God Created...................

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
141

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
pookie wrote:

Even without PNN camera crews around, you’d think that some of his contemporaries would have made a note of it.

Some of them did.

Ever read first and second Peter? He was a “contemporary” and he made note of it.

Hold on let me do it for you oh great Christ denier.

pookie: “No no, you can’t ever quote anything from the Bible. I will not accept anyones work who actually walked with Christ, that would be…um somehow unfair…yeat that’s it. For example, how do I know Peter lived? Huh? See…it’s all a lie I tell you it is …it is…”

Don’t be stupid. The Bible is the source document for the myth of Jesus. Of course you can’t use it to justify itself.

You’ve been arguing about all those secular sources confirming the existence of Jesus. Now you’re back on the Bible?

Not much support for ol’Jeebus outside the Big Book, is it?
[/quote]

Using a letter written by his close associate “Peter” is not good enough for you because it is included with other letters from those who knew him.

That is essentially what you are stating, and it’s ludicrous!

Your hate is overruling your good sense…again.

142

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Jesus is even written about in the Jewish Talmud of all things![/quote]

A big religious book supporting another big religious book?!?! Who woulda thunk it?

Why don’t you drag the Koran into the discussion too and we can have a big “Old Middle Eastern Faiths” BBQ!

143

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
pookie wrote:

In one single paragraph, Josephus conveniently confirms the whole story. Astonishing, isn’t it? You won’t be surprised to learn that many scholars consider the whole paragraph quite suspect, and some claim it is an outright forgery.

And many consider it to be very real. And these scholars are well aware of his writing style etc.

Keep reaching pookie…

Is that your new quoting style? Pull stuff out of context before replying?

I see you conveniently omitted my point about Origen never quoting that paragraph of Josephus. No one ever even noticing that paragraph until the 4th century A.D.

But hey, keep hitting that straw man.
[/quote]

You have claimed that “some” scholars do not accept Jospehus writings on Christ, and I understand that.

However, there are many scholars who do accept Jospehus writings on Christ as authentic.

144

By the way, Josephus also wrote about John the Baptist and James the brother of Jesus!

There are no scholars to my knowledge who refute this. Do you think that John the Baptist lived or did a bunch of people make him up as well so that they could be ridiculed and tortured?

Those folks must not understand why and when to lie properly huh pookie?

Good thing they never wrote a book about it:

“Learn to lie and get tormented, ridiculed and killed…for fun and profit.”

LOL

145

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
pookie wrote:

Even without PNN camera crews around, you’d think that some of his contemporaries would have made a note of it.

Some of them did.

Ever read first and second Peter? He was a “contemporary” and he made note of it.

Hold on let me do it for you oh great Christ denier.

pookie: “No no, you can’t ever quote anything from the Bible. I will not accept anyones work who actually walked with Christ, that would be…um somehow unfair…yeat that’s it. For example, how do I know Peter lived? Huh? See…it’s all a lie I tell you it is …it is…”

Don’t be stupid. The Bible is the source document for the myth of Jesus. Of course you can’t use it to justify itself.

You’ve been arguing about all those secular sources confirming the existence of Jesus. Now you’re back on the Bible?

Not much support for ol’Jeebus outside the Big Book, is it?
[/quote]

That is an odd standard that you have in reality.

If some of your closest followers write about you, two thousand years later some guy on something called the Internet will not allow them to be used as evidence that you existed.

(It must all be part of a huge diabolical lie…of course you have never given me ONE reason why thousands of people would first make up a lie and then die for it. Don’t people usually lie to benefit in some way?..Think about that one.)

Therefore, raising the proof standard of your actual existance up up up…We now need complete strangers (those who never knew you) to write about you. Keep in mind you might not have been all that famous at the time, but that doesn’t matter right?

LOL

Yea that makes sense…about as much sense as the rest of your tomfoolery. (I like that word)

146

[quote]ZEB wrote:
You see 2000 years ago they didn’t have that. And on top of that NO ONE who was not somehow politically, acedemically, militarily or financially (or in some way) successful was written about.

[/quote]

what about jesus? he fiiled the above description.how many wars have been fought in his name? how many have to die before your name will carry on? how many lessons have been taught about “him”? how much money has been made by others using “his” name to their advantage? funny he sure fits that description of what it takes to have your name remebered. money,sorrow, murder, joy, all can be traced to “him”. i find it hard to believe that just because his name exists in history, he is god. hitler’s name will be remebered, how is that any different. at least there are not as many deaths attached to hitlers legacy.

p.s. fuck hitler, and all those who take the life of innocent people. so please don’t go saying i sympathize with that piece of shit.

147

[quote]mazilla wrote:
ZEB wrote:
You see 2000 years ago they didn’t have that. And on top of that NO ONE who was not somehow politically, acedemically, militarily or financially (or in some way) successful was written about.

what about jesus? he fiiled the above description.how many wars have been fought in his name? how many have to die before your name will carry on? how many lessons have been taught about “him”? how much money has been made by others using “his” name to their advantage? funny he sure fits that description of what it takes to have your name remebered. money,sorrow, murder, joy, all can be traced to “him”. i find it hard to believe that just because his name exists in history, he is god. hitler’s name will be remebered, how is that any different. at least there are not as many deaths attached to hitlers legacy.

p.s. fuck hitler, and all those who take the life of innocent people. so please don’t go saying i sympathize with that piece of shit.[/quote]

Stop symathizing with Hitler!

