Im starting my own thread,
gear- full range of motion, hope it gets posted. I want to see what you guys think.
Although I have great respect for those that do lift without gear. I still believe that training without some gear can be hazardous for those of us that can’t train heavy raw. I have dislocated my right shoulder three times, and my left knee is blown to shit. I’m scare to death of training let alone competeing without gear. Now I not saying I walk into the gym with my Inzer Hardcore, knee wraps and power briefs on the whole time. I would fuckin die cause I’m a bitch and I can’t keep that shit on for more then a set at a time. But I do use my wraps when necessary. This goes the same for my bench shirt and suit. Yesterday was ME Squat day. I did Power squat for my first exercise which consisted of:
135x15 405x3
225x10 430x3 w/ wraps
315x5 455x3 w/ wraps
345x5 495x1 w/ wraps
365x5 515x1 w/ wraps
385x3
For better or worst I view my use of gear as tool of training my CNS and overloading my muscles. It just has better a wonderful tool in my training.
But that is just example of how I view the use of gear. I do agree that gear vs. nongear PLing are different sports. But now so much as most would think.
Then again this is just my opinion.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
superscience wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
superscience wrote:
The thing that annoys me most about it is, when somone tells me their lifts you alway have to ask their raw numbers.
Like somone will say i squatted 500, i think inside “no what can you really lift.”
Of all the posts on here, yours is the least credible.
You basically are a detractor of eveybody on here except yourself, and quite frankly, I cannot even figure out what you are/do. Not that I have spent much time on it because frankly I am disinterested.
As far as I am concerned, keep it to yourself, pal.
My opinions on geared lifting causes a lot of conflict because of my strong opinion against it.
I see no reasoning for it in the sport.
All it does is;
.Bring up arguments between raw vs gear
.Causes more danger to the lifter
.Creates a fairy tail sport
.It takes all the limelight away from raw lifting
.Its also a money making scam
So if you don’t like my strong opinions against it, don’t read my post on this topic.
-
No, people like you bring up the arguments.
-
In what way does it cause more danger. Please elaborate? I am assuming you are basing your strong opinions on your vast knowledge and experience in the sport. Tell me one experience you have had, personally, not that you heard about or saw on the internet. Just one will suffice.
-
Fairy tail sport. That’s funny. Do you compete in anything of just come on here and bash everyone else? If anybody is living in a Fairy Tail, it is you. Coming on here with your shitty little opinions and providing no information on what you are striving towards that makes you so superior to everybody else.
-
Powerlifting is not very glamorous. RAW represents a very small minority. Anybody getting into this sport to be in the limelight will be disillusioned long before the realities of gear set in.
-
Scam? What, like a pyramid scheme? You obviously are not a business owner, because you are not even demonstrating a fundamental knowledge of the dynamics. Advances in gear are market driven, not the other way around. You sound like you are 17 years old. I will almost guarantee you are under 20.
For the most part I do ignore your crap but will state that to come on here bashing PL’s and BB’s, and holding Olympic lifters up as the Gold Standard, in my world, you better be one hell of an accomplished OL or have even a basic level of experience i nall three disciplines to bring an informed opinion.
Otherwise you are just a weenie hiding behind his monitor who needs an enema. [/quote]
Since when does it matter if i compete in weightlifting or powerlifting, this topic is about geared powerlifting and thoughts towards it. Sure i could blabber on about stuff i do and what i have done etc but is it going to add anything to this argument?
I did not bring up this argument i just voiced a strong 1 sided opinion.
Are you that niave that you think geared powerlifting isn’t more dangerous. It allows people to lift weights more than their body can really lift did anyone see gene rychlak drop over 1000lbs on his chest it was so stupid looking i had to turn it off in disgust. A guy in my gym also dropped 160kg on his head because of the suit, lucky enough their was a 300lb spotter to catch it.
It is a fairy tale sport because people are sitting talking about these weights being lifted that cant really be lifted by the person alone. You could also call it a fake sport for that reason too.
And when did i ever bash bodybuilding or powerlifting, all im bashing here is geared powerlifting.
Why come out with stupid comments like i almost gaurantee your under 20, does this make you feel good about yourself?
