Getting Fatter, What am I Doing Wrong?

Training Bodybuilding
101

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
The 2 questions above, what are your answers? Do you really think most should train the same way as the pro’s and what would be a good example of a routine you’d give the average 17-18y/o?

[/quote]

I’m not X but you are probably going to get very similar answers form us just so this gets drilled into your head.

  1. He answered that but stop looking at sets and reps and splits. IT DOESN’T MATTER. What is the difference between you and Ronnie Coleman(insert any large bodybuilder here)? Genetics, drugs, blah blah blah. He’s a human forklift and lifts the biggest weights he could possibly handle for safe reps ranges.

The day you max out your strength levels is the day you will likely be the biggest you can be assuming you didn’t eat like a child along the way. Ronnie also would routinely eat in the 500+ protein range and an enormous amount of calories(bbq sauce and corn bread baby lol) to fuel and recover from his workouts.

So maybe… just maybe… if you figured out how to become as strong as you could(in bodybuilding context not singles or doubles) and ate as much food as you could without being uncomfortable with your bodyfat you’d be growing at the fastest rate your genetics and views on bodyfat allow. Big picture here, common denominators.

If you can’t incline press 365x12 yet than it’s no mystery why you don’t have a huge chest, worry about THAT before you worry about making it any more complicated than it needs to be.

  1. Like the one I told David to do. It’s moderate volume, more frequent training and focuses on progression(the key). I wonder what X did his first couple years of training lol
102

[quote]Scott M wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
The 2 questions above, what are your answers? Do you really think most should train the same way as the pro’s and what would be a good example of a routine you’d give the average 17-18y/o?

I’m not X but you are probably going to get very similar answers form us just so this gets drilled into your head.

  1. He answered that but stop looking at sets and reps and splits. IT DOESN’T MATTER. What is the difference between you and Ronnie Coleman(insert any large bodybuilder here)? Genetics, drugs, blah blah blah. He’s a human forklift and lifts the biggest weights he could possibly handle for safe reps ranges. The day you max out your strength levels is the day you will likely be the biggest you can be assuming you didn’t eat like a child along the way. Ronnie also would routinely eat in the 500+ protein range and an enormous amount of calories(bbq sauce and corn bread baby lol) to fuel and recover from his workouts. So maybe… just maybe… if you figured out how to become as fast as you could(in bodybuilding context not singles or doubles) and ate as much food as you could without being uncomfortable with your bodyfat you’d be growing at the fastest rate your genetics and views on bodyfat allow. Big picture here, common denominators. If you can’t incline press 365x12 yet than it’s no mystery why you don’t have a huge chest, worry about THAT before you worry about making it any more complicated than it needs to be.

  2. Like the one I told David to do. It’s moderate volume, more frequent training and focuses on progression(the key). I wonder what X did his first couple years of training lol [/quote]

Good post.

These newbies get so caught up in numbers that they skip right over the very basics that are the KEY to reaching that goal.

The exact number of reps or the exact number of sets is the LEAST important factor. It comes far after whether you are actually lifting enough weight to grow and eating enough to grow.

If you are a beginner, pic a damn program (that is actually followed by people who got really big and really strong) and then STOP reading these fucking articles until you put on a good 20-30lbs.

103

Man, I’m late for the show…

You know Pumped, it’s not that the Pro’s routines are impossible or anything… if you can do them and keep upping the weights you use, then where is the issue?

2-4 exercises per bodypart with one light warmup set and 3 work sets of increasing resistance and either decreasing reps or similar reps, that is basic stuff…

You may find it difficult to train your whole body twice a week that way, but hitting each bodypart once a week and weak parts twice or so is one of those never-failing routines that get you big if you just eat and sleep enough and keep on using bigger weights…

Most successful natties train like that, too, not just assisted guys.

And as a beginner, it truly doesn’t matter what routine you do, as long as it isn’t outlandishly stupid.

