Ok, a couple of things. You say that you sprinted with no supplementation and didn’t lose any muscle; Now, I’m not calling you a liar, but what kind of measurements did you take to verify this? It’s very easy to gradually lose muscle mass without noticing it…it’s not like you go to bed one night and wake up a skinny bastard the next morning. It’s a slower, gradual process, and over time it can really set you back. Even if this did happen, I can’t recommend it to others, as your case would be highly individual. Sprinting is very catabolic, and without introducing supplementation you will almost definitely lose muscle. Read through my other posts to Podge on the subject for a timed outline of what and when to take when you sprint.
Also, I recommend that you switch the sprinting and weight training around. You'll burn a great deal of fat by sprinting on an empty stomach in the morning and can minimize the catabolic effects through supplementation. Having a P + C meal with your weight training session in the evening isn't going to halt your progress; your body will be utilizing those calories to aid in recovery, not storing them. Again, I posted alot on the subject to Podge earlier in the thread. Hope this helps, any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.
There is no problem with increasing the carbs, it will actually be quite helpful in retaining lean mass and it wont hurt your diet one bit, provided that you drop the calories somewhere else to balance things out. 1g/lb LBM is still quite low, you are not goint to start laying down the fat with that kind of carb intake; you have nothing to worry about.
As far as the glutamine, I wouldn't recommend mixing it too far in advance; but why would you be doing this anyway? If I need a shake on the go, I just bring the powder (and glutamine) in a small tupperware and mix it in a shaker cup when I'm ready to eat. You can get some really nice shaker cups with screens at Vitaplus.net. Hope this helps buddy; let me know if I can help in any other way.
In previous posts in this thread, it has been recommended that a 5x5 or similar workout be used with the fat fast diet. What would be an effective training split using the 5x5 method for a relative beginner? Also, what about the beginner blast off program? Would it be effective on the fat fast?
To Joel Marion: I never said I didn’t supplement after. I just didn’t supplement with carbs. Instead I would have a protein and fat shake about 45 minutes after sprinting. I take measurements every month and looking back at my measurements I lost an inch off my waist, 1 1/2 inches off my stomach, gained 2/8 inches on my arms, gained 3/8 on my chest, and legs stayed the same. I have been doing this a while and know how to measure myself. I usually take measurements a few times and then use the one that comes up the most. I would also rather sprint at night. It takes me a while to get up and usually workout about 3-4 hours after waking.
To Jason Norcross: I kind of made up my own sprint workout. I would warmup first, then jog 50 yards, sprint 100 yards and then walk for about 2 minutes. After walking I would repeat the jogging and sprinting. I started out with 3 sets of these and worked up to 8 sets 3 nights a week.
Okay, think I am gonna up the carbs…does make sense for preserving some LBM I guess. I’ve been working on the diet, and was wondering what you think about the max amount of carbs I should take in at once. I was thinking 50g with my post-workout shake, then another 65g in the 1st meal after my shake (hour later). The rest of the carbs would be spread throughout the day in 10 or 15g amounts per meal. Does 65g seem like too much to have at once without storing some as fat? I guess this could be highly individual, but let me know what you think.
Stick to the massive eating principles (3 P+C meals, 3 P+F meals). If possible have the P+C meals in the morning and follow them up with the P+F meals in the later hours of the day. If consuming 1g of carb/lb LBM this would be ~185g; split into three meals would be roughly 61 grams of carbs with your P+C meals. Any need for clarification or other questions just ask.
Hi All, I started my cutting phase today. I’m 26yrs 5’10" 198lbs 12-13%BF. My goal is to get to 6%…hopefully by July. I’m gonna start off using Meltdown Training. I’m using mag-10 1xday, T2 1/day adding one every week, MD6 2X3/day, Vitex 400mg/day for six weeks. After that, I will use Tribex, M, T2Pro and Methoxy7 for 2-4weeks. Then start over. The problem lies with my diet. I can’t go on a low carb diet right now because I have Rugby practice Tues and Thurs nights and games on Sat, and I play Flag Football on Mon nights so I need a decent amount of carbs for energy. I will be taking in about 3,000 calories, Approx: 320gr/Protein, 70gr/Fat, and 220gr carbs. I will lower my carb intake on my days off(tues&sun). I split up my meals Massive Eating style w/P+C meals around my workouts and P+F later at night. My problem is that I don’t lose much fat usually on a higher carb diet but I don’t have a choice right now. My only bad carb choice that I use frequently is skim milk which i add to my shakes and oatmeal to give me a little extra cals, prot and carbs. Plus it makes the shakes and oatmeal taste so much better!!! Is the skim milk really a bad choice??? Other than that, my diet consists of: MRP’s/Protein powders, cottage cheese, beans, oatmeal, chicken, turkey, flax oil, and fish oil. Hopefully my plan will work…any input will be much appreciated…Thanx and Good Luck to everyone in their quest to get shredded!!!
