Giraffe Killed

[doublelung84]

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

I am also disappointed that such a big deal was made of it being done in front of the children. Kids should she this stuff so they understand where food comes from. We are too far removed from our food source IMO.
[/quote]

Ding ding ding! Winner.

Death is the way of Nature, and so usually very violent and painful death via fighting, getting eaten or some other thing. Being educated on the real nature of death and the “circle of life” and/or being shot for food is much more humane than letting Mother Nature have an animal in the wild starve for a month or suffer from a fatal wounding and broken leg for a couple weeks before succumbing anyways.[/quote]

Well I was going to let the first one go but now it seems we now have two completely uneducated people weighing in.
[/quote]

Were you planning on actually attaching some content to that insult?[/quote]

It was not an insult. Do you feel educated enough to speak on the topic? If so; continue. If not and you need me to attach some content I will. What would you like to have a better understanding of?[/quote]

I’m willing to bet that I’ve at least researched/read more about this specific occasion than you, and given your current stance on the subject I would also bet you are not educated in zoology or biology because 100% of the professionals I’ve seen weigh in have agreed with the decision made by the Copenhagen Zoo.

[/quote]

I do not doubt you have read more then I have. As for practical experience, maybe not. What separates the experienced from the textbook is the ability to understand that there is no 100% in agreement among professional. That statement along displays a lack of understanding.

You can not create a situation that has one rational outcome and then say everyone agreed with the final course of action. I’m trying to lead you down a path, but you need to ask the right questions.

[doublelung84]

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

I am also disappointed that such a big deal was made of it being done in front of the children. Kids should she this stuff so they understand where food comes from. We are too far removed from our food source IMO.
[/quote]

Ding ding ding! Winner.

Death is the way of Nature, and so usually very violent and painful death via fighting, getting eaten or some other thing. Being educated on the real nature of death and the “circle of life” and/or being shot for food is much more humane than letting Mother Nature have an animal in the wild starve for a month or suffer from a fatal wounding and broken leg for a couple weeks before succumbing anyways.[/quote]

Well I was going to let the first one go but now it seems we now have two completely uneducated people weighing in.
[/quote]

Do you only use that bow for target practice?
[/quote]

NOOOO! I use it kill things. But I assume you knew that with a name like DoubleLung.

Don’t you think if a man who has no adversity to plunging an arrow threw the lungs of Bambi’s father would take issue with this killing, it would give you pause?
[/quote]

Only because your stance seems illogical to me. You don’t object to killing an animal to feed yourself but object to killing an animal to feed other animals. If giraffes were an endangered species I could see being upset at killing it but they are not so the zoo chose to provide some of its animals a source of food normally obtained in the wild. I see no problem.
[/quote]

I do not object to the kill of one species to feed another; human or not. Does that clear up my stance?

Again, think about my previous question.

[doublelung84]

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
Not a big deal. People need to stop getting up in arms over death. It’s a natural part of life.[/quote]

There wasnt nothing natural about this death, there was other options, other zoos that were willing to take the animal, it wasnt necessary. This was callous, cruel, and unnecessary. [/quote]

Why is this more cruel than feeding it a cow or horse? Granted it was not the best idea to show it to the public, but I’m pretty certain it is standard practice to feed excess animals to the carnivores.

Is it because it is a cute animal that everyone likes? Would there have been less uproar if it was a warthog?

I am really not trying to be contentious but until there are vegan Lions something is going to have to die for them to eat.

[/quote]

I think your misunderstanding me, in this instance it was animal in captivity that did not need to die, The lions were not starving for meat, this animal was killed for a reason that had a solution wherein the animal did not have to die.

It could have been any animal, it had nothing to do with the type of animal it had everything to do with it being unnecessary.

U ASSHOLE
[/quote]

While I agree I am indeed an asshole my point stands, if not this animal some other animal would have had to been killed to feed the Lions. Giraffes are pretty successful breeders so I don’t see why they shouldn’t be utilized.

I am also disappointed that such a big deal was made of it being done in front of the children. Kids should she this stuff so they understand where food comes from. We are too far removed from our food source IMO.
[/quote]

This is soooo tooootally awesome, Testy! We agree!

cue Hallelujah Chorus[/quote]

pushharder,
Figured you show up!

[MattyXL]

Having a debate here is like having an argument with my wife…We will be having an argument about doing the dishes and somehow it will turn into how I fucked that Vietnamese Whore ONE TIME!