Edit: 13% bodyfat will look “fat” to no one.
You clearly have no experience regarding bf percentages…

Not that the other’s haven’t mentioned that already, but I thought it might just help if we tell you this about twice per minute.
That way, it might just sink in, you know?

104

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
There comes a point where you just need to shut the fuck up and train. Been there and done that. As soon as you learn to stuff your face and increase your lift numbers considerably, you will have a muscular body. Stop worrying about getting “fat,” you’re anorexic as it is. Stuff your face, shut the fuck up, and lift hard. Best advice I can give to you at this point. It’s harsh, but a simple reality.

EDIT: Smash your computer to, it seems to be doing more harm then good. Buy some books. Encyclopediia of Modern bodybuilding, Starting Strength…Experiment and see what works for you…the net is doing more harm then good.

i agree he’s too obsessive over some details but about just stuffing his face, have you ever heard of skinny-fat people? Chris shugarts mentioned it plenty of times as well…just because he or someone is skinny doesn’t mean they cant have too much fat. if someone is as skinny as 155lb. but still at 13% BF thats definitely not someone who should just stuff his face IMO.[/quote]

WHAT? 13% is not fat and at his height and weight I bet he looks like a rail. He needs to stuff his face of good quality food and train hard. with his genetics it will be real hard for him to get "fat’ I bet.

105

In all seriousness pumped, you have shown that you don’t really know what you’re talking about and have a lot to learn and a lot to learn in the gym as well.

That’s not an attack on you, or saying that you’re dumb. It’s an undeniable fact that you aren’t really equipped to be answering some of these questions or trying to have a debate with those that have much more knowledge than you.

106

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Man, I’m late for the show…

You know Pumped, it’s not that the Pro’s routines are impossible or anything… if you can do them and keep upping the weights you use, then where is the issue?

2-4 exercises per bodypart with one light warmup set and 3 work sets of increasing resistance and either decreasing reps or similar reps, that is basic stuff…

You may find it difficult to train your whole body twice a week that way, but hitting each bodypart once a week and weak parts twice or so is one of those never-failing routines that get you big if you just eat and sleep enough and keep on using bigger weights…

Most successful natties train like that, too, not just assisted guys.

And as a beginner, it truly doesn’t matter what routine you do, as long as it isn’t outlandishly stupid.
[/quote]
i agree with that. I was referring to pro routines with 20 sets for some muscles. I know some pro’s do train with less volume and i dont see a problem with that.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

WHAT? 13% is not fat and at his height and weight I bet he looks like a rail. He needs to stuff his face of good quality food and train hard. with his genetics it will be real hard for him to get "fat’ I bet.
[/quote]

of course the OP’s not fat. but when your really muscular you start looking fatter at higher bf%…i saw a pic of Jay cutler once leaning over his food eating. He doesnt let his bodyfat get too high but he looked pretty damn fat. Lets drop that though because clearly it wont get anywhere.

And clearly it would not be hard for the OP to get fat with his genetics considering he’s stated that he puts fat on easily and used to be fat but cut down to be too skinny.

107

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
but when your really muscular you start looking fatter at higher bf%
[/quote]

This is false. It is the other way around. Someone with 240lbs of lean body mass is not going to look fat even if they are close to 20%. Some really skinny guy at 20% might actually look chubby.

Hint: stop posting so much. You are wrong on so many levels that it stopped being amusing pages ago.

108

[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
but when your really muscular you start looking fatter at higher bf%

This is false. It is the other way around. Someone with 240lbs of lean body mass is not going to look fat even if they are close to 20%. Some really skinny guy at 20% might actually look chubby.

Hint: stop posting so much. You are wrong on so many levels that it stopped being amusing pages ago.[/quote]

correct on all accounts

109

You have immense patience. I was wrong to assume you were an elitist misfit who typed in riddles.

I wonder what the purpose of creating a T-cell was, when you waste this much time talking to someone who just needs to lift and get his eating in order, though.

