General Advice for a Complete Beginner

Training
21

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
I can’t take too much credit. All I did was help him get started and give him an idea of where his strength could be in a year or two if he sticks with it and helped him with a program and fixed his technique and worked on his nutrition.[/quote]
Fixed. :wink:

I’m just saying, without a doubt he put in a ton of effort, but don’t sell yourself short either. Sometimes, being a “teacher” is a great way to bump your own progress as well, since it forces you to take a different perspective when approaching things.

Definitely great to hear about the progress, and even moreso since he kept going full throttle even when your schedules changed. I’d say that’s a sign the lifting bug has sunk its teeth in for sure.

22

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]twojarslave wrote:
I can’t take too much credit. All I did was help him get started and give him an idea of where his strength could be in a year or two if he sticks with it and helped him with a program and fixed his technique and worked on his nutrition.[/quote]
Fixed. :wink:

I’m just saying, without a doubt he put in a ton of effort, but don’t sell yourself short either. Sometimes, being a “teacher” is a great way to bump your own progress as well, since it forces you to take a different perspective when approaching things.

Definitely great to hear about the progress, and even moreso since he kept going full throttle even when your schedules changed. I’d say that’s a sign the lifting bug has sunk its teeth in for sure.[/quote]

As a matter of fact, my squat went up a LOT not long after taking him under my wing. And YOU, Chris Colucci, get some of that credit.

Scrolling up in this thread, you can see that I did not own a copy of Rippetoe’s Starting Strength when I began training him, but I was aware of what the program was and of Rip’s credentials as a strength coach.

You passively guilt-tripped me into buying that book, because if I was going to recommend something to a friend I had damn well better understand what I was telling him to do. We did not end up doing SS, but I definitely applied many of the techniques I learned in that book as a “teacher” and as a lifter.

Today I am squatting about 70 pounds more (for reps) than I was when I started this thread, and all of my other lifts have continued to go up. Taking someone under my wing was definitely beneficial to me as a lifter. No doubt about it.

23

I wish I had a twojarslave when I first started lifting.

24

[quote]Mizery wrote:
I wish I had a twojarslave when I first started lifting.[/quote]

Just plant a baby somewhere and feed it lots of steak, beer and potatoes for 34 years. If it cries, put some Beavis and Butthead on. Once it can do calculus on its own, have it start lifting weights.

Wait one year after that and you will have your own twojarslave.

25

I just stumbled onto this thread. It’s really remarkable.

I’d like to ask everyone a question, if you don’t mind. Twojarslave claims he took a guy with no athletic background and in four months flat got him benching 145 for reps, squatting 225 for 3 sets of 5, and deadlifting 295 for 5. Did I get that right? My question is: can you buy that a beginner can make such massive gains? Do you believe that is actually common for beginners (or even intermediates)?

I ask because I have 40 years experience in the gym and have never seen gains even close to that. Twojarslave doesn’t describe any exotic program, just basic lifts and protein shakes. Forgive my skepticism, I’d really like to know what’s going on.

26

[quote]cavalier wrote:
I just stumbled onto this thread. It’s really remarkable.

I’d like to ask everyone a question, if you don’t mind. Twojarslave claims he took a guy with no athletic background and in four months flat got him benching 145 for reps, squatting 225 for 3 sets of 5, and deadlifting 295 for 5. Did I get that right? My question is: can you buy that a beginner can make such massive gains? Do you believe that is actually common for beginners (or even intermediates)?

I ask because I have 40 years experience in the gym and have never seen gains even close to that. Twojarslave doesn’t describe any exotic program, just basic lifts and protein shakes. Forgive my skepticism, I’d really like to know what’s going on.[/quote]

I’m not trying to be a dick, but if you’ve “never seen gains like this” I just don’t think you have seen many beginners approach things quite so sensibly. Most “beginners” fuck around for awhile with split programs (which absolutely do have their place) or machines before they figure out what they’re doing. But I find it quite believable that a guy who comes in with a no-nonsense attitude and starts attacking the compound lifts right away can make pretty rapid progress up to a basic level of strength (it obviously depends on the raw SIZE of the trainee, but let’s say benching 225 and squatting 315).

For what it’s worth…

Twojarslave himself went from being a fat, sedentary slob to deadlifting 515 (and he’s posted video to prove this) in about a year. I can certainly buy that he’s capable of coaching a buddy to deadlifting 295 four months after setting foot in the gym if the buddy is a fellow husky brute.

27

It is not common for regular people.

It is common for beginners who have the proper drive and mentality. Which is why i told twojarslave that he gives himself too little credit, because his own performance most likely rubbed off on his friend.