John, you sound like me trying to work around a sport…my biggest suggestion would be to adopt a lifting program that will allow you to maintain your strength in-season (not to mention dieting!)…and what most people will tell you is that Meltdown isn’t the best choice for this. Like Joel M. and Jason N. have said over and over, try a 5x5 program or something similar.
This message is to Podge.
Podge what diet are you on? I’m trying this diet where I take 295 grams of protein, 50 grams of carbs, and 25 grams of protein. It is very difficult. I find it difficult to take in that much protein and stay under the fat level. Do you have any recommendations? Thanks.
According to my Tanita, 35% is still my BF, no change. Mostly water probably. I just walked a lot for exercise. Tomorrow am starting weight lifing. Doing to a version of EDT every other day.
John - I agree with SBET. A strength based program will suit you better than Meltdown to preserve strength and lean body mass.
Skim milk is something I rely on for bulking cycles, but use sparingly for cutting cycles. It tends to jack up insulin for some, but some people handle milk quite well. It sounds like milk could be a culprit in your diet, so try to limit consumption as much as you can. Most protein powders taste fine without milk, but you need to get used to it.
If you’re sprinting later in the day, then you’ll probably be ok. You’ll have food in your system to supply energy and although a P&F meal won’t replenish glycogen stores, you are not really taxing them with this workout. Make sure you are supplementing with creatine as I’ve suggested to others.
Devito- The GI of lactose (milk sugar) is not very high, but it is half galactose, which does nothing for muscle glycogen, but is only food for the liver. I don’t see any problem with having some skim milk during your diet…I take in 2 cups a day with my morning shake. However, I don’t recommend getting a great deal of your carbs from this source for the reason I previously stated.
JasonL- I just can't see why anyone would want to torture themselves in this fashion and not receive maximum benefits from their workouts. If you sprint in the evening you will burn much much less fat than you would if you sprinted in the morning. I'm not a morning person either, but I'll get my ass out of bed, throw some water on my face, stretch, and then sprint. Research shows that you get alot more for the time you put in by doing thing this way. Also, I don't see any reason not to supplement with about ~25g of maltodextrin and/or dextrose 45-60 mins after the completion of your workout to further shut down catabolism.
Another reason I sprint at night is that I uaually have class from 6-9p.m. at night and my gym closes at 10p.m… It takes about 20 minutes to get to my gym and wouldn’t have enough time to get an effective workout. I also think if I sprint first thing than workout 3 hours later than it might affect my workout. I could be wrong though. I not debating with you about the post-sprint carbs, ,but I was asking you if I would get better results by using maybe 25 grams maltodextrin without slowing down fat loss. And I defintely don’t want to lose muscle, so I might start trying it and see what happens.
SBET, Jason, Joel…I’m using meltdown training first because I was recently on a heavy routine for a while and my joints were killing me so i need a break from it. Plus, I have never used meltdown before so I should get some benefit just from a different training stimulus. Plus I figure it will help my endurance…my endurance sucks…and i need endurance for rugby…so this type of training should help that also…i will use 5x5 after meltdown…but i just needed a change for now…as for skim milk…i know i know…i have to cut down…i will start cutting it out gradually and i guess adding more oatmeal/cottage cheese/whey to compensate…thanks for your feedback guys…
After the suggestions of those on the forum, I’m planning to go with a 5x5 lifting program for the four weeks that I will be on the fat fast diet. Would the training split that’s listed below be effective with the fat fast?
Monday-Chest, back and triceps
barbell bench press, lat pulldown, and lying ez-bar triceps extensions
Wednesday-Lower body
leg presses, leg curl, and standing calve raises
Friday-shoulders, biceps, and abs
military press, barbell standing curl, and swiss ball crunches.
I’ve been using the German Body Comp program on my fat fast. After I lose ten more pounds I’m going to re-introduce carbs slowly. I’m considering the meal replacement diet which would put me at 125 to 150 grams of carbs per day and adding more cardio for the insulin sensitivity issue. Is it ok to jump straight into 150 grams or should I start at 50 grams per day for a few days and then 100? I’m thinking this would be a good time to switch to meltdown because of what I’ve read on this post (which is a great post by the way. I’ve learned a lot.) about needing carbs for meltdown. I will go back on a bulk phase later with myostat and mag 10 and use German Volume Training. Thanks for all the good info everyone.
You should be ok jumping to that many carbs if you partion your carb meals as breakfast and right after workouts (both weightlifting and cardio). Also if you take about 200mg Alpha Lipoic Acid with your carb meals, it will help immensely.