Also, have you ever considered telling someone, go find a big lug in your gym and train with him? thats more effective all said and done.
Here, there are too many people with ana genda whove cluttered the place with their thoughts and ideas (which have been born mostly from their own insecurities sadly)…and I;m not dropping any names.

Pumped whatever, there are two good threads on the T-cell “What I;m doing to bulk” and “Summer of Size” where the OPs appear to have gained/are gaining some good size. Do read them and PM some of the guys there.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
but when your really muscular you start looking fatter at higher bf%

This is false. It is the other way around. Someone with 240lbs of lean body mass is not going to look fat even if they are close to 20%. Some really skinny guy at 20% might actually look chubby.

Hint: stop posting so much. You are wrong on so many levels that it stopped being amusing pages ago.[/quote]

110

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
You have immense patience. I was wrong to assume you were an elitist misfit who typed in riddles.

I wonder what the purpose of creating a T-cell was, when you waste this much time talking to someone who just needs to lift and get his eating in order, though.

Also, have you ever considered telling someone, go find a big lug in your gym and train with him? thats more effective all said and done.
Here, there are too many people with ana genda whove cluttered the place with their thoughts and ideas (which have been born mostly from their own insecurities sadly)…and I;m not dropping any names.

Pumped whatever, there are two good threads on the T-cell “What I;m doing to bulk” and “Summer of Size” where the OPs appear to have gained/are gaining some good size. Do read them and PM some of the guys there.

Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
but when your really muscular you start looking fatter at higher bf%

This is false. It is the other way around. Someone with 240lbs of lean body mass is not going to look fat even if they are close to 20%. Some really skinny guy at 20% might actually look chubby.

Hint: stop posting so much. You are wrong on so many levels that it stopped being amusing pages ago.
[/quote]

Why are you so infatuated with what I type on this forum? Try following someone else around. I don’t need the company.

111

Sadly, it appears I do.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I don’t need the company.[/quote]

112

It just seems to me (after reading this overblown thread) that the kid has a poor body image and is too hung up on figures and short term gains.

Obviously we like to keep a measure of how we’re doing but honestly, with the state he’s in he should melt down those calipers (or sell them on ebay), cut up the measuring tape, dismantle the scales, tape up the mirror and just rely on the iron.

The main problem this kid has is in his head. He’s doing something fundamentally wrong and he needs to start FROM SCRATCH.

Track you carb/fat/protein intake in something like fitday so you can determine you’ve got the percentages AROUND right level. You dont have to be decimal accurate.

And get a simple workout plan. Hell, dips, chins, rows, deads and up the weight until you cant. Then just add sets or something. Take a week off training every 12 weeks.

I’m 6’1", was skinny and thats all I did. And that was in my early 20s. If the kid is young then he should have no problem.

But all this analysis has masked what his problem is and now no one here has a damn clue - including him.

David - my advice for what its worth - throw away every record you and routine you have. Burn it. Then pick one of the plans on this thread (they’re very straight forward) and follow it. Come back in 3 months and tell us how it went. BUT DONT COME BACK FOR 3 MONTHS.

113

[quote]Neebone wrote:
It just seems to me (after reading this overblown thread) that the kid has a poor body image and is too hung up on figures and short term gains.

Obviously we like to keep a measure of how we’re doing but honestly, with the state he’s in he should melt down those calipers (or sell them on ebay), cut up the measuring tape, dismantle the scales, tape up the mirror and just rely on the iron.

The main problem this kid has is in his head. He’s doing something fundamentally wrong and he needs to start FROM SCRATCH.

Track you carb/fat/protein intake in something like fitday so you can determine you’ve got the percentages AROUND right level. You dont have to be decimal accurate.

And get a simple workout plan. Hell, dips, chins, rows, deads and up the weight until you cant. Then just add sets or something. Take a week off training every 12 weeks.

I’m 6’1", was skinny and thats all I did. And that was in my early 20s. If the kid is young then he should have no problem.

But all this analysis has masked what his problem is and now no one here has a damn clue - including him.

