A quick question:
I am doing 5/3/1 Boring But Big. But I seem have recently started to struggle to do the 5x10 squat sets. Have dropped weight. But something just doesn’t seem right. May be more of a mental block or aching knees or a combination. But who knows!
I wanted to ask has anybody replaced the 5x10 barbell squats with goblet squats? What are your results? These some how feel better and I seem to get more depth when doing them. Any opinion will be appreciated.
Goblet squats are a great exercise, and with my long legs I hate back squats. (I do almost all front squats now). At some point it will be tough to increase the weight on them to keep up with the 5/3/1 percentages. But you can do slower eccentrics and pauses at the bottom to make them a little harder with lighter weight. If they feel better for your knees, do them.
Can’t overload the quads sufficiently with Goblets… and 5 x 10 barbell squats is ridiculous
Old topic you brought back to life, but I both agree and disagree with:
as Pavel says, everyone needs to squat. But not everyone needs to back squat. This depends on your goals. Even Jim Wendler has shifted to weight-vested squats (though of course he built up his legs with years of barbell squats).
For many people, doing high rep goblet squats will give them all the squatting they need. Sure, it won’t lead them to a 500 lb back squat, but they’ll have strong, healthy, and athletic legs training that way.
I have to wholeheartedly disagree with both of these statements.
Goblet squats can be a great accessory movement after barbell work, since they’re less draining on the nervous system. Plus they have more direct carry over than a hack squat or leg press machine. Off the top of my head, here’s a few ways to use them effectively as an accessory and/or finisher:
I’ve gotten some of my most crippling quad pumps using just a 50 lb KB for squats in all manners of massochistic ways 
As far as 5x10 squats, before I defend them I’ll ask why do you think they are ridiculous?
Well think about how limiting they are since your weak links won’t allow sufficient overload
Too much volume… too little intensity. And I used to do GVT… 10 x 10. Why do 2 similar movements? Diminished returns, fatigue accumulation, muscle damage. At my peak I could back squat 455 for 2 raw, Front Squat 315 for 6 to the basement… Goblets I’m severely limited by too many factors and there’s not sufficient stimulus. Seems a very sub-par exercise for advanced lifters.
I think we’re talking about different things. The OP asked if he could replace the supplemental work (5x10) back squats in 531 with goblet squats. I would say, in most cases, yes. You’re still getting the progressive overload with the main lift in 531, and you’re getting your supplemental work by another method. It might be 5x20 goblet squats, or 5x10 goblets with a sprint after each set. You’ll still get very strong legs with this, and (depending on your preference) perhaps even better results - if overall athleticism is your goal.
Again, if your goals are purely back squat-related metrics, then you’re right.
The volume, rep ranges… are just far from optimal for growth or adaptations and practically guarantee a ton of fatigue / muscle damage.
So take it up with Wendler. The OP was asking a question in the context of Boring But Big.
Calm down fella… we’re exchanging ideas and experiences here. It’s good to question things. it’s how we evolve.
That’s fair.
Fist bump. I’m never disrespectful on here. Just throwing out different pov’s, theories, experiences, etc…
Here I am doing 3 TOPS… and experiencing gainzzzzz
The 5x10 group was fatter and weaker by comparison. It makes sense they made “better gains”. The 5x10 participants all still measured smaller in the end. There was also no real diet.
Pre
Bench press max
Wendler said:
" For people new to the Boring But Big (BBB) program, I highly, highly recommend starting very light on the lower body assistance work. Even if the weight seems very light and the sets easy, you will be insanely sore from squatting and deadlifting for 5 sets of 10 reps. There is no point in making yourself so sore that you cannot train the next day. Or even two days after that. So if you are new to the BBB, start with a light weight (around 30%) of your Training Max. Or another way of saying it; start with the lightest weight on the bar that won’t embarrass you. Something that still keeps your ego from being completely and totally broken. The general rule of thumb is to use 50-60% of your Training Max for the 5 sets of 10 reps. But this is not set in stone; the whole goal is to get 5 sets of 10 reps. You can choose to do all the sets at one weight or vary the weight on the sets."
OP is going to heavy.
Why 5 x 10 is my question. Seems arbitrary, way too much volume, and lacks sufficient intensity
In general, or in BBB?
Either way, what are you basing that on? You do not know what the load or scheme is. Practically anything taken to failure will cause growth.
