Game of Thrones 2: A Clash of Kings

Off Topic
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[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
SPOILERS TIL STORM OF SWORDS

[quote]John Romaniello wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]John Romaniello wrote:
I think the portrayal of Cersei is going to be different, since they are taking even further steps to demonize Joff.

She seems less dimwitted on the show than in the books, and I think that the writers realize that without the first person perspective and being able to see how truly batshit Cersei is, there is ZERO percent chance they can realistically convince the audience that she believes Tyrion doesn’t know. [/quote]

So, assuming you’re right, I would think that her relationship with Margery would be different as well … and since her crazy paranoia regarding Margery fuels the plot that has her winding up in the Grand Septon’s tower … how do you think she ends up there, or will she?[/quote]

Actually, you touched on my initial thought: that Margery would be the catalyst for Cersei’s tip from “bitch mode” to “full on crazy.” Essentially, she is cozy and warm when she is in comfortable knowing two things.

  1. She’s the hottest bitch in town
  2. She’s got the power of queen, because the would-be Queen doesn’t want anything to do with it.

When Margery shows up, not only is Cersei dealing with her feelings of being the replaced by someone younger and prettier, but also WANTS to be queen.

In other words, a legitimate threat.

(Essentially, it’s when an aging hot girl sees that she is no longer THE hot girl; the younger girl who replaced her is automatically a ‘slut’)

Not being able to cope, Cersei take a sharp left into Crazytown…all of which would allow them to win up in the same place at the same time.
[/quote]

I agree with this. Cersei doesn’t expose herself as an insecure, ill-prepared “queen” until Joff dies, Tommen becomes King, and Tyrion is run off.

The main reason Margery makes Cersei so crazy is the prophecy told to her by Maggy the Frog, which has haunted her for many years:

“Aye. Queen you shall be… until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.”[/quote]

Good point … I know Cersei interprets it as Margery is the younger queen; but I wonder if it’s actually intended to be Danerys…[/quote]

That’s a possibility.

I also don’t agree with whoever drew the parallel between Cersei and Dany in the books. True, they both leave a lot to be desired as rulers. The key difference is that Dany KNOWS and admits that she has a lot to learn, while Cersei refuses to admit that anything that goes wrong is ever her fault.

Dany is also a teenage girl, and Cersei is a goddamned grown woman with kids. I think Daenerys will eventually prove to be a great queen. She acknowledges her faults and truly loves her people, while Cersei only loves herself.

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[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Dany is also a teenage girl, and Cersei is a goddamned grown woman with kids. I think Daenerys will eventually prove to be a great queen. She acknowledges her faults and truly loves her people, while Cersei only loves herself.[/quote]

Age and determination will trump youth and inexperience every time~

283

[quote]Edgy wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Dany is also a teenage girl, and Cersei is a goddamned grown woman with kids. I think Daenerys will eventually prove to be a great queen. She acknowledges her faults and truly loves her people, while Cersei only loves herself.[/quote]

Age and determination will trump youth and inexperience every time~[/quote]

John McCain lost to Barrack Obama … just sayin :slight_smile:

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[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Dany is also a teenage girl, and Cersei is a goddamned grown woman with kids. I think Daenerys will eventually prove to be a great queen. She acknowledges her faults and truly loves her people, while Cersei only loves herself.[/quote]

Age and determination will trump youth and inexperience every time~[/quote]

John McCain lost to Barrack Obama … just sayin :)[/quote]

ooooh~

good point.

carry on~

285

[quote]Edgy wrote:

[quote]polo77j wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Dany is also a teenage girl, and Cersei is a goddamned grown woman with kids. I think Daenerys will eventually prove to be a great queen. She acknowledges her faults and truly loves her people, while Cersei only loves herself.[/quote]

Age and determination will trump youth and inexperience every time~[/quote]

John McCain lost to Barrack Obama … just sayin :)[/quote]

ooooh~

good point.

carry on~[/quote]

You’re still my favorite over-the-hill by a mile viking

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[quote]polo77j wrote:

You’re still my favorite over-the-hill by a mile viking[/quote]

((blush))

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I dont know if I am mixing the books up bit it seems like te show is combining storylines from the 3rd book into this 2nd season?

I’m not complaining because the 3rd book is the best one.

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[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I think Daenerys will eventually prove to be a great queen.[/quote]

Doubtful. Have you read all of the books. She just fucks up repeatedly. The show does a good job of showing her inexperience and tantrums. Now she does try to be very good to her people which is commendable. The problem is she lets everyone else’s problems become her’s. “Oh they have slavery here? Slavery bad I’ll stop it. Oh there is some other social injustice I don’t like. Oh people die from plauge we can’t make the tough right decision. We must hold the plaugies to our chests and nurse them back to life for another day before they die.”

She hasn’t realized that her ultimate goal is across the mutha fuckin ocean and she is trying to change the way of life that has lasted for hundreds of years. It’s very similar to what Jon Snow did in and he has been having a ton of problems for it. The fact of the matter is you don’t treat people the way you want to be treated. You treat people the way they want to be treated.