I am talking about specifics here, I am not against animals being killed for food, but in THIS INSTANCE it was not necessary. There wasn’t a shortage of food for the captive lions. The lions regular food was not infected with the Ebola virus. There was no need for this animal to be killed. There was no necessity for children to be taught the proper way to dissect a giraffe so that education part is ridiculous.

This “expert” term being dangled here is such a subjective term, I am sure the officials from the Zoo that wanted to take in the Giraffe instead of it being lion chow and a donation to enrich the education of children consider themselves experts as well.

[super_saiyan]

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Having a debate here is like having an argument with my wife…We will be having an argument about doing the dishes and somehow it will turn into how I fucked that Vietnamese Whore ONE TIME!

I am talking about specifics here, I am not against animals being killed for food, but in THIS INSTANCE it was not necessary. There wasn’t a shortage of food for the captive lions. The lions regular food was not infected with the Ebola virus. There was no need for this animal to be killed. There was no necessity for children to be taught the proper way to dissect a giraffe so that education part is ridiculous.

This “expert” term being dangled here is such a subjective term, I am sure the officials from the Zoo that wanted to take in the Giraffe instead of it being lion chow and a donation to enrich the education of children consider themselves experts as well.

[/quote]

So you are saying that the U.S. should stop providing foreign aid to Albania?

[MattyXL]

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Having a debate here is like having an argument with my wife…We will be having an argument about doing the dishes and somehow it will turn into how I fucked that Vietnamese Whore ONE TIME!

I am talking about specifics here, I am not against animals being killed for food, but in THIS INSTANCE it was not necessary. There wasn’t a shortage of food for the captive lions. The lions regular food was not infected with the Ebola virus. There was no need for this animal to be killed. There was no necessity for children to be taught the proper way to dissect a giraffe so that education part is ridiculous.

This “expert” term being dangled here is such a subjective term, I am sure the officials from the Zoo that wanted to take in the Giraffe instead of it being lion chow and a donation to enrich the education of children consider themselves experts as well.

[/quote]

So you are saying that the U.S. should stop providing foreign aid to Albania?[/quote]

Lol stepped right into that one

[red04]

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Having a debate here is like having an argument with my wife…We will be having an argument about doing the dishes and somehow it will turn into how I fucked that Vietnamese Whore ONE TIME!

I am talking about specifics here, I am not against animals being killed for food, but in THIS INSTANCE it was not necessary. There wasn’t a shortage of food for the captive lions. The lions regular food was not infected with the Ebola virus. There was no need for this animal to be killed. There was no necessity for children to be taught the proper way to dissect a giraffe so that education part is ridiculous.

This “expert” term being dangled here is such a subjective term, I am sure the officials from the Zoo that wanted to take in the Giraffe instead of it being lion chow and a donation to enrich the education of children consider themselves experts as well.

[/quote]

Two zoos offered to take the giraffe from what I’ve read. One already owned a brother of Marius, and the other does not belong to the EAZA and does not carry the standards that they require to donate animals. You can argue the second point if you want, it’s pretty subjective, but the first zoo is not a rational donation point for the animal as decided by everyone that runs the breeding program(which includes the zoo that offered, I would assume the offer came from someone that knew they had space for a giraffe but was not aware of the genetic complication).

As far as the autopsy, surplus animals from the Copenhagen Zoo are often donated to local museums where these are performed as a sign-up to see event with children and parents. This was exactly like those, which are apparently very popular(can link to a thread on another forum where multiple Danes corroborate this) except that it was done at the zoo, most likely so that transportation was not required since the meat was being given to the lions and tigers. The attending vets field questions and do a lot of explaining, it is more than just a live dissection of the animal.

[MattyXL]

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Having a debate here is like having an argument with my wife…We will be having an argument about doing the dishes and somehow it will turn into how I fucked that Vietnamese Whore ONE TIME!

I am talking about specifics here, I am not against animals being killed for food, but in THIS INSTANCE it was not necessary. There wasn’t a shortage of food for the captive lions. The lions regular food was not infected with the Ebola virus. There was no need for this animal to be killed. There was no necessity for children to be taught the proper way to dissect a giraffe so that education part is ridiculous.

This “expert” term being dangled here is such a subjective term, I am sure the officials from the Zoo that wanted to take in the Giraffe instead of it being lion chow and a donation to enrich the education of children consider themselves experts as well.