Ha ha just kidding pal…I had to do it sorry.

Yes, of course Jesus Christ existed and glad to hear you admit it. Now what I would like you to do is think about who he was and “why” he existed. Try to think outside the box of traditional closed minded atheisim.

Your Friend,

Zeb

148

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Jesus is even written about in the Jewish Talmud of all things!

A big religious book supporting another big religious book?!?! Who woulda thunk it?

Why don’t you drag the Koran into the discussion too and we can have a big “Old Middle Eastern Faiths” BBQ!
[/quote]

Now you may top this as things move on (as I hope they do). But so far this is your most foolish statement!

The Jews at that time did not want any part of Jesu Christ! Christ was a rebel and a trouble maker in their eyes.

Stop and think logically for a moment. If you were in charge of the Jews Waaaaayyyy back then why would YOU even bother to mention the name of a man who either was a rebel and trouble maker as I stated, or did not even exist as you seem to think?

Again, how do they GAIN by making this up? Or how do they gain by promoting someone who gave them such a difficult time locally?

Answer: THEY DON’T

THINK

149

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Using a letter written by his close associate “Peter” is not good enough for you because it is included with other letters from those who knew him.[/quote]

Why is it so hard to find even a single secular source of support?

You keep giving me Christians witnessing, Church documents and secular forgeries. How is it that other famous people without churches or followers managed to leave abundant traces, but Jesus left none at all?

Why is it that all the available evidence supports a theory of a fabricated myth begun in the 1st century AD? And it not only supports it, it supports it better than the alternative of having a real, flesh and blood Jesus walking around.

150

[quote]pookie wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
pookie wrote:
FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
pookie wrote:

What are your intentions for people who follow the Bible?

Individually, or as a group?

Both

For the individuals part, could you supply me with a list of all followers of the Bible.

Alphabetically would be nice.

Thanks.

[/quote]

LMAO!

151

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And many consider it to be very real. And these scholars are well aware of his writing style etc.

Keep reaching pookie…[/quote]

His writing style? The whole paragraph is 127 words. How hard really was it to “blend it in” with the rest?

I’m sure those “many” are, like you, convinced apriori of the validity of the text. There isn’t a better target for forgery than the complicit victim.

152

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Again, how do they GAIN by making this up? Or how do they gain by promoting someone who gave them such a difficult time locally?

Answer: THEY DON’T

THINK
[/quote]

First of all, you need to establish that it really was your Jesus they’re talking about. It’s not like it was an uncommon name at the time. They mention a Jesus who’s a bastard son of an adulterous whore. Is he yours?

Everyone acts as if there’s been only one Jesus in the whole history of the world. Shit, I had a Jesus in my class in 3rd grade; I’m pretty sure he wasn’t the one from the Bible.

153

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Using a letter written by his close associate “Peter” is not good enough for you because it is included with other letters from those who knew him.

Why is it so hard to find even a single secular source of support?

You keep giving me Christians witnessing, Church documents and secular forgeries. How is it that other famous people without churches or followers managed to leave abundant traces, but Jesus left none at all?

Why is it that all the available evidence supports a theory of a fabricated myth begun in the 1st century AD? And it not only supports it, it supports it better than the alternative of having a real, flesh and blood Jesus walking around.

[/quote]

How much of the Bible have you actually read, pookie?

How much of the supporting liturature for the Bible have you actually read, pookie?

I gather you know far less than you claim. And, as I asked on a previous thread, if you have absoulte proof that God does not exist, please share it. If you don’t then you have to admit that, by faith, you choose to no believe in God. Either road takes faith my young friend.

154

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Again, how do they GAIN by making this up? Or how do they gain by promoting someone who gave them such a difficult time locally?

Answer: THEY DON’T

THINK
[/quote]

Jesus’ disciples didn’t gain anything worldly from their suffering. In fact, they suffered horrible deaths that no on would want to endure.

You may be asking too much of many of the athiests on this site to think beyond what is right in front of them.

155

[quote]pookie wrote:

Everyone acts as if there’s been only one Jesus in the whole history of the world. Shit, I had a Jesus in my class in 3rd grade; I’m pretty sure he wasn’t the one from the Bible.
[/quote]

The manuscripts for the Bible were written thousands of years ago. If you confused the hispanic kid in your third grade class with the Savior of the world, there may be no hope for you.

156

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Using a letter written by his close associate “Peter” is not good enough for you because it is included with other letters from those who knew him.

Why is it so hard to find even a single secular source of support?[/quote]

Josephus, Tacticus, Pliny and many others.

Someones followers are not credible because YOU say so?

Everyone else’s followers are allowed to write about their “leader.” But for some reason you just don’t want to read anything from those who walked with Jesus Christ.

The bar gets raised to a nutty level when Christ is involved because you seem to hate him.

You might be closing the distance between you most recent foolish remark and this one!