That being said I love the characters because most of them are very multi-dimensional and believable.

CERSEI THEORY/POSSIBLE SPOILER

I haven’t been keeping up with all of the pages so of this thread so if this has been covered forgive me.

I really doubt I need to go into all the reasons that Cersei is crazy. Instead I’m going to focus on the irony of her irrational fear/hatred of Tyrion. One she blames him for killing her mother during child birth. Two he is a dwarf. Three the prohpecy that her younger brother/sibling will kill her. She truly fears that he will kill her espeically after Joffrey dies and he escapes. She sees him in every shadows and has crazy dreams/day dreams of him magically killing her in horrible fashions. The reason that this is ironical is because in all likelyhood Jamie is going to be the one to kill her. Hint: Cersei is the eldest child so both Jamie and Tyrion could fulfill the prophecy.

Anywho, I think the lady they have playing Cersei is doing a wonderful job and the few changes the writers did have been done for the best.

FAVORITE MOMENT, QUOTE, AND ACTOR PAIRING FROM THIS SEASON:

My absolute favorite moment this season was when Theon Greyjoy took an eyeful of the wildling woman, vigorously took a bite of his apple, then fade to brown chicken brown cow.

My favorite line was from the most recent episode. When Rob and his lady friend are about to get busy and she says something to the effect of “I hope it is a wonderful bridge”.

I’d have to say that usualy my favorite part of any episode is when Arya and Lord Tywin are together. Holy shit did those actors work the fuck out of those scenes. Their banter and incesstant smart ass remarks to each other were just awesome. I was really sad to see them part ways in the most recent episode because they worked so well together.

The guy that plays Tywin Lannister has always been a pretty decent actor but the young girl that plays Arya is just crazy talented. I honestly think that even if she grows up ugly she’ll have a good career in show biz. At least she’ll be better than that ugly no talent actor…ol’ what’s his name…Maggie gyllenhaal. That guy is just aweful.

289

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I think Daenerys will eventually prove to be a great queen.[/quote]

Doubtful. Have you read all of the books. She just fucks up repeatedly. The show does a good job of showing her inexperience and tantrums. Now she does try to be very good to her people which is commendable. The problem is she lets everyone else’s problems become her’s. “Oh they have slavery here? Slavery bad I’ll stop it. Oh there is some other social injustice I don’t like. Oh people die from plauge we can’t make the tough right decision. We must hold the plaugies to our chests and nurse them back to life for another day before they die.”

She hasn’t realized that her ultimate goal is across the mutha fuckin ocean and she is trying to change the way of life that has lasted for hundreds of years. It’s very similar to what Jon Snow did in and he has been having a ton of problems for it. The fact of the matter is you don’t treat people the way you want to be treated. You treat people the way they want to be treated.
[/quote]

She will learn from her mistakes, unlike Cersei. This was stated in the part of my post that you cut off.

290

Upon further reading I have come to retract my previous statement of ADWD being “awesome.”

I am over halfway through the book and can now see that my previous comment was a bit premature. The book is still good but they’re throwing in all these extra characters/storylines that seem very unnessecary to me. I wish he would stick to the main story and get things moving along a bit faster. I don’t need more twists/players, I need more progression.

That is all.

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[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I think Daenerys will eventually prove to be a great queen.[/quote]

Doubtful. Have you read all of the books. She just fucks up repeatedly. The show does a good job of showing her inexperience and tantrums. Now she does try to be very good to her people which is commendable. The problem is she lets everyone else’s problems become her’s. “Oh they have slavery here? Slavery bad I’ll stop it. Oh there is some other social injustice I don’t like. Oh people die from plauge we can’t make the tough right decision. We must hold the plaugies to our chests and nurse them back to life for another day before they die.”

She hasn’t realized that her ultimate goal is across the mutha fuckin ocean and she is trying to change the way of life that has lasted for hundreds of years. It’s very similar to what Jon Snow did in and he has been having a ton of problems for it. The fact of the matter is you don’t treat people the way you want to be treated. You treat people the way they want to be treated.
[/quote]

She will learn from her mistakes, unlike Cersei. This was stated in the part of my post that you cut off.[/quote]

I disagree.

Everytime she has to face the consequences caused by her mistakes, she doesn not look back and learn from, she just moves on saying “If I look back I am lost.”

If we analyze all the decisions Dany’s ever made we can conclude she just kept digging her own grave:

  • Take over the slaver cities but not raid them and instead let one become a cluster fuck and the other an angry city seeking revenge. Check

  • Ban from her company the only man who was absolutely loyal to her. Check

  • Take a medieval version of The Situation as a lover when she doesn’t know anything about the man just because he has a blue beard. Check.

  • Act as a spoiled little girl whenever she has to make an important decision, choosing the option that’s best for her moral conscience, but not the one that’s the best for everyone. Check.

  • Allow individuals infected with a deadly plague shelter. Check.

  • Never taking any time taming or learning to control the three last dragons and actually letting them grow wild. Check.