David - my advice for what its worth - throw away every record you and routine you have. Burn it. Then pick one of the plans on this thread (they’re very straight forward) and follow it. Come back in 3 months and tell us how it went. BUT DONT COME BACK FOR 3 MONTHS.[/quote]

i appreciate that, scott has said the same thing. I have a pretty solid plan and he thinks i should switch to that “simple powerbuilding routine”. i like the idea of it but im reluctant to do it because im just switching things up again. however i know thats a mental thing…just something i gotta work out. so you think i should drop what i’m doing now and start that routine too?

114

That last post you just posted will be your life story for the next 3 years.

Which is when you will give up the gym and take up yoga.

WHY are you asking people what YOU should do, you have a FREE WILL try using it sometime it does wonders.

115

[quote]David1991 wrote:
Neebone wrote:
It just seems to me (after reading this overblown thread) that the kid has a poor body image and is too hung up on figures and short term gains.

Obviously we like to keep a measure of how we’re doing but honestly, with the state he’s in he should melt down those calipers (or sell them on ebay), cut up the measuring tape, dismantle the scales, tape up the mirror and just rely on the iron.

The main problem this kid has is in his head. He’s doing something fundamentally wrong and he needs to start FROM SCRATCH.

Track you carb/fat/protein intake in something like fitday so you can determine you’ve got the percentages AROUND right level. You dont have to be decimal accurate.

And get a simple workout plan. Hell, dips, chins, rows, deads and up the weight until you cant. Then just add sets or something. Take a week off training every 12 weeks.

I’m 6’1", was skinny and thats all I did. And that was in my early 20s. If the kid is young then he should have no problem.

But all this analysis has masked what his problem is and now no one here has a damn clue - including him.

David - my advice for what its worth - throw away every record you and routine you have. Burn it. Then pick one of the plans on this thread (they’re very straight forward) and follow it. Come back in 3 months and tell us how it went. BUT DONT COME BACK FOR 3 MONTHS.

i appreciate that, scott has said the same thing. I have a pretty solid plan and he thinks i should switch to that “simple powerbuilding routine”. i like the idea of it but im reluctant to do it because im just switching things up [i]again[i/]. however i know thats a mental thing…just something i gotta work out. so you think i should drop what i’m doing now and start that routine too?

[/quote]

You need to change you state of mind and you’re the only person that can do it. YES. Drop everything you are doing and start again. Dont complicate ANYTHING. Just follow one plan for 3 months with the eating suggested. It takes hard work and we make mistakes. Just accept this as another lesson learned an be glad you found out sooner than later.

There are no more questions to ask. You have you orders - now go execute them … and get some muscle.

116

alright cya in a few months then. I’ll probably end up bumping this thread or something.

i’ll follow that 1/2 timed carb diet or whatever its called. thats basically what ive been doing here though anyway. Routine i’ll do the on Scott suggested and cardio he suggested i stop HIIT (even though i like it so much more :frowning: ) and i’ll do steady state low intensity 3x or so a week (days im not working out).
i have to workout in about an hour…decision time for exactly when im gonna switch. i guess now’s as good a time as ever

i’ll check results every month or so like suggested.

117

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Man, I’m late for the show…

You know Pumped, it’s not that the Pro’s routines are impossible or anything… if you can do them and keep upping the weights you use, then where is the issue?

2-4 exercises per bodypart with one light warmup set and 3 work sets of increasing resistance and either decreasing reps or similar reps, that is basic stuff…

You may find it difficult to train your whole body twice a week that way, but hitting each bodypart once a week and weak parts twice or so is one of those never-failing routines that get you big if you just eat and sleep enough and keep on using bigger weights…

Most successful natties train like that, too, not just assisted guys.

