FIGHT!!!

lol, jk.

if anybody(probably nobody) wants any explanation of any of these pics, i will address individually.

99

Gene Tunney…

100

Chris Clugston