  • Failing to control the Harpy, allowing it to grow and actually control her instead. Check

I don’t hold the same opinion about Dany as I did in the past, I think she will have a big impact in westeros, but I don’t think she will ever make it as queen. I don’t even think she will end up with Snow anymore. The only thing probably capable of saving her now is Victarion with the dragon biding horn and the fleet that will liberate her city/take her back to westeros.

It will all boil down to Jon and Aegon in the end. Jon is probably Stark and Targ. Probably Azor Hai too. I think it’s been heavly implied Jon’s fate lies withing the North and the free people, so, I’ll go ahead and assume he’ll become King in the North ( whole North, including north of the wall and king of the free folk ). Aegon on the other hand will take over the south. The two will either probably end up at war or uniting agaisnt Lanisters or, the Ironborn, if Dany ends up with Victarion, which probably happens since the red priest already said so.

Holy mother of speculations batman.

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[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

I don’t hold the same opinion about Dany as I did in the past, I think she will have a big impact in westeros, but I don’t think she will ever make it as queen. I don’t even think she will end up with Snow anymore. The only thing probably capable of saving her now is Victarion with the dragon biding horn and the fleet that will liberate her city/take her back to westeros.

It will all boil down to Jon and Aegon in the end. Jon is probably Stark and Targ. Probably Azor Hai too. I think it’s been heavly implied Jon’s fate lies withing the North and the free people, so, I’ll go ahead and assume he’ll become King in the North ( whole North, including north of the wall and king of the free folk ). Aegon on the other hand will take over the south. The two will either probably end up at war or uniting agaisnt Lanisters or, the Ironborn, if Dany ends up with Victarion, which probably happens since the red priest already said so.

Holy mother of speculations batman. [/quote]

Interesting theories. It would make for an interesting final book to have all of the surviving Targaryen’s fighting each other.

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Bran will Master his ability and take control of the dragons and rule all with is little Brother and sister as his Hand after everyone else has Died from War.

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^^ False

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My only complaints about the show:

I think they should have casted someone hotter as Ygritte.
Well, if I stop and think a little bit, all female character should be hotter ('cept Brienne cause she’s supposed to be ugly), the only ones hot enough are Dany, Cersei, Shae and that other chick that teaches Dany sex stuff.

It was kind of a let down when Tonks (that chick who plays Osha) took her clothes off. Srsly.

Just saying…

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SPOILERS

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:
My only complaints about the show:

I think they should have casted someone hotter as Ygritte.
Well, if I stop and think a little bit, all female character should be hotter ('cept Brienne cause she’s supposed to be ugly), the only ones hot enough are Dany, Cersei, Shae and that other chick that teaches Dany sex stuff.

It was kind of a let down when Tonks (that chick who plays Osha) took her clothes off. Srsly.

Just saying…
[/quote]

This is like arguing that the actors that play super heroes aren’t big enough. Except you’re being even more ridiculous, since all of the female leads that are supposed to be attractive are so, with the exception of Catelyn Stark.

Would you rather have smoking hot strippers that can’t act or less attractive women that play their roles well? Rhetorical question, of course.

Also, Ygritte and Osha were never described as beautiful. If anything I think both of the actresses are too pretty for the roles.

Back to this discussion about Danaerys, I still disagree. She will be an excellent Queen. She needs a King to rule with her, since her heart is too soft to make the hard decision that will cost lives but ultimately be the correct choice, as you’ve pointed out. That will either be Jon or Aegon. I’m guessing the latter.

I do not see the Targaryens warring with one another, nor do I see the Ironborn coming anywhere near controlling dragons. If anything, Dany will take the horn from Victarion and use it herself to reign her rogue dragons (Viserion and Rhaegal) back in. She is the only one that can blow it and live.

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[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Also, Ygritte and Osha were never described as beautiful. If anything I think both of the actresses are too pretty for the roles.
.[/quote]

^^THIS.

Ygritte was not described as beautiful at all. Her character in the show is way hotter than her character in the book.

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I wrote a mile long reply to the theory subject and the post was deleted. So I’ll only write it again when I remember wtf I wrote originally.

To the actress thing, is just a thing of mine, when Ygritte was described as a redhead, I automatically assumed she looked like Emma Watson with red hair.

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I know the battle was taking place at night, but the episode was too damn dark (lighting wise) IMO. It was hard to see what was going on, even in the 720P broadcast.

I’m one of the ones who hasn’t read the books, so I can’t comment if they followed them or not, but Cersei’s statements in the episode kept me going back and forth between feeling sorry for her and wanting her head chopped off.

She seems to be getting more and more crazy with each episode.

300

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
I know the battle was taking place at night, but the episode was too damn dark (lighting wise) IMO. It was hard to see what was going on, even in the 720P broadcast.

I’m one of the ones who hasn’t read the books, so I can’t comment if they followed them or not, but Cersei’s statements in the episode kept me going back and forth between feeling sorry for her and wanting her head chopped off.

She seems to be getting more and more crazy with each episode.[/quote]
She’s definitely getting crazier.

But I agree completely. I thought something was off in the battle, but now that you said it, it definitely was too dark.