And as a beginner, it truly doesn’t matter what routine you do, as long as it isn’t outlandishly stupid.

i agree with that. I was referring to pro routines with 20 sets for some muscles. I know some pro’s do train with less volume and i dont see a problem with that.

jehovasfitness wrote:

WHAT? 13% is not fat and at his height and weight I bet he looks like a rail. He needs to stuff his face of good quality food and train hard. with his genetics it will be real hard for him to get "fat’ I bet.

of course the OP’s not fat. but when your really muscular you start looking fatter at higher bf%…i saw a pic of Jay cutler once leaning over his food eating. He doesnt let his bodyfat get too high but he looked pretty damn fat. Lets drop that though because clearly it wont get anywhere.

And clearly it would not be hard for the OP to get fat with his genetics considering he’s stated that he puts fat on easily and used to be fat but cut down to be too skinny.

[/quote]

Ok, god knows I’m patient enough in real life, but this is the internet.
So…

You need to stop writing and start reading everything the vets have written on such topics.

You have no clue about anything related to bodybuilding and strength training in general.

Whatever you think is right is usually the other way 'round.

It is absolutely fine to get your BF up to 16-20 in preparation of a bulk and then keep it there for the duration of said bulk.

Or you let it increase slowly over the course of the bulking phase, whatever you like.

Stop talking when people who have vastly more experience than you are nearby and just listen to what they have to say.

20 sets per bodypart? The routine either came from a musclemag, in which case it’s usually made up bullshit that the Pro in question has never done or written, or it’s from Arnold and his sidekicks, in which case it’s likely also bullshit coming straight from the Weider empire.

And it’s not as if Arnold actually did all (or any) of his myriads of sets to failure.

He used the same approach as most BB’ers today, increasing the weight set after set, with the first few serving as warm-up and maybe the last one going all out.

Todays pros usually do 8-16 sets per muscle-group, and the way they do them (which is not usually explained in the article) generally makes it entirely possible to follow the same program and make gains.

Just make sure it’s not a fantasy routine made up by some moronic, 150 lbs at 6 feet 4 musclemag writer.

Many (well, most actually) writer’s who advocate doing 1 or 2 sets per exercise are talking about work sets or all-out sets only, they usually include some fine-print about “do 2-3 warmup sets…” in their articles (or just leave that out entirely).

This way, they can make it look as if their program was super low volume or whatever, while in truth it’s really the same as everything else… maybe a few exercises less or so, but it’s still 3-6 sets (i.e. warmups and work sets) per exercise.

118

ok im reading a little more about that simple powerbuilding routine. i think thats good because its clearing up some points and more importantly its getting me more “siked” for it if that makes sense which i think is important so i’m not just half-assing it and thinking it wont work.
apparently the warm up sets are like ramping sets and then i have 2-3 work sets with the last one being 1 rep short of failure. it seems like that thread goes back and forth on the opinion but it looks like that means i can just barely get the last completed rep. probably not a big thing to worry about anyway

1.Scott (or someone else who knows) if you dont mind i’ll ask here since it’ll take too long there. lets say im doing squats (doing them today) for 2x5. an example if working with 185 would be warm up as 45x5, 95x5, 135x5, then 2x185x5 correct? i know warm ups are not exactly defined for everyone but thats the general idea right, ramping them up?

  1. do i increase warm up weight in future workouts? i did on bill starrs 5x5 but dont know if im supposed to here

                                        Thanks
119

The bigger the weight more warmup you need.
135LBS ???
Erm thats like what 60kgs ?
My girfriend does 87.5 for 6 :slight_smile:

You REALLY need to start working out more !

Also 2 sets of 5 ???
That seems a waste of time … 2 sets of 5 wont really do much in the way of growth …

What program are you doing… and if you say muscle and fitness…

But to answer if its 135:

Whatever amount of reps you do for your main do for your warmup:

So say 15 of 70lbs
15 of 100lbs
1*5 of 120lbs

And off you go, but seriously 2 sets of 5 ???

120

Also how long did you stay on the 5*5 ???
A week ?
You SURELY would have gained more strength off that for your squats than 135lbs ???

And yes as i answered the higher the weight, more warmups;

Like say mine for 190kg back squat used to be:

Is: 100kg for 6
140kg for 6
150kg for 3
170kg for 6

And off i go. Some use more, some use less