5x5
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
consistency[/quote]
You got that one right. I remember having some old gym vet tell me the same thing one day.
Train hard, eat big, Rest
Set strength goals and do whatever it takes to reach them. Use any method you want; many different methods can work.
If you are training for size, and you don’t have a clear 6-month target for your:
squat
pull
bench
military press
chin
row
curl
close-grip
…then you are short-changing yourself. Do whatever it takes to get these lifts moving up on a steady basis and you will grow.
consistent change. Almost any program done correctly and intensly will garner results, but done too long you will plateau on even the best program.
[quote]Scott M wrote:
Craziest thing I can remember that got someone huge? Everything Paul Dillet did. [/quote]
Hahaha truth. With some of the things I’ve read he could glance at the Keiser pneumatic chest press machine and POOF = MASS!!!
[quote]OneMoreRep wrote:
consistent change. Almost any program done correctly and intensly will garner results, but done too long you will plateau on even the best program. [/quote]
Honestly I don’t see this happening in the real world. It seems to be “common knowledge” on internet forums but when you look at the biggest guys in gyms pretty much all of them aren’t switching it up every 4-8 weeks. People hate when I use pro bodybuilders as examples but I’m doing it again because I have a feeling you don’t go to the same gym as me and this is the best way to name commonly known people.
Ronnie Coleman, same basic split since I saw his first DVD
David Henry, same DC split for the past 3 years(huge jump in stage weight)
Johnnie Jackson, same basic power exercises like the above two
For another perspective, Chuck Vogephol(sp?), same Westside training template for a good 15-20 years now and is continuing to set powerlifting records.
Do I have to go on?
I am not seeing these guys do 8 weeks of powerbuilding in one DVD and turn around and do Super Slow or Max-OT or the latest Chad Waterbury program in the next.
There’s a lot of people on this site that “keep their bodies off balance” by changing to the next article’s routine every few weeks but I’m not seeing the physiques to back it up yet.
While I agree that there are certain principles/exercises/sets and reps that you should keep going back to time and time again as your staple to shun other methods would also be foolish. Change could also be more minute than massive changes such as a Super Slow to westside training but could be adding an extra rep/set or slightly decreasing rest periods.
So definately keep doing what works for you per your specific goal but I still stand by that even the best program is only as useful as it keeps producing physiological changes. Considering we are adaptive organisms that will not be forever and you will be forced to change.
Ultimately though I don’t think we’re that far off random change just for the sake of change or as you stated following the newest routine in a magazine is pointless but never altering anything, ever is also a recipe for stagnation.
I would also shy away from using pro bodybuilders as examples because when you bring them in you bring in other factors that affect causality, i.e. their drug use and sheer genetic gifts.
Additionally, the veracity of an exercise regime is not always proportional to the size of the biceps on the individual telling it to you.
But thats more of a side note because your argument still raised a valid point.
Craziest way to get big and strong would probably be uber newbs log in the strength forum all he does is eat junk food-well not all but he eats lot of crap- and seems to get bigger and stronger every month.
simple way 2x protein per bodyweight at least, lots of food lots of rest lots of heavy lifting.
[quote]shizen wrote:
Craziest way to get big and strong would probably be uber newbs log in the strength forum all he does is eat junk food-well not all but he eats lot of crap- and seems to get bigger and stronger every month.
simple way 2x protein per bodyweight at least, lots of food lots of rest lots of heavy lifting. [/quote]
Do you have a link? I’d like to study this program.
[quote]OneMoreRep wrote:
I would also shy away from using pro bodybuilders as examples because when you bring them in you bring in other factors that affect causality, i.e. their drug use and sheer genetic gifts.
Additionally, the veracity of an exercise regime is not always proportional to the size of the biceps on the individual telling it to you.
But thats more of a side note because your argument still raised a valid point. [/quote]
I personally hate this perspective. I wanted to be big when I was a kid…so I listened to the big guys. Now, I am one of the big guys and people ask me shit now. Until I hear someone bigger than me tell me not to listen to the larger bodybuilders, I will forever be grateful I did not close my ears based on some notion that the biggest bodybuilders are clueless and therefore, you will learn less from them.
This idea seems to be held by those who consider themselves “average”. I’m not average and I hate that there seems to be an effort to act as if every newbie is sitting in the wading area of the gene pool.
Yes, there are those who are so genetically gifted that all they have to do is look at some weights and grow. However, if you honestly believe that even the majority of the guys walking around who are very large got that way without hard work and extreme effort in the gym and the kitchen, you are kidding yourself.