Does it add anything to the argument apart from stupidity?
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
For the most part I do ignore your crap but will state that to come on here bashing PL’s and BB’s, and holding Olympic lifters up as the Gold Standard, in my world, you better be one hell of an accomplished OL or have even a basic level of experience i nall three disciplines to bring an informed opinion.
Otherwise you are just a weenie hiding behind his monitor who needs an enema.
even the OL arent immune. this is the same guy who said Rezazadeh should lose some weight and then he’d be even better.[/quote]
No im the guy that said a loss of some fat and a maintanence of lbm would help his lifts.
Your the guy that couldn’t read.
[quote]superscience wrote:
Your the guy that couldn’t read.[/quote]
Great quote right there.
[quote]Phill wrote:
ExNole wrote:
I think one of the best things about powerlifting is that, in theory, anybody can show up to a meet and see how they fare. It’s possible to just compete in powerlifting for fun, while bodybuilding requires a serious commitment- two months of dieting etc.
If you have to spend a few hundred bucks to be remotely competitive then its not something you can test the waters with. You have to be serious from the beginning, which I think hurts the sport.
Well sorry bud sounds pretty and yes any of us can compete in PLing, but any of us can do so in BBing. Just sign the damn sheet and GO. and they both require a serious commitment differt approaches but a hell of a commitment if you want to be anywhere near competetive raw or not. I could go today and step on the stage at a low level BB contest. Look like a fool but same would be said for someone who didnt invest the time training, eating etc who entered a PLing contest or strongman raw or no. They take commitment and god bless they should thats what should seperate the top the elite from the rest of the world.
[/quote]
Being consistent in the gym can get you strong enough to not make a fool out of yourself at a raw pl event. If your not sure if you are serious about it or just want to do it for fun, the expense is a big deterrent.
[quote]Pinto wrote:
So I think the take away from all this is:
-
If all you care about is lifting big weights- get strong, get good gear, learn how to use it, and have fun.
-
If you have enjoy competition or just dig the validation of your efforts on a public platform, learn to put up your lifts under the rules of a fed that allows you to wear the gear you want to wear.
-
If you are pained by the guilt of having performed your lifts under the fraudulent ruse of gear and wish to redeem yourself, give you suits and shirts to some kid who can’t afford good lifting gear. Then go feel good with your little honest lifts.
-
If you still feel like a fake, call that poor kid up and give him your belt and wraps. There, now you’re just like Kaz or Paul Anderson or whoever- except not as strong.
[/quote]
3 and 4
Or why not lift raw bust your ass like “Kaz or Paul Anderson” did to get where they were/are and make a respectable showing in any fed but do so raw.
Its been done it can be done again the standards are set no go fuckin break em without the use of the gear if you so choose it take hard work dedication etc.
Lift right along the geared lifters, kick ass have fun, dont be a prick respect the others for thier choice as they will you and when after you bust your ass put up some AWESOME #'s in a singlet and shoes and dont start worthless im better than you pissing matches maybe others will follow suit and do the same.
Maybe that Kid you gave your gear to will be inspired to follow suit, and others. They may want to see what thewy can do on their own after you and a few others show once again it can be done if you train HARD, smart dedicate your life to it.
Why cant we all just get along.
[quote]superscience wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
For the most part I do ignore your crap but will state that to come on here bashing PL’s and BB’s, and holding Olympic lifters up as the Gold Standard, in my world, you better be one hell of an accomplished OL or have even a basic level of experience i nall three disciplines to bring an informed opinion.
Otherwise you are just a weenie hiding behind his monitor who needs an enema.
even the OL arent immune. this is the same guy who said Rezazadeh should lose some weight and then he’d be even better.
No im the guy that said a loss of some fat and a maintanence of lbm would help his lifts.
Your the guy that couldn’t read.[/quote]
And YOU’RE the guy with poor grammatical skills.
Sorry dude, that was too easy!
[quote]RickJames wrote:
Here is what I would like to see geared lifting consist of:
-
Belt - This is just pretty standard. It does seem to help with injury, and you’d get hardly anyone lifting in a fed with these disallowed. Moreover, the standard deviation in carryover is extremely small.
