Game of Thrones 2: A Clash of Kings

Off Topic
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[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I think Daenerys will eventually prove to be a great queen.[/quote]

Doubtful. Have you read all of the books. She just fucks up repeatedly. The show does a good job of showing her inexperience and tantrums. Now she does try to be very good to her people which is commendable. The problem is she lets everyone else’s problems become her’s. “Oh they have slavery here? Slavery bad I’ll stop it. Oh there is some other social injustice I don’t like. Oh people die from plauge we can’t make the tough right decision. We must hold the plaugies to our chests and nurse them back to life for another day before they die.”

She hasn’t realized that her ultimate goal is across the mutha fuckin ocean and she is trying to change the way of life that has lasted for hundreds of years. It’s very similar to what Jon Snow did in and he has been having a ton of problems for it. The fact of the matter is you don’t treat people the way you want to be treated. You treat people the way they want to be treated.
[/quote]

She will learn from her mistakes, unlike Cersei. This was stated in the part of my post that you cut off.[/quote]

I disagree.

Everytime she has to face the consequences caused by her mistakes, she doesn not look back and learn from, she just moves on saying “If I look back I am lost.”

If we analyze all the decisions Dany’s ever made we can conclude she just kept digging her own grave:

  • Take over the slaver cities but not raid them and instead let one become a cluster fuck and the other an angry city seeking revenge. Check

  • Ban from her company the only man who was absolutely loyal to her. Check

  • Take a medieval version of The Situation as a lover when she doesn’t know anything about the man just because he has a blue beard. Check.

  • Act as a spoiled little girl whenever she has to make an important decision, choosing the option that’s best for her moral conscience, but not the one that’s the best for everyone. Check.

  • Allow individuals infected with a deadly plague shelter. Check.

  • Never taking any time taming or learning to control the three last dragons and actually letting them grow wild. Check.

  • Failing to control the Harpy, allowing it to grow and actually control her instead. Check

I don’t hold the same opinion about Dany as I did in the past, I think she will have a big impact in westeros, but I don’t think she will ever make it as queen. I don’t even think she will end up with Snow anymore. The only thing probably capable of saving her now is Victarion with the dragon biding horn and the fleet that will liberate her city/take her back to westeros.

It will all boil down to Jon and Aegon in the end. Jon is probably Stark and Targ. Probably Azor Hai too. I think it’s been heavly implied Jon’s fate lies withing the North and the free people, so, I’ll go ahead and assume he’ll become King in the North ( whole North, including north of the wall and king of the free folk ). Aegon on the other hand will take over the south. The two will either probably end up at war or uniting agaisnt Lanisters or, the Ironborn, if Dany ends up with Victarion, which probably happens since the red priest already said so.

Holy mother of speculations batman. [/quote]

Digging her own grave? She was essentially sold into slavery and now has three dragons, has “won” three (four?) battles, and is the leader of a major city. I wish I could dig like that :wink:

Will she be a good ruler? I don’t know. Will there be fire and blood? Check. Maybe she’ll end up like the young wolf… or maybe Tyrion will finally end up with her and become hand to help her rule.

That infatuated, dishonorable spy? He would have probably lost it and sold her out whenever it dawned on him that she would never make him king. Anyway, he dug his own grave with the way he acted. Had he followed Barriston’s (sp?) lead, he would have still been with her. Anyway, I’d guess he’ll end up back with her now that he knows that slavery is wrong, mmmkay?

Too true. Stupid girl. I hope he’s dead.

You utilitarian you.

lol, god I love these books.

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the show didnt really follow the book in relation to what happened in the battle and precisely what characters were doing. but i read that there were funding issues - they were at the point where the episode would have been focused on Cersi, Sansa et al with soldiers reporting to them, us not seeing the battle.

two good things:
Stannis being a BAMF - seriously hulking out and killing bitches
Bronn singing ‘the rains of castermere’ over the credits -should have saved it for the red wedding though

two not okay things:
Podrick Payne not being the BAMF he was in the book
NOT LONG ENOUGH - seriously, there is only 45mins worth of stuff each episode. in an ideal world, each one would be a good 1.5 hours

Too dark? - they’re filming at night, while it’s raining, on set in a quarry in Ireland which they want to hide. its going to be dark

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[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

Digging her own grave? She was essentially sold into slavery and now has three dragons, has “won” three (four?) battles, and is the leader of a major city. I wish I could dig like that :wink: [/quote]

I’ve always thought she dramatized the “sold” part a little bit. She was given to a powerfull “lord” for marriage. How is this any different than what happens to other characters like Cersei ( “given” to Robert to settle an alliance ); Sansa (“given” to Joffrey, later Tyrion, also for alliances, later for the claim of Winterfell ) and Catelyn ( forced to marry Ned to secure Tully-Stark/Tully-Aryn alliance ? ).

She has three dragons she treated like house cats until she realized they weren’t like cats and went and killed some people and a child.

I’ll give her props for the battles.

I don’t think Jorah ever wanted to be king, he fell for Dany because she reminded him of his wife. And the dude was torn up about the idea of being able to return home ( which he probably thought he would never see again ) and some 14 year old with silver hair he happened to fell for. Considering love had ruined his life once, I guess most of us would have done the same thing.

Plus he knew Varys was helping Dany, at least he mentioned so. So technically, it’s not betrayal.

[quote]Too true. Stupid girl. I hope he’s dead.
[/quote]

Unlikely. He’s probably one of Dany’s betrayals, which one I have no idea. Or he’s gonna fuck something up in the future. Asshole characters tend to stick around for a while in GRRM’s books.

But it’s true…

Grey Worm: "There’s a flying spaghetti monster outside your grace. It’s throwing tomato sauce on the city.

Baristan: “We should put it down. We can even use the body to feet the people. It’s spaghetti afterall.”

Dany: “I’m just a little girl who knows nothing about Italian Food creatures… but it’s the only one of it’s kind…we should let it live.”

Baristan: “But it’s eating the people up! And the tomato sauce is ruining all the pyramids! That’s gonna affect the resale value!”

Belwas: “Feed it to me with liver and onions.”

Dany: “No. It’s a living beautifull creature. Don’t you see ? It’s calling for it’s mother… calling fo me…”

Baristan: “Mother… what the…WHATