Or am I thinking about this the wrong way. When I think of a muscle group, I generally think the exercises for it are generally push only or pull only. Like chest, deltoids, triceps, quads and calves are push. While traps, lats, biceps, abs and hamstrings are pull. So where do glutes fall in?
In my experience I feel it the next day in my glutes when I have done lunges the day before, and being lunges are a push exercise, that makes me think that exercises like split squats, stepups and squats would all work the glutes, making it generally a push muscle group.
But I also hear people here, and everywhere really, that to also work the glutes you can do things like DL’s and GM’s and GHR’s, all pulling exercises. Do the glutes fire up doing both?
If yes then wouldn’t doing a push/pull split be overtraining? That’s what I am currently doing, and Deadlifts and Good Mornings show up on the pull, and the next day I am doing deep squats.
The other thing I have considered is this. The glutes are two muscle groups, the gluteus maximus and medius. Do they work separate of eachother, one generally push and the other pull?
Maybe I am over-thinking or approaching this the wrong way in regards to the push/pull. Any opinions or thoughts are welcome.
You’re over thinking this… basically your glutes will be used in any lower body movement whether it be hip-dominant (pull) or quad dominant (push) and no, from the sound of what your routine would be I don’t think you need to worry about overtraining your glutes.
[quote]adziar wrote:
You’re over thinking this… basically your glutes will be used in any lower body movement whether it be hip-dominant (pull) or quad dominant (push) and no, from the sound of what your routine would be I don’t think you need to worry about overtraining your glutes.[/quote]
I’m with this guy. At 6’2 and 165 you’ve got quite a few pounds before this kind of minutia is going to be of any use to you. Also, you’ll know if you’re approaching overtraining quite a while before it actually happens. Nobody wakes up one day overtrained.
Dont worry about it, to confuseing to give a shit about.
Leg day
Chest day
Back day
Shouldersand tricep day
There, dont try to group muscles that pull for the sake of it. Glutes get hit on leg day and to some degree on back day so just let them be trained then. Same goes for all muscle groups.
Push pull works better as a definition when applied to the upper body, as people have said glutes can both push and pull (squats and deadlifts being the classic examples). Personally I would not do push/legs and a pull/legs but here are some good options
Day 1 - Push
Day 2 - Pull
Day 3 - Legs
or
Day 1 - Push
Day 2 - Pull/Legs (pull is shorter so throw legs on here)
or if you want to just do total body you can try that and then you don’t need to worry about it.
Okay, just to utterly confuse the OP, generally Hip-Dominant exercises like deadlifts–pretty much the ultimate in glute exercises are considered PULLS and Knee-Doms are considered PUSHES. So if he’s going for a two-day split, the “push pull” method would have him Deadlift/Row/Horizontal Pull (plus bicep work if you’re into that) on one day, then Squat/Vertical and Horizontal press plus tricep work on day two.
This method’s best applied on a 3x/week schedule, M-W-F/ A-B-A/B-A-B system. Not really advisable to go high-volume on either day. Good luck–Andrew
Glutes are push or pull depending on what movement they’re in. If you’re trying to follow a push/pull routine then use a workout that’s already been made or follow the template of an existing push-pull routine if you’re worried about hitting your legs too often. This is why I think upper/lower splits are superior to push-pull splits.
The traps can be push muscles too when you take into account overhead pressing.
Push-Pull workouts don’t really allow for high volume for legs. And some people need high volume for legs.
Deads are said to be a pull muscle because you are pulling with your hands. If you were to push it, it is already as far down as it can go when it is on the floor.
All muscles “pull” The contract. that is what they do.
Even triceps, they pull a flexed elbow into extension.
Exercises for the lower body are grouped by the dominant participant because there is really other way to do it. Squats, by changing your position, can more heavily hit the quads or with a shift, the role of the hips can be increased.
The glutes are a big happy team. You forgot about the gluteus minimus.
You are over thinking it a bit. Squats the day after deads shoule be replanned. How is your progress?
I would rather think of concentric action is “shortening”. I believe someone already stated “All muscles pull when contracting”…just about the same as shortening.
Also, I would tell you and challenge you to keep “analyzing”. I personally don’t think you are over-analyzing anything. You will find there is much more to different exercises as you dig deeper. So don’t be afraid to shed some light on your own ignorance (not meant as an insult).
Also (IMO) any “leg” closed chain exercise is actually a “full body movement”. I.E. deads are full body pulls and squats full body pushes.
As far as muscles being activated to do what and in what sequence. The answer is in the direction of the joints being moved and the force of the external load (and even its position in relationship to gravity–biomechanics).
I think CW actually brought up this point somewhat when he spoke of frequency also Mike Boyle.
So, don’t worry too much about over training an isolated muscle. BUT keep learning and challenging ideas.