[/quote]

Two zoos offered to take the giraffe from what I’ve read. One already owned a brother of Marius, and the other does not belong to the EAZA and does not carry the standards that they require to donate animals. You can argue the second point if you want, it’s pretty subjective, but the first zoo is not a rational donation point for the animal as decided by everyone that runs the breeding program(which includes the zoo that offered, I would assume the offer came from someone that knew they had space for a giraffe but was not aware of the genetic complication).

As far as the autopsy, surplus animals from the Copenhagen Zoo are often donated to local museums where these are performed as a sign-up to see event with children and parents. This was exactly like those, which are apparently very popular(can link to a thread on another forum where multiple Danes corroborate this) except that it was done at the zoo, most likely so that transportation was not required since the meat was being given to the lions and tigers. The attending vets field questions and do a lot of explaining, it is more than just a live dissection of the animal.[/quote]

Again subjective and not necessary

[jj_dude]

[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:

Why Copenhagen zoo was right to cull giraffe | CNN

I tend to agree with this account. Yet again I am biologist so may be biased towards this view.

Also they did not kill it and butcher it in front of random visitors. The people knew what they were coming for and learned from it. If they did not want to see it they did not have to. I think it was a good idea for them to use it as a learning experience instead of just killing the animal (which they were doing anyway).

p.s. the article is the statement from Lesley Dickie, the Executive Director of the European Association of Zoos and Aquaria.[/quote]

And you don’t know what the behavior of giraffes are. Me neither. I used to live on a deer farm and if there were extra young bucks you could count on them being killed by the stag. In the wild, this would drive off the other males but where could they go in an enclosure? Adolescents getting gored repeatedly by a full grown stag during rutting season is horrifying to witness, let me tell you. Also, allowing inbreeding with wild animals can lead to a really quick drop in viability. Fine if you are going to be butchering them for food anyway, but critical if you are trying to keep pairs around for breeding.

Just saying I see that there has to be way more to this than thuggish zoo workers doing their remake of Psycho.

And as always, full of shit…

– jj

[super_saiyan]

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Having a debate here is like having an argument with my wife…We will be having an argument about doing the dishes and somehow it will turn into how I fucked that Vietnamese Whore ONE TIME!

I am talking about specifics here, I am not against animals being killed for food, but in THIS INSTANCE it was not necessary. There wasn’t a shortage of food for the captive lions. The lions regular food was not infected with the Ebola virus. There was no need for this animal to be killed. There was no necessity for children to be taught the proper way to dissect a giraffe so that education part is ridiculous.

This “expert” term being dangled here is such a subjective term, I am sure the officials from the Zoo that wanted to take in the Giraffe instead of it being lion chow and a donation to enrich the education of children consider themselves experts as well.

[/quote]

Two zoos offered to take the giraffe from what I’ve read. One already owned a brother of Marius, and the other does not belong to the EAZA and does not carry the standards that they require to donate animals. You can argue the second point if you want, it’s pretty subjective, but the first zoo is not a rational donation point for the animal as decided by everyone that runs the breeding program(which includes the zoo that offered, I would assume the offer came from someone that knew they had space for a giraffe but was not aware of the genetic complication).

As far as the autopsy, surplus animals from the Copenhagen Zoo are often donated to local museums where these are performed as a sign-up to see event with children and parents. This was exactly like those, which are apparently very popular(can link to a thread on another forum where multiple Danes corroborate this) except that it was done at the zoo, most likely so that transportation was not required since the meat was being given to the lions and tigers. The attending vets field questions and do a lot of explaining, it is more than just a live dissection of the animal.[/quote]

Did you say autopsy? I wonder what the giraffe’s lean body mass was.

[MattyXL]

Giraffe meat is very fatty

[red04]

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Having a debate here is like having an argument with my wife…We will be having an argument about doing the dishes and somehow it will turn into how I fucked that Vietnamese Whore ONE TIME!

I am talking about specifics here, I am not against animals being killed for food, but in THIS INSTANCE it was not necessary. There wasn’t a shortage of food for the captive lions. The lions regular food was not infected with the Ebola virus. There was no need for this animal to be killed. There was no necessity for children to be taught the proper way to dissect a giraffe so that education part is ridiculous.

This “expert” term being dangled here is such a subjective term, I am sure the officials from the Zoo that wanted to take in the Giraffe instead of it being lion chow and a donation to enrich the education of children consider themselves experts as well.

[/quote]

Two zoos offered to take the giraffe from what I’ve read. One already owned a brother of Marius, and the other does not belong to the EAZA and does not carry the standards that they require to donate animals. You can argue the second point if you want, it’s pretty subjective, but the first zoo is not a rational donation point for the animal as decided by everyone that runs the breeding program(which includes the zoo that offered, I would assume the offer came from someone that knew they had space for a giraffe but was not aware of the genetic complication).

