[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
Its a shame that your “how do you train” thread is in the TCell Hungry, it would be three times as long if it was public.[/quote]
LOL!!!
And three times as filled with troll posts, posts about vaginas, a whole tangent debate about some fat chick on a talk show or whether Lady Ga Ga is an android all ending with skinny little 140lb’ers screaming about how squats are bad because they read it somewhere.
Yeah, I think I like it just where it is.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
Its a shame that your “how do you train” thread is in the TCell Hungry, it would be three times as long if it was public.[/quote]
LOL!!!
And three times as filled with troll posts, posts about vaginas, a whole tangent debate about some fat chick on a talk show or whether Lady Ga Ga is an android all ending with skinny little 140lb’ers screaming about how squats are bad because they read it somewhere.
Yeah, I think I like it just where it is.[/quote]
X speaks the truth. Sometimes T-Nation is great for training tips, sometimes it’s great for chubby chasing. kind of a flip of the coin with some of these threads.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
Its a shame that your “how do you train” thread is in the TCell Hungry, it would be three times as long if it was public. Its the back im interested in so sumos and deads aside what is your rep range for back exercises?? Do you switch high rep and low rep for rows, rack chins, pullups etc? How much attention do you give the traps?[/quote]
You could say I split my back into three “sections” of training: Lower back, thickness, and width…pretty simple. Yes, they overlap into one another to a point; for example, BB Rows with 2.5x bodyweight are OBVIOUSLY gonna work lower back as well as thickness…pendlay rows work both thickness and width. But for the sake of simplicity, I’ll assume everyone has a basic understanding about avoiding training problems because of such things.
Lower back: Heavy ass deadlift variations. I also attribute my spinal erectors to lots of beltless squatting. FWIW, I was able to squat 405 and deadlift 585 before I used a belt on those lifts (yes, I starting using a belt on squats before deadlifts). I focused on getting a very strong deadlift, whatever that took. Stiff-legged DLs, sumo DLs, rack pulls, Romanian DLs…whatever makes your deadlift go up will likely strengthen your lower back. Make sense?
Thickness: Pretty much entirely rowing movements. For thickness movements, my focus is lifting progressively heavier weights, with my main 2 concerns being A) Feeling the exercise in the intended muscle group(s) (straps can help a lot with this), and B) Not compromising spine safety…learn to do the valsalva maneuver properly, and master that shit. It just may save your spine. If you’re interested in my form on any rowing exercises, let me know and I’ll see what I can do. BB Rows, Kroc (DB) Rows, Pendlay Rows, Cable Rows, T-bar Rows…they’re all fair game.
Width: For width movements, I focus on FEEL. I only increase weight used if I can still get an amazing pump by doing so. If my reps are too low to get a proper lat pump, I reduce weight until I can achieve that. Most people can’t use loose form on width exercises and still feel it in their lats primarily, which often turns the exercise into a thickness or biceps movement. Rack Chins, Partial ROM pullups, Pendlay Rows (<<<these are the only exception to the strict form thing), and lat pulldowns with a neutral grip are where it’s at here.
LOL[/quote]
Awesome. Thanks for the info Hungry! My back training definitely incorporates movements that target the whole musculature of the back, a typical session would be warming up with bw chins, 1 arm db rows, bb rows, weighted pullups then partial deads. I have a seperate day for sumos and conv deads which I pair with hamstrings.
Im assuming the pendlay rows are looser form to save the lower back through the rom? Quite new to this movement and my numbers are way off my bb row despite using looser form. I saw a video of you bb row some obscene weight with a sumo stance, it helped me lock in the movement nicely when I tried it.
Basically for looser form I imagine the spinal erector strength is key? Shifting big weight in a rowing motion seems to be the nuts for thickness. For kroc rows do you loosen form to increase your rep range? They incinerate my back if I force this movement, I have used rest pause to really increase my numbers with a particular weight.
Back training in general is something I just love above all else, there is nothing more impressive than a monstrous back. Thanks again, its always interesting to see your numbers balloon in the PR thread!