-
Squat suit - Allowed, but limited to something along the lines of a Z, champion, or supersuit. Enough to provide support for injured lifters or to let you squat a little wider. Yet not enough to allow significant carryover difference for people (less than 50lbs for everybody).
-
Bench shirt - Allowed, but limited to something along the lines of a stretchy back blast shirt. The original blast shirts gave all the benefits except the carryover - protection, support, allowed banged up lifters to still compete, etc. - but no one got any significant or widely different carryover from it. Biggest drawback is that they were hell to put on. Giving them a stretchy back would help immensely with this.
-
Knee wraps - Again, something a lot of lifters will not compete without. Either limit to 2.0m for all lifters or only allow lifters in the 220 class and above to use the 2.5m.
-
Wrist wraps - These provide about zero direct carryover, but they make a lot of lifters more comfortable.
-
Forklift - Just kidding.
This list of gear would provide all of the benefits that gear honestly gives while minimizing as much as possible the issues we have with carryover. If everybody gets 50lbs from a squat suit and knee wraps, it is clear what a lifter would do raw, but they get the benefit of the gear to display this strength. The strongest guy would still win the meet and there would be world peace.
What gave me ideas for this was watching old school (70’s and 80’s) powerlifting. They had gear, yes, but it was very obvious who the strong bastards were.
[/quote]
Great post. Couldn’t agree more.
Bring on the world peace.
[quote]superscience wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
superscience wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
superscience wrote:
The thing that annoys me most about it is, when somone tells me their lifts you alway have to ask their raw numbers.
Like somone will say i squatted 500, i think inside “no what can you really lift.”
Of all the posts on here, yours is the least credible.
You basically are a detractor of eveybody on here except yourself, and quite frankly, I cannot even figure out what you are/do. Not that I have spent much time on it because frankly I am disinterested.
As far as I am concerned, keep it to yourself, pal.
My opinions on geared lifting causes a lot of conflict because of my strong opinion against it.
I see no reasoning for it in the sport.
All it does is;
.Bring up arguments between raw vs gear
.Causes more danger to the lifter
.Creates a fairy tail sport
.It takes all the limelight away from raw lifting
.Its also a money making scam
So if you don’t like my strong opinions against it, don’t read my post on this topic.
-
No, people like you bring up the arguments.
-
In what way does it cause more danger. Please elaborate? I am assuming you are basing your strong opinions on your vast knowledge and experience in the sport. Tell me one experience you have had, personally, not that you heard about or saw on the internet. Just one will suffice.
-
Fairy tail sport. That’s funny. Do you compete in anything of just come on here and bash everyone else? If anybody is living in a Fairy Tail, it is you. Coming on here with your shitty little opinions and providing no information on what you are striving towards that makes you so superior to everybody else.
-
Powerlifting is not very glamorous. RAW represents a very small minority. Anybody getting into this sport to be in the limelight will be disillusioned long before the realities of gear set in.
-
Scam? What, like a pyramid scheme? You obviously are not a business owner, because you are not even demonstrating a fundamental knowledge of the dynamics. Advances in gear are market driven, not the other way around. You sound like you are 17 years old. I will almost guarantee you are under 20.
For the most part I do ignore your crap but will state that to come on here bashing PL’s and BB’s, and holding Olympic lifters up as the Gold Standard, in my world, you better be one hell of an accomplished OL or have even a basic level of experience i nall three disciplines to bring an informed opinion.
Otherwise you are just a weenie hiding behind his monitor who needs an enema.
Since when does it matter if i compete in weightlifting or powerlifting, this topic is about geared powerlifting and thoughts towards it. Sure i could blabber on about stuff i do and what i have done etc but is it going to add anything to this argument?
I did not bring up this argument i just voiced a strong 1 sided opinion.
Are you that niave that you think geared powerlifting isn’t more dangerous. It allows people to lift weights more than their body can really lift did anyone see gene rychlak drop over 1000lbs on his chest it was so stupid looking i had to turn it off in disgust. A guy in my gym also dropped 160kg on his head because of the suit, lucky enough their was a 300lb spotter to catch it.
It is a fairy tale sport because people are sitting talking about these weights being lifted that cant really be lifted by the person alone. You could also call it a fake sport for that reason too.
And when did i ever bash bodybuilding or powerlifting, all im bashing here is geared powerlifting.
Why come out with stupid comments like i almost gaurantee your under 20, does this make you feel good about yourself?
Does it add anything to the argument apart from stupidity?
[/quote]
Oh, now you are the poor victim of all this, is that it?
Everybody reading this knows exactly what I am talking about in regard to your posts. That is, for some strange reaon, except you.
I asked you to elaborate about why gear makes the sport more dangerous, based on your experience. I asked that you not use an internet example (which you did) and then you mentioned some guy in your gym who dropped 350#'s on his head because of his “suit.” Sounds pretty contrived.
So, how about a little more cause and effect because I am assuming you are talking about a squat suit, and I am curious, unless he dumped, how the bar got over his head in the first place. If he dumped, there are a lot of reasons this could have occured and I am going to have difficulty attributing it entirely to the suit.
Actually, don’t bother because you will just dig yourself in deeper.
For what it is worth, I did not offer an opinion on the topic of gear and “danger”, so your comment on my niavete is out of context.
Here’s a hint for you. Experience in a discipline never limits a persons ability to comment, as you have just proven.
Rather, it limits their credibility.
Allow me to revisit a previous statment.
Of all the posts on here, yours is the least credible.
I’m not a powerlifter but my two pence agree with superscience. Like with a monolift, you can attempt weights you wouldn’t dare even think about if you had to walk out or not use a suit.
I know the hows, why and whatever but just saying that gear can get a bit silly and out of hand. Moonjumper (I think he is, bad memory) has the right idea with the touc with just a bar.
THANK YOU, I knew it, in all of the world, at least 1 guy would agree with me, so I’m not alone.
In a sport based on ego, test, and strength, the bigger the number, the bigger the man-bullshit.
I work out with relatively famous 1000+ squatters and 600+ benchers who when asked their numbers by people outside the sport, say that they sq 1000 and bn 600, that’s what I mean, if they have 800 to sq or 500 to bench right there, with what they are wearing, they would get crushed, so they DON’t do it, the gear does.
so much contoversy, but I guess if I could take a pill that would temporarialy make my penis 12", I guess I could also say that I have a 12" penis, at least til the pill wears off.
[quote]ah_dut wrote:
I’m not a powerlifter but my two pence agree with superscience. Like with a monolift, you can attempt weights you wouldn’t dare even think about if you had to walk out or not use a suit.
I know the hows, why and whatever but just saying that gear can get a bit silly and out of hand. Moonjumper (I think he is, bad memory) has the right idea with the touc with just a bar.[/quote]
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
superscience wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
superscience wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
superscience wrote:
The thing that annoys me most about it is, when somone tells me their lifts you alway have to ask their raw numbers.
Like somone will say i squatted 500, i think inside “no what can you really lift.”
Of all the posts on here, yours is the least credible.
You basically are a detractor of eveybody on here except yourself, and quite frankly, I cannot even figure out what you are/do. Not that I have spent much time on it because frankly I am disinterested.
As far as I am concerned, keep it to yourself, pal.
My opinions on geared lifting causes a lot of conflict because of my strong opinion against it.
I see no reasoning for it in the sport.
All it does is;
.Bring up arguments between raw vs gear
.Causes more danger to the lifter
.Creates a fairy tail sport
.It takes all the limelight away from raw lifting
.Its also a money making scam
So if you don’t like my strong opinions against it, don’t read my post on this topic.
-
No, people like you bring up the arguments.
-
In what way does it cause more danger. Please elaborate? I am assuming you are basing your strong opinions on your vast knowledge and experience in the sport. Tell me one experience you have had, personally, not that you heard about or saw on the internet. Just one will suffice.
-
Fairy tail sport. That’s funny. Do you compete in anything of just come on here and bash everyone else? If anybody is living in a Fairy Tail, it is you. Coming on here with your shitty little opinions and providing no information on what you are striving towards that makes you so superior to everybody else.
-
Powerlifting is not very glamorous. RAW represents a very small minority. Anybody getting into this sport to be in the limelight will be disillusioned long before the realities of gear set in.