As far as the autopsy, surplus animals from the Copenhagen Zoo are often donated to local museums where these are performed as a sign-up to see event with children and parents. This was exactly like those, which are apparently very popular(can link to a thread on another forum where multiple Danes corroborate this) except that it was done at the zoo, most likely so that transportation was not required since the meat was being given to the lions and tigers. The attending vets field questions and do a lot of explaining, it is more than just a live dissection of the animal.[/quote]

Did you say autopsy? I wonder what the giraffe’s lean body mass was.[/quote]

If LoRez’s numbers of 18g protein and 32g fat for a pound of meat are correct, not very good SS. Maybe they get those numbers on giraffes that were still bulking though because they knew they had more size to gain.

[LoRez]

I don’t know if those numbers are correct… it came out of some math textbook. Couldn’t find a good source at all.

But, if that textbook is correct – which I doubt – gazelles are much higher in protein, much lower in fat.

Giraffes at 18g protein, 36g fat
Gazelles at 36g protein, 18g fat

The only other source was some FAO report on fat content of giraffe… but I can’t tell if they were measuring just the meat, or the whole animal.

If that source is correct (and I trust it a bit more than a math book), then giraffe has 2.2g fat and 123 calories per 100g, which would put it at 25.8g protein per 100g… or 117g per pound. But that still doesn’t sound right to me, because I was pretty sure kangaroo had the highest protein content (at 22g/100g or 100g/lb).

[Captnoblivious]

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Giraffe meat is very fatty[/quote]

You know, I started a parody thread called.

Giraffe Grilled, with a link to a giraffe meal…

It didn’t make it past the mods. lol

[Dr_Pangloss]

Looking at how they treated this giraffe, I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be an elderly Dutchman.

[legendaryblaze]

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

I am also disappointed that such a big deal was made of it being done in front of the children. Kids should she this stuff so they understand where food comes from. We are too far removed from our food source IMO.
[/quote]

Ding ding ding! Winner.

Death is the way of Nature, and so usually very violent and painful death via fighting, getting eaten or some other thing. Being educated on the real nature of death and the “circle of life” and/or being shot for food is much more humane than letting Mother Nature have an animal in the wild starve for a month or suffer from a fatal wounding and broken leg for a couple weeks before succumbing anyways.[/quote]

Well I was going to let the first one go but now it seems we now have two completely uneducated people weighing in.
[/quote]

Were you planning on actually attaching some content to that insult?[/quote]

It was not an insult. Do you feel educated enough to speak on the topic? If so; continue. If not and you need me to attach some content I will. What would you like to have a better understanding of?[/quote]

I’m willing to bet that I’ve at least researched/read more about this specific occasion than you, and given your current stance on the subject I would also bet you are not educated in zoology or biology because 100% of the professionals I’ve seen weigh in have agreed with the decision made by the Copenhagen Zoo.

[/quote]

I do not doubt you have read more then I have. As for practical experience, maybe not. What separates the experienced from the textbook is the ability to understand that there is no 100% in agreement among professional. That statement along displays a lack of understanding.

You can not create a situation that has one rational outcome and then say everyone agreed with the final course of action. I’m trying to lead you down a path, but you need to ask the right questions.
[/quote]

No offense intended, but you’re coming off as really pretentious and outright stupid. The zoo and the organization it is part of are filled with experts/professionals where biology and zoology is either their passion or/and their job (duh).
I imagine they would know the best/most rational/most resourceful outcome to this issue. I don’t know why you’re trying to be mysterious or something, but you have basically said nothing but insults. This observation has been mentioned by others in this thread. You may want to think about that.

[super_saiyan]

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:
Don’t you think if a man who has no adversity to plunging an arrow threw the lungs of Bambi’s father would take issue with this killing, it would give you pause?
[/quote]

[bdocksaints75]

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Giraffe meat is very fatty[/quote]

You know, I started a parody thread called.

Giraffe Grilled, with a link to a giraffe meal…

It didn’t make it past the mods. lol[/quote]

I would eat Giraffe.

[MattyXL]

[quote]bdocksaints75 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Giraffe meat is very fatty[/quote]

You know, I started a parody thread called.

Giraffe Grilled, with a link to a giraffe meal…

It didn’t make it past the mods. lol[/quote]

I would eat Giraffe.[/quote]

Me too but only if kids could watch