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]actionboy wrote:
i dont know if anyone has said this in this particular thread yet but H4M, i wish i was you.[/quote]
Awww <3
Yknow, I hear there’s this real cheap motel just a few interwebz away…[/quote]
wish i was you, not wish i was with you. although, in some tribes young boys did drink the semen of larger men for strength…shoot me a pm with the address of this motel…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
Its a shame that your “how do you train” thread is in the TCell Hungry, it would be three times as long if it was public.[/quote]
LOL!!!
And three times as filled with troll posts, posts about vaginas, a whole tangent debate about some fat chick on a talk show or whether Lady Ga Ga is an android all ending with skinny little 140lb’ers screaming about how squats are bad because they read it somewhere.
Yeah, I think I like it just where it is.[/quote]
Fair enough.
The info in most of those threads though is first class. Its just a shame that the minority can ruin the opportunity for some of us who do train seriously and like the chance to learn from the elite.
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
Its a shame that your “how do you train” thread is in the TCell Hungry, it would be three times as long if it was public. Its the back im interested in so sumos and deads aside what is your rep range for back exercises?? Do you switch high rep and low rep for rows, rack chins, pullups etc? How much attention do you give the traps?[/quote]
You could say I split my back into three “sections” of training: Lower back, thickness, and width…pretty simple. Yes, they overlap into one another to a point; for example, BB Rows with 2.5x bodyweight are OBVIOUSLY gonna work lower back as well as thickness…pendlay rows work both thickness and width. But for the sake of simplicity, I’ll assume everyone has a basic understanding about avoiding training problems because of such things.
Lower back: Heavy ass deadlift variations. I also attribute my spinal erectors to lots of beltless squatting. FWIW, I was able to squat 405 and deadlift 585 before I used a belt on those lifts (yes, I starting using a belt on squats before deadlifts). I focused on getting a very strong deadlift, whatever that took. Stiff-legged DLs, sumo DLs, rack pulls, Romanian DLs…whatever makes your deadlift go up will likely strengthen your lower back. Make sense?
Thickness: Pretty much entirely rowing movements. For thickness movements, my focus is lifting progressively heavier weights, with my main 2 concerns being A) Feeling the exercise in the intended muscle group(s) (straps can help a lot with this), and B) Not compromising spine safety…learn to do the valsalva maneuver properly, and master that shit. It just may save your spine. If you’re interested in my form on any rowing exercises, let me know and I’ll see what I can do. BB Rows, Kroc (DB) Rows, Pendlay Rows, Cable Rows, T-bar Rows…they’re all fair game.
Width: For width movements, I focus on FEEL. I only increase weight used if I can still get an amazing pump by doing so. If my reps are too low to get a proper lat pump, I reduce weight until I can achieve that. Most people can’t use loose form on width exercises and still feel it in their lats primarily, which often turns the exercise into a thickness or biceps movement. Rack Chins, Partial ROM pullups, Pendlay Rows (<<<these are the only exception to the strict form thing), and lat pulldowns with a neutral grip are where it’s at here.
LOL[/quote]
Awesome. Thanks for the info Hungry! My back training definitely incorporates movements that target the whole musculature of the back, a typical session would be warming up with bw chins, 1 arm db rows, bb rows, weighted pullups then partial deads. I have a seperate day for sumos and conv deads which I pair with hamstrings.
Im assuming the pendlay rows are looser form to save the lower back through the rom? Quite new to this movement and my numbers are way off my bb row despite using looser form. I saw a video of you bb row some obscene weight with a sumo stance, it helped me lock in the movement nicely when I tried it.
Basically for looser form I imagine the spinal erector strength is key? Shifting big weight in a rowing motion seems to be the nuts for thickness. For kroc rows do you loosen form to increase your rep range? They incinerate my back if I force this movement, I have used rest pause to really increase my numbers with a particular weight.