I have had similar results as a beginner nearly 20 years ago, as did some of my friends because we trained with very strong people who were also a little crazy.

Since you’ve been around for so long, you probably remember there were no 5Ã?5s, 531s, starting strength etc (Or maybe some of these programs existed but there was no internet culture then). Every major exercise was simply pyramided up to a top set once a week. None of us could afford protein shakes.

This year alone i have seen a 16yr old beginner take his deadlift from 225lbs for reps to 440lbs for a single at 175lbs bodyweight. He is one of very few people i’ve known that has an actual mental “on and off” switch which he can flip at will to get into “the zone”. If you’ve met this kind of person before, you will know what i’m talking about. He follows a typical bodybuilding split.

FTR i do not consider those numbers appropriate for a serious trainee to be considered intermediate unless he weighs less than 135lbs or is rehabbing an injury.

28

[quote]cavalier wrote:

benching 145 for reps, squatting 225 for 3 sets of 5, and deadlifting 295 for 5
[/quote]

I’m refereeing to these numbers, not the 440lb deadlift.

29

[quote]cavalier wrote:
I just stumbled onto this thread. It’s really remarkable.

I’d like to ask everyone a question, if you don’t mind. Twojarslave claims he took a guy with no athletic background and in four months flat got him benching 145 for reps, squatting 225 for 3 sets of 5, and deadlifting 295 for 5. Did I get that right? My question is: can you buy that a beginner can make such massive gains? Do you believe that is actually common for beginners (or even intermediates)?

I ask because I have 40 years experience in the gym and have never seen gains even close to that. Twojarslave doesn’t describe any exotic program, just basic lifts and protein shakes. Forgive my skepticism, I’d really like to know what’s going on.[/quote]

Hey there Cav. I am certainly proud of my strength gains as I am closing in on having a full year of continuous training under my belt. I am also very pleased with my friends progress. But as AG and DT already alluded to, we are by no means genetic freaks or anything all that special.

We are both large men, for one. I was a VERY large man when I began lifting, tipping the scales at around 330. My buddy is around 220. Being in the 6 ft neighborhood is also an advantage when it comes to absolute strength.

Underwear models, we are not. But a determined fat man will move more iron than the determined skinny man 9 times out of 10.

So what we have is two cases of large men who…

Train with intensity.

Train with consistency.

Train with compounds and a sensible program.

Are not pussies or excuse-makers.

Eat for strength.

Get enough sleep and lead low-stress lives in a pleasant corner of the world.

Have no notable physical handicaps.

With those factors in place, strength gains WILL happen.

With just over 11 months of barbell training I can now squat 455, deadlift 545 and bench 255 for 5. If I were to enter a serious powerlifting meet I would get smoked at my current weight.

So would my buddy.

In conclusion, we are both cases of conventional weightlifting wisdom playing out as expected. Compounds + effort + consistency = strength gains for new lifters.

No surprise whatsoever.

30

Oh and there is one other HUGE actor I forgot to mention.

I just love lifting. I would like to think that my enthusiasm has rubbed off on my buddy, but he certainly seems to have found the joy of lifting for himself.

And we both have full beards, so there is that too.

31

I’ve said this in a another thread Cav. It seems as if you refuse to believe it unfortunately. The trainee described is IMO pretty reasonable and normal. Unfortunately for you in the arena of strength training are an anomaly .

32

just saw this. kid lifted for 9 months.

squat: 440lbs (463 with wraps)
bench: 200lbs (paused)
deadlift: 450
(OHP: 143lbs)

33

[quote]dt79 wrote:

just saw this. kid lifted for 9 months.

squat: 440lbs (463 with wraps)
bench: 200lbs (paused)
deadlift: 450
(OHP: 143lbs) [/quote]

I saw that thread too. IMO, that is much more impressive than a pair of 30-something fat guys moving some iron around.

34

Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

Indeed, I’ve noticed that lifting is much easier for someone who’s already big. My guess is that carrying all that fat around is a constant exercise and builds muscle he doesn’t know he has. So he’s already been training for years without knowing it.

In my case, I started at 135 pounds and weaker than a kitten. No access to barbells, only machines, until many years later. Bad advice, even from so-called experts and trainers. True, no 5/3/1 or other stuff when I trained for many years (or I hadn’t heard of them). But. I have tried those programs and got nothing out of them.

If you check my log, you’ll notice that my last workout was great - excellent gains. Why? Because it’s taken my years to figure out what the hell is going on. Diet was good - well, almost - but then I added one more protein shake a day. Allowed for heart conditions. Settled into a hardgainer’s routine - each bodypart once per 10 days. And then one thing NOBODY saw - I was suffering from asthma attacks. Seriously? People looking at me hacking and wheezing with NO IDEA what was going on. I finally figured out breathing differently would work.