-
Scam? What, like a pyramid scheme? You obviously are not a business owner, because you are not even demonstrating a fundamental knowledge of the dynamics. Advances in gear are market driven, not the other way around. You sound like you are 17 years old. I will almost guarantee you are under 20.
For the most part I do ignore your crap but will state that to come on here bashing PL’s and BB’s, and holding Olympic lifters up as the Gold Standard, in my world, you better be one hell of an accomplished OL or have even a basic level of experience i nall three disciplines to bring an informed opinion.
Otherwise you are just a weenie hiding behind his monitor who needs an enema.
Since when does it matter if i compete in weightlifting or powerlifting, this topic is about geared powerlifting and thoughts towards it. Sure i could blabber on about stuff i do and what i have done etc but is it going to add anything to this argument?
I did not bring up this argument i just voiced a strong 1 sided opinion.
Are you that niave that you think geared powerlifting isn’t more dangerous. It allows people to lift weights more than their body can really lift did anyone see gene rychlak drop over 1000lbs on his chest it was so stupid looking i had to turn it off in disgust. A guy in my gym also dropped 160kg on his head because of the suit, lucky enough their was a 300lb spotter to catch it.
It is a fairy tale sport because people are sitting talking about these weights being lifted that cant really be lifted by the person alone. You could also call it a fake sport for that reason too.
And when did i ever bash bodybuilding or powerlifting, all im bashing here is geared powerlifting.
Why come out with stupid comments like i almost gaurantee your under 20, does this make you feel good about yourself?
Does it add anything to the argument apart from stupidity?
Oh, now you are the poor victim of all this, is that it?
Everybody reading this knows exactly what I am talking about in regard to your posts. That is, for some strange reaon, except you.
I asked you to elaborate about why gear makes the sport more dangerous, based on your experience. I asked that you not use an internet example (which you did) and then you mentioned some guy in your gym who dropped 350#'s on his head because of his “suit.” Sounds pretty contrived.
So, how about a little more cause and effect because I am assuming you are talking about a squat suit, and I am curious, unless he dumped, how the bar got over his head in the first place. If he dumped, there are a lot of reasons this could have occured and I am going to have difficulty attributing it entirely to the suit.
Actually, don’t bother because you will just dig yourself in deeper.
For what it is worth, I did not offer an opinion on the topic of gear and “danger”, so your comment on my niavete is out of context.
Here’s a hint for you. Experience in a discipline never limits a persons ability to comment, as you have just proven.
Rather, it limits their credibility.
Allow me to revisit a previous statment.
Of all the posts on here, yours is the least credible.[/quote]
He dropped 160kg (his raw 2 rep max) on his head trying to bring it to his chest and since when did i say i was the victim.
Just because my opinion of geared powerlifting is completly against it doesn’t make it less credible.
Everything i said about geared lifting is what i believe.
Why would you assume i was talking about a squat suit when he was benching? :s
If i contrived the 160kg dropping on the guys head scenario, why would i say it was lucky there were a 300lb guy to spot him. Do you not think i would of said something like; it dropped on his head and left him with a serious head injury.
If itll make you happy ill even post you a link to the guy that spotted him if you want.
I really believe all the points i said about geared lifting. I even said it was a money making scam because of the first points. I am assuming you powerlift with gear so; what you should do (instead of bashing me and what i believe) is; Try to convince me in why gear is good for the sport.
.Tell me why it isn’t more dangerous.
.Tell me why it isn’t a sport with fairy tale lifts.
.Tell me why it is good for the sport.
That is an excellent idea because it sets a (less) ambiguous standard than just describing the equipment. My idea was that you have to put on all of your equipment yourself during your alotted lifting time. I was told that’s impossible.
[quote]moonjumper wrote:
You are so correct. hallaluah brother, one problem, if you saw the new RageX or Viking single ply bench shirts you would laugh.
Here’s my idea: You must perform a full range motion with you gear on before lifting in it. for ex, squat full depth with no weight or help before squatting with weight, bench just the bar to chest before benching in shirt, get it?