Back training in general is something I just love above all else, there is nothing more impressive than a monstrous back. Thanks again, its always interesting to see your numbers balloon in the PR thread!
[/quote]
As far as your back training goes, don’t get TOO caught up in exactly HOW you do it (rep ranges, frequency, volume, number of working sets, etc), be mostly concerned with simply getting stronger at those movements. If that means you do 1 working set of BB Rows 2x per week, pendlay rows 1x per week with 3 working sets, rack chins 3 working sets 3x per week, or whatever, go for it. As long as your back training is well rounded in the 3 areas, and you are making steady progress in all three of them, you’ll be fine.
For pendlay rows, I just like how they feel in the rhomboids and lats when I do heavier weight with body english, as opposed to light weight and perfect form. Much like BB Rows, when most people start doing them, tight form is a good thing, but as you move up in weight, that becomes less possible.
And yes, I am a big believer in moving big weights with your rhomboids/traps is the best way to strengthen them FOR ME. Dorian Yates seems to disagree, and I’m not going to argue with his results obviously. Like anything in bodybuilding or powerlifting, it’s all about finding what has worked for other people, giving it a try, and seeing which methods are best for you.
I think some of the wang wavers in this thread and on T-Nation need to get a fucking room so they can compare dick sizes without bothering people who really want to learn and become bigger, because that’s all I’ve seen so far in this thread
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]dles91 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]dles91 wrote:
Haven’t there been at least 20+ articles on this site that have basically stated that everyone is different? There’s GVT, 5/3/1, Starting Strength, and a shit load of other workouts that are written by people who know what their talking about. You know what they all have in common? They all tell you to go to the gym, and they are all different. Who gives a crap if a guy is in there for 3 hours. If your there for 1 hour and your spent, leave. Doesn’t mean he’s frigin sweet, just means thats what he does.
If one philosophy was better than the rest, why would people still be arguing.[/quote]
Are you insinuating that no training philosophy is superior to any other training philosophy?[/quote]
Exactly… except yours. Yours is far superior.[/quote]
That was actually a 100% serious question…if there was veiled sarcasm in your statement, I sure as hell missed it.[/quote]
Lol yes, I was insinuating that no training philosophy is superior to any other to a certain extent. The bit about yours was a joke. Ya crossfit isn’t going to get you huge. But I meant the various bodybuilding philosophies, conditioning, strength, etc. all have there perks and each individual would benefit from different ones. I personally dont like it when I see people following a program WORD for WORD. Programs are guidelines. I understand if your new to lifting and for the first 1 to two years following that. But if you feel like you changing your program slightly would benefit you, do it. After doing 5/3/1 for a bit, my lifts went up. But I’m so young that honestly 3 days later I felt really fresh and felt like I was wasting time. I switched to doing 5/3/1 4 days a week and pairing random lifts with each other. So I’d be hitting both muscle groups twice a week. Lifts went way up.
All these authors do know what their talking about, but they are prescribing a solution that works for almost everyone. Tailoring something to yourself makes it just that much better.
And saying that any program is better than others is bull crap. My mentor from my gym goes there for around 2 1/2 to 3 hours 5 days a week and hes 185 at 5’7. Man is a machine. If I was in the gym longer than an hour I wouldn’t be making any progress.
[quote]dles91 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]dles91 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]dles91 wrote:
Haven’t there been at least 20+ articles on this site that have basically stated that everyone is different? There’s GVT, 5/3/1, Starting Strength, and a shit load of other workouts that are written by people who know what their talking about. You know what they all have in common? They all tell you to go to the gym, and they are all different. Who gives a crap if a guy is in there for 3 hours. If your there for 1 hour and your spent, leave. Doesn’t mean he’s frigin sweet, just means thats what he does.