A military leader is allowed to be mentioned in military documents.

A political leaderis allowed to be mentioned in political documents.

But Jesus Christ is not allowed to be mentioned in Church documents?

Once again the bar is raised to a ridiculous level because YOU don’t like Jesus Christ.

Think about it.

Yes, I am aware that some historians think that “some” of what Josephus wrote is forged. Yet, “some” think that it is real.

What about the many other Roman historians who have mentioned Jesus Christ?

Are they all forged too?

There might come a point where you wake up…yep.

Please name some people from over 2000 years ago who were not famous at the time of their existance in any way (money, politics, royalty, authors etc.) who have a rich record of their history recorded.

Go ahead I’ll wait…

There is actually no “eveidence” which supports that wacky notion. Oh there are some big mouth atheists who really really want Jesus Christ not to have lived…there are also those who think we (the US) bombed the World Trade Towers. Oh and they have lot’s of “evidence.”

157

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Using a letter written by his close associate “Peter” is not good enough for you because it is included with other letters from those who knew him.

Why is it so hard to find even a single secular source of support?[/quote]

Josephus, Tacticus, Pliny and many others.

Someones followers are not credible because YOU say so?

Everyone else’s followers are allowed to write about their “leader.” But for some reason you just don’t want to read anything from those who walked with Jesus Christ.

The bar gets raised to a nutty level when Christ is involved because you seem to hate him.

You might be closing the distance between you most recent foolish remark and this one!

A military leader is allowed to be mentioned in military documents.

A political leaderis allowed to be mentioned in political documents.

But Jesus Christ is not allowed to be mentioned in Church documents?

Once again the bar is raised to a ridiculous level because YOU don’t like Jesus Christ.

Think about it.

Yes, I am aware that some historians think that “some” of what Josephus wrote is forged. Yet, “some” think that it is real.

What about the many other Roman historians who have mentioned Jesus Christ?

Are they all forged too?

There might come a point where you wake up…yep.

Please name some people from over 2000 years ago who were not famous at the time of their existance in any way (money, politics, royalty, authors etc.) who have a rich record of their history recorded.

Go ahead I’ll wait…

There is actually no “eveidence” which supports that wacky notion. Oh there are some big mouth atheists who really really want Jesus Christ not to have lived…there are also those who think we (the US) bombed the World Trade Towers. Oh and they have lot’s of “evidence.”

158

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
And many consider it to be very real. And these scholars are well aware of his writing style etc.

Keep reaching pookie…

His writing style? The whole paragraph is 127 words. How hard really was it to “blend it in” with the rest?

I’m sure those “many” are, like you, convinced apriori of the validity of the text. There isn’t a better target for forgery than the complicit victim.

[/quote]

Nor is there a more willing stooge to buy into forgery myths and conspiracy theories about Jesus than an Atheist!

Get real pook…Jesus Christ lives!

159

[quote]pookie wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Again, how do they GAIN by making this up? Or how do they gain by promoting someone who gave them such a difficult time locally?

Answer: THEY DON’T

THINK

First of all, you need to establish that it really was your Jesus they’re talking about. It’s not like it was an uncommon name at the time. They mention a Jesus who’s a bastard son of an adulterous whore. Is he yours?[/quote]

And that’s exactly how the Jews would have described him! I’ll say it again for you: They didn’t like him! He was a trouble maker in their eyes!

And they took their shots at him. That actually PROVES that he existed.

Think about it “bastard son” as he was “conceived” prior to Joseph having had sex with Mary.

Pookie you got me smiling again.

How many others by the name of “Jesus” do you think drew the attention of the Jewish population? And how many others would have been conceived out of wedlock? How many would have been noted as a “rebel” by these same people?

If this were the only piece of evidence then you might have a point. But all you have to do is start linking all of the pieces together. And then add them up with the Bibilical letters and BANG! You have a conclusion: Jesus Christ lived!

pookie you would make a lousy detective!

[quote]Shit, I had a Jesus in my class in 3rd grade; I’m pretty sure he wasn’t the one from the Bible.
[/quote]

Um…no I think that’s a safe bet.

And if you and I tried to start a following around that kid and LIED and said he was God I bet neither one of us would DIE sticking to that lie huh?

THINK

160

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
How much of the Bible have you actually read, pookie?[/quote]

A fairly large part of it. In two languages.

It needs supporting litterature? I’ve read a few Chick tracts. Does that count?

Don’t we all?

You know as well as I do that proving God’s existence or inexistence is impossible.

At best, people can try to make a convincing case either way, but it won’t be on the level of a “proof.”

Well, I don’t feel it’s faith, but feel free to label it as such if it makes you feel more secure. Or happy. Or whatever.

I don’t believe in unicorns, vampires or dragons. Does that require faith?

I don’t believe Santa Claus actually exists, even though we see dozens of them every December. Faith again?

I think Batman and Hulk are fictional characters, but I guess that’s just my faith.

I don’t believe Odin exists; nor do Jupiter/Zeus, Ahura Mazda, Allah, Osiris, Horus, Baal, Satan or God. Those non-beliefs are similar to the lack of belief in Santa, Batman and unicorns.

So, call it what you want.