[/quote]
[quote]superscience wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
For the most part I do ignore your crap but will state that to come on here bashing PL’s and BB’s, and holding Olympic lifters up as the Gold Standard, in my world, you better be one hell of an accomplished OL or have even a basic level of experience i nall three disciplines to bring an informed opinion.
Otherwise you are just a weenie hiding behind his monitor who needs an enema.
even the OL arent immune. this is the same guy who said Rezazadeh should lose some weight and then he’d be even better.
No im the guy that said a loss of some fat and a maintanence of lbm would help his lifts.
Your the guy that couldn’t read.[/quote]
you’ve already been called out twice on your poor grammatical skills, so i’ll ignore that.
but when people say “lose weight” it’s all but understood that they mean lose fat and maintain lean body mass. NOWHERE did i say that you claimed a loss of lean body mass would help rezazadeh. i accurately representeed your point of view and you know it
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
superscience wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
For the most part I do ignore your crap but will state that to come on here bashing PL’s and BB’s, and holding Olympic lifters up as the Gold Standard, in my world, you better be one hell of an accomplished OL or have even a basic level of experience i nall three disciplines to bring an informed opinion.
Otherwise you are just a weenie hiding behind his monitor who needs an enema.
even the OL arent immune. this is the same guy who said Rezazadeh should lose some weight and then he’d be even better.
No im the guy that said a loss of some fat and a maintanence of lbm would help his lifts.
Your the guy that couldn’t read.
you’ve already been called out twice on your poor grammatical skills, so i’ll ignore that.
but when people say “lose weight” it’s all but understood that they mean lose fat and maintain lean body mass. NOWHERE did i say that you claimed a loss of lean body mass would help rezazadeh. i accurately representeed your point of view and you know it[/quote]
I supported my point of view with a study, plus my own experience in dieting. I don’t know why you find my point of view so hard to understand.
because studies are done under laboratory conditions and i really couldnt care less about “your experiences dieting” considering that YOU DONT DO ANYTHING.
and if thats inaccurate, please , refute that with something, anything objective. APW already called you out on not being a competitive bodybuilder, not a competitive OLer, you just dont step onto the platform to put your money where your mouth is and have your performance judged by objective standards. Rezazadeh is arguably the most dominant olympic lifter, ever. THATS why im calling you on it
[quote]superscience wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
superscience wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
apwsearch wrote:
For the most part I do ignore your crap but will state that to come on here bashing PL’s and BB’s, and holding Olympic lifters up as the Gold Standard, in my world, you better be one hell of an accomplished OL or have even a basic level of experience i nall three disciplines to bring an informed opinion.
Otherwise you are just a weenie hiding behind his monitor who needs an enema.
even the OL arent immune. this is the same guy who said Rezazadeh should lose some weight and then he’d be even better.
No im the guy that said a loss of some fat and a maintanence of lbm would help his lifts.
Your the guy that couldn’t read.
you’ve already been called out twice on your poor grammatical skills, so i’ll ignore that.
but when people say “lose weight” it’s all but understood that they mean lose fat and maintain lean body mass. NOWHERE did i say that you claimed a loss of lean body mass would help rezazadeh. i accurately representeed your point of view and you know it
I supported my point of view with a study, plus my own experience in dieting. I don’t know why you find my point of view so hard to understand. [/quote]
I think the major problem is you claiming to know better than the current olympic champion and world record holder.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
because studies are done under laboratory conditions and i really couldnt care less about “your experiences dieting” considering that YOU DONT DO ANYTHING.
and if thats inaccurate, please , refute that with something, anything objective. APW already called you out on not being a competitive bodybuilder, not a competitive OLer, you just dont step onto the platform to put your money where your mouth is and have your performance judged by objective standards. Rezazadeh is arguably the most dominant olympic lifter, ever. THATS why im calling you on it[/quote]
What you mean i don’t do anything, ive been lifting for over 4 years now, unfortunately im out now with a stupid injury.
I don’t compete because of where i live, there is no competitions apart from strongman. When i do to uni next year i will compete in sprinting.
I know rezaza is the most dominant lifter around. I respect everything he has done, hes a freak of nature, BUT that doesn’t mean there ISN’T room for improvement.