If one philosophy was better than the rest, why would people still be arguing.[/quote]
Are you insinuating that no training philosophy is superior to any other training philosophy?[/quote]
Exactly… except yours. Yours is far superior.[/quote]
That was actually a 100% serious question…if there was veiled sarcasm in your statement, I sure as hell missed it.[/quote]
Lol yes, I was insinuating that no training philosophy is superior to any other to a certain extent. The bit about yours was a joke. Ya crossfit isn’t going to get you huge. But I meant the various bodybuilding philosophies, conditioning, strength, etc. all have there perks and each individual would benefit from different ones. I personally dont like it when I see people following a program WORD for WORD. Programs are guidelines. I understand if your new to lifting and for the first 1 to two years following that. But if you feel like you changing your program slightly would benefit you, do it. After doing 5/3/1 for a bit, my lifts went up. But I’m so young that honestly 3 days later I felt really fresh and felt like I was wasting time. I switched to doing 5/3/1 4 days a week and pairing random lifts with each other. So I’d be hitting both muscle groups twice a week. Lifts went way up.
All these authors do know what their talking about, but they are prescribing a solution that works for almost everyone. Tailoring something to yourself makes it just that much better.
And saying that any program is better than others is bull crap. My mentor from my gym goes there for around 2 1/2 to 3 hours 5 days a week and hes 185 at 5’7. Man is a machine. If I was in the gym longer than an hour I wouldn’t be making any progress.[/quote]
I take it from your posts you are in the beginner stages…this 5’7 185 lbs guy, what has he accomplished in the lifting world? Has he competed in PLing or BBing?
To say that no program is superior to another is foolish. Just read the “body by science” thread in this very forum. That system has yet to produce any high level competitors, so clearly it IS inferior to, say, DC training, which has produced some beastly dudes.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]dles91 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]dles91 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]dles91 wrote:
Haven’t there been at least 20+ articles on this site that have basically stated that everyone is different? There’s GVT, 5/3/1, Starting Strength, and a shit load of other workouts that are written by people who know what their talking about. You know what they all have in common? They all tell you to go to the gym, and they are all different. Who gives a crap if a guy is in there for 3 hours. If your there for 1 hour and your spent, leave. Doesn’t mean he’s frigin sweet, just means thats what he does.
If one philosophy was better than the rest, why would people still be arguing.[/quote]
Are you insinuating that no training philosophy is superior to any other training philosophy?[/quote]
Exactly… except yours. Yours is far superior.[/quote]
That was actually a 100% serious question…if there was veiled sarcasm in your statement, I sure as hell missed it.[/quote]
Lol yes, I was insinuating that no training philosophy is superior to any other to a certain extent. The bit about yours was a joke. Ya crossfit isn’t going to get you huge. But I meant the various bodybuilding philosophies, conditioning, strength, etc. all have there perks and each individual would benefit from different ones. I personally dont like it when I see people following a program WORD for WORD. Programs are guidelines. I understand if your new to lifting and for the first 1 to two years following that. But if you feel like you changing your program slightly would benefit you, do it. After doing 5/3/1 for a bit, my lifts went up. But I’m so young that honestly 3 days later I felt really fresh and felt like I was wasting time. I switched to doing 5/3/1 4 days a week and pairing random lifts with each other. So I’d be hitting both muscle groups twice a week. Lifts went way up.
All these authors do know what their talking about, but they are prescribing a solution that works for almost everyone. Tailoring something to yourself makes it just that much better.
And saying that any program is better than others is bull crap. My mentor from my gym goes there for around 2 1/2 to 3 hours 5 days a week and hes 185 at 5’7. Man is a machine. If I was in the gym longer than an hour I wouldn’t be making any progress.[/quote]
I take it from your posts you are in the beginner stages…this 5’7 185 lbs guy, what has he accomplished in the lifting world? Has he competed in PLing or BBing?