I was training at Matt Wenning’s place for one full year. They pushed me to failure on everything (with tons of sprains to boot). I was coughing and getting weak and NOBODY knew what was happening. I even asked and was told “I don’t know!”

Heck, I can show you a number of guys whom I asked “How did you get so big and strong?” and they said, “I don’t know. It just happened.” Which certainly might make it all look like a crap shoot, you luck out or you don’t.

So no, it’s not bad attitude holding me back. On the contrary, it’s taken massive drive to get me this far. I’d bet if most people had this much trouble gaining, they’d killed themselves long ago.

Which is why I’ve wondered . . . am I the only one who’s had it this hard? It amazes me how things click so quickly for everyone else and they think it’s normal for others to blow up as well. On the whole T-Nation, the only people getting protests of “You gotta be kidding” are the beginners having slow or no gains, as if that was unusual.

35

Cav come on, nobody said you have a bad attitude.

Your drive and commitment are exceptional. However do you really think your progress over the past 30 years (I forget the number) is the norm? I find you at times somewhat passive aggressive, just because someone has better strength numbers than you doesent mean they have fucking good luck and they dont work hard.

Putting myself into the equation, I have fought many things including horrible sleep patterns, erratic and abnormal work schedules, Neck injury, other medical / emotional issues along with the usual, children and wife stuff…but hey I wouldnt say my problems are any worse than anyone else. Its called fucking life. We love this so we make time for it.

You make it seems as if anyone that has had more progress than you are having it easy. You may work hard at training but its irresponsible of you to think you work harder than everyone else because you dont.

36

I started at 105lbs or 110lbs (i can’t remember) at 5’9. Forcefed my way to normal weight at 150lbs and gained another 40lbs before being assisted and then recomped and finally ended up at 210lbs with a 28 inch waist. All in a span of 7 years.

Stopped training for nearly a decade. Started seriously about a year ago and went from 135lbs (which is the weight my body prefers to be at if i don’t forcefeed myself) to 163lbs now and still gaining smoothly. Still natural although one can argument about retainment of new satelite cells etc from past AAS use but whatever.

And i have asthma. I get attacks just by laughing too hard. Not joking.

37

[quote]cavalier wrote:
Indeed, I’ve noticed that lifting is much easier for someone who’s already big.
[/quote]

Lifting is no easier for me than it is for a 130 pound man. It is not supposed to be easy, and the person who makes it harder will probably have better results, all other things being equal.

I do not see the point in getting hung up on absolute strength numbers, because context matters. I just want to be the strongest and healthiest that I can be.

38

Speaking of context… how’s the other side of the equation going? (the fat loss)

39

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
Speaking of context… how’s the other side of the equation going? (the fat loss)[/quote]

Well, since my first T-Nation post and commencement of my online log in May of this year, I have gained about 6-7 pounds, all of which is probably mostly muscle for sure.

Yep, definitely.

In all seriousness, I have had a fantastic summer in one of the best places on the planet to spend one’s summer. I partied, I ate well, I spent a lot of time on or in the water, I camped and hiked in the wilderness, and life has been generally very good.

My squat has gone from 365x1 to 455x1 and my other lifts have climbed quite a bit as well. I have never been stronger and have not felt this good since I was a teenager. I just have a lot of work to do, specifically involving the avoidance of New England’s diverse assortment of superb beers.

This will get easier as summer winds down. I am just figuring out how to fit my new love of lifting and self-improvement into the rhythm of life.

So, in conclusion, I have not lost any fat.

40

[quote]cavalier wrote:
I just stumbled onto this thread. It’s really remarkable.

I’d like to ask everyone a question, if you don’t mind. Twojarslave claims he took a guy with no athletic background and in four months flat got him benching 145 for reps, squatting 225 for 3 sets of 5, and deadlifting 295 for 5. Did I get that right? My question is: can you buy that a beginner can make such massive gains? Do you believe that is actually common for beginners (or even intermediates)?

I ask because I have 40 years experience in the gym and have never seen gains even close to that. Twojarslave doesn’t describe any exotic program, just basic lifts and protein shakes. Forgive my skepticism, I’d really like to know what’s going on.[/quote]

All those numbers are pretty typical of people that have decent physical competency (just because he doesn’t have an athletic background doesn’t mean he’s isn’t athletic, and physical jobs are comparable here too), a little size, and consistent smart training. That last being the thing you see 99% of the people who make little progress lacking.

Edit: Damn it, didn’t see page 2.