People tend to only focus in on the end result. Just because some guy is 250lbs or bigger now it doesn’t mean he didn’t work his ass off to get there.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
OneMoreRep wrote:
I would also shy away from using pro bodybuilders as examples because when you bring them in you bring in other factors that affect causality, i.e. their drug use and sheer genetic gifts.
Additionally, the veracity of an exercise regime is not always proportional to the size of the biceps on the individual telling it to you.
But thats more of a side note because your argument still raised a valid point.
I personally hate this perspective. I wanted to be big when I was a kid…so I listened to the big guys. Now, I am one of the big guys and people ask me shit now. Until I hear someone bigger than me tell me not to listen to the larger bodybuilders, I will forever be grateful I did not close my ears based on some notion that the biggest bodybuilders are clueless and therefore, you will learn less from them.
This idea seems to be held by those who consider themselves “average”. I’m not average and I hate that there seems to be an effort to act as if every newbie is sitting in the wading area of the gene pool.
Yes, there are those who are so genetically gifted that all they have to do is look at some weights and grow. However, if you honestly believe that even the majority of the guys walking around who are very large got that way without hard work and extreme effort in the gym and the kitchen, you are kidding yourself.
People tend to only focus in on the end result. Just because some guy is 250lbs or bigger now it doesn’t mean he didn’t work his ass off to get there.[/quote]
Beat me to it.
I would add that in any area of life you want to improve on - find someone that is who you want to be and do what they do.
Bodybuilding is no different.
I for one understand the genetic gifts that pro bodybuilders have and at this point have figured out that drugs are part of the game. Problem is, the guys I listed are/were getting bigger and better than their peers. How many guys turned pro at 167 lbs and now compete around 215(and growing)? The list of pros in the last few years who put nearly 50 lbs on their stage weight since turning pro would be pretty short I’d imagine.
I won’t make this suspenseful and just tell you it’s David Henry. This guy is 5’5 at best(so 48 lbs is HUGE) and is cracking the elite of the sport because he packs so much mass on his frame. Can’t we learn a thing or two from guys like that are adding mass year after year when tons of his peers are competing approximately the same each and every show?
All of them have elite genetics, all of them have access to the same drugs and trainers and what have you, but what separates guys like David from his peers? If you want the answers watch the 2006(I think) battle for the Olympia and listen to David explain how and why he trains.
Okay I absolutely see your point. However, what I am saying is that just because someone is “big” (what definition you use for that is variable) does not mean in and of itself that he is a credible source. He (or she) may be and I would not write anyone off who has amassed appreciable size but I would not use that as the sole determining factor to discern the validity of this person’s information.
[quote]OneMoreRep wrote:
However, what I am saying is that just because someone is “big” (what definition you use for that is variable) does not mean in and of itself that he is a credible source. [/quote]
That would make them an incredible source.
We agree.
Everything everyone has said, but moreso the ability to individualize and apply info to yourself…to “absorb what is useful.” That is honestly the key.
You know, honestly, what people don’t understand or acknowledge about pro bodybuilders is that a lot of them don’t work forty hours a week, raise a family, own a business, go to college, or do whatever everyone here does besides bodybuild. And that’s okay…personally, I figure out what works for me, and I like it, but the thing is that I know what I do would be more effective for me if I had unlimited recovery, 8-10 meals per day, and more control over my stressors/environment.
This isn’t a bitch in the vein of “pro bodybuilders have better genetics and drugs,” it’s just an observation. The more of your time and energy you are willing to dedicate to bodybuilding, the better you will be at it. You can’t be Ronnie Coleman, etc, without devoting most of your time to the sport. Same goes for Olympic athletes and so on, and for people who are good at bodybuilding or any sport, to some degree. You make trade-offs and you compromise.
The program they do isn’t necessarily what makes or breaks their physique. It’s the level of dedication, time, and the willingness to take that time.
progressive overload
[quote]conwict wrote:
Everything everyone has said, but moreso the ability to individualize and apply info to yourself…to “absorb what is useful.” That is honestly the key.[/quote]
People think too much. It is impossible for a young trainee to know enough about his body to be able to individualize anything. This is why this site is full of 145 pound waifs scratching their heads and wondering why nothing works.
Here’s some simple truths for the young trainee:
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There is no such thing as over training
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You don’t know shit.
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You won’t learn a damn thing from anyone in the gym that is the same size, or smaller than you are.
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1200 calories is not eating to grow.
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Being sore is a good thing.
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My favorite - from Dave Tate: You can’t flex bone.