To say that no program is superior to another is foolish. Just read the “body by science” thread in this very forum. That system has yet to produce any high level competitors, so clearly it IS inferior to, say, DC training, which has produced some beastly dudes. [/quote]
Lol I found it funny that he used an example of a guy 15+ pounds lighter than you at the same height to attempt to make a point.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
[quote]Hyena wrote:
and you’re right. I don’t understand why anybody thought my post was arrogant. Its not like I came on and said “OMG your legs are so fucking small! HAHAHA Man I sure am glad that I’m bigger than you, and my program is 100% better in every way.” .[/quote]
You actually do this every chance you get when talking to someone smaller than you.[/quote]
Guess that’s not too often then…lolz
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]dles91 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]dles91 wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
[quote]dles91 wrote:
Haven’t there been at least 20+ articles on this site that have basically stated that everyone is different? There’s GVT, 5/3/1, Starting Strength, and a shit load of other workouts that are written by people who know what their talking about. You know what they all have in common? They all tell you to go to the gym, and they are all different. Who gives a crap if a guy is in there for 3 hours. If your there for 1 hour and your spent, leave. Doesn’t mean he’s frigin sweet, just means thats what he does.
If one philosophy was better than the rest, why would people still be arguing.[/quote]
Are you insinuating that no training philosophy is superior to any other training philosophy?[/quote]
Exactly… except yours. Yours is far superior.[/quote]
That was actually a 100% serious question…if there was veiled sarcasm in your statement, I sure as hell missed it.[/quote]
Lol yes, I was insinuating that no training philosophy is superior to any other to a certain extent. The bit about yours was a joke. Ya crossfit isn’t going to get you huge. But I meant the various bodybuilding philosophies, conditioning, strength, etc. all have there perks and each individual would benefit from different ones. I personally dont like it when I see people following a program WORD for WORD. Programs are guidelines. I understand if your new to lifting and for the first 1 to two years following that. But if you feel like you changing your program slightly would benefit you, do it. After doing 5/3/1 for a bit, my lifts went up. But I’m so young that honestly 3 days later I felt really fresh and felt like I was wasting time. I switched to doing 5/3/1 4 days a week and pairing random lifts with each other. So I’d be hitting both muscle groups twice a week. Lifts went way up.
All these authors do know what their talking about, but they are prescribing a solution that works for almost everyone. Tailoring something to yourself makes it just that much better.
And saying that any program is better than others is bull crap. My mentor from my gym goes there for around 2 1/2 to 3 hours 5 days a week and hes 185 at 5’7. Man is a machine. If I was in the gym longer than an hour I wouldn’t be making any progress.[/quote]
I take it from your posts you are in the beginner stages…this 5’7 185 lbs guy, what has he accomplished in the lifting world? Has he competed in PLing or BBing?
To say that no program is superior to another is foolish. Just read the “body by science” thread in this very forum. That system has yet to produce any high level competitors, so clearly it IS inferior to, say, DC training, which has produced some beastly dudes. [/quote]
Lol I found it funny that he used an example of a guy 15+ pounds lighter than you at the same height to attempt to make a point. [/quote]
I did too…but I’m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt, on the SLIGHT chance the guy does, in fact, lift some impressive weights. Not likely, but once in a while shit happens…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
Its a shame that your “how do you train” thread is in the TCell Hungry, it would be three times as long if it was public.[/quote]
LOL!!!
And three times as filled with troll posts, posts about vaginas, a whole tangent debate about some fat chick on a talk show or whether Lady Ga Ga is an android all ending with skinny little 140lb’ers screaming about how squats are bad because they read it somewhere.
Yeah, I think I like it just where it is.[/quote]
Maybe. Cephalic_Carnage’s thread was just fine, as is Synergy’s.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
Its a shame that your “how do you train” thread is in the TCell Hungry, it would be three times as long if it was public.[/quote]
LOL!!!
And three times as filled with troll posts, posts about vaginas, a whole tangent debate about some fat chick on a talk show or whether Lady Ga Ga is an android all ending with skinny little 140lb’ers screaming about how squats are bad because they read it somewhere.
Yeah, I think I like it just where it is.[/quote]
Maybe. Cephalic_Carnage’s thread was just fine, as is Synergy’s.[/quote]
Well… now I know where to post all my lady gaga comments…
He’s actually competed in 3 BB competitions. First one he placed 5th out of 9. 2nd he place 3rd out of 6 and the last one he placed 3rd out of 11. He isn’t in anyway big but he is cut as hell at his weight. The 185 is his weight around competition, not what he walks around at. I have worked out with him multiple times, (and I can tell you what he does DOES NOT work for me) and the guy has taught me almost everything I know about nutrition and exercize. Mind you I know 139 (now) isnt big for a guy 5’8 at all. But I have worked out (wrestling) for 2 years. Obviously can’t gain much weight, I wrestled at 112. Now I’m 139 about 5 months after starting with him. I didn’t have much of the “noobie” gains since i had been lifting for some time, but I never ate enough AT ALL. I never wanted to gain weight since I wrestled.
I wasn’t saying that all philosophies are equal. Obviously someone who says going into the gym and doing circuit training and sprints will get you huge would be a load of crap. All I was trying to say is that there are a lot of programs out there all saying they will do the same thing. And they are all different, and people would benefit from some more than others.
If I went out and did Dog crap training, it wouldn’t do shit. I’m way to weak and small to actually get huge benefits from doing that kind of training. And I don’t have the experience to pull it off either.
I think you guys took out of context what I was trying to say. Earlier in the post people were like, YOUR IN THERE FOR 3 HOURS?! You call an hour a workout?! All I was trying to say is, to each there own.
[quote]dles91 wrote:
And I don’t have the experience to pull it off either.
[/quote]
Exactly. I honestly believe you have good intentions man, but in your position, it’s really best FOR YOU and other beginners (don’t take offense, but you are, in fact, a beginner to lifting) to give your opinion on things like how to build big legs when some of the posters here have lower bodies that weigh as much as your entire body.
[quote]
All I was trying to say is, to each there own.[/quote]
This much is 100% true. Once again, leave it to bigger guys who have experience and the results to back it up to hand out training advise. No need to re-invent the wheel. I, for one, don’t bash 2-3 hour training sessions…IF THEY’RE WORKING! Some people can do them and make progress for their entire lives, others cannot. If a guy your size, for example, vehemently defends this method, it doesn’t do much good. When Akuma mentions he trains like that, it carries more weight. If you get stuck at a certain strength/development level training as such, then refusing to change your methods would be fucking retarded. Same goes for the anyone else doing something that isn’t working for them.
Well I never did give out any advice other than saying everyone’s got their opinnions. I was just trying to tell people to shut up with their thoughts about the fact that they got the way they did with X training, it HAS to work for you too, right?!
Because honestly, sean, the guy i’m talking about, did that. I came every day for 2 months to workout with him. His workouts were so frigin long and high volume, I got conditioned but I was tired, and never recovered from the last workout. He was gettin big while I was getting tired and not recovering enough.
Never was trying to tell people what to do, I’d rather you guys tell me what to do. If you guys wanna go to my training log and give advice I’d REALLY appreciate it. Just sayin people need to shut up with their attitudes that just because it worked for them, it will be best for you.
And never saying you did, just other people were.
I simply take issue with you saying “no training philosophy is superior to any other”. Then you backpedaled, saying you meant no “bodybuilding” training philosophy is superior to any other. Well now, you have to decide which philosophies are specifically geared towards BBers. Even many crossfitters claim that CFing without steroids is superior to split training without steroids for sheer muscle mass…see what I mean? Ask Layne Norton what he thinks of that statement. It’s easy for the waters to get real cloudy when you say things like that.
Ok, I see what your saying… I guess I’d make the assumption that the people on this site would be educated enough to know that a basic split training with a good food intake is going to get you more hypotrophy then crossfit.
But then again, to assume people are educated on this site would be a far fetched statement.
You get my intentions though, although I may have said them incorrectly.
Edit:
MAIN POINT - Get people’s advice then figure out what works best for you.
Yes, I do get your intentions. But those people that AREN’T educated, which are quite common, can be easily confused when things aren’t made clear. We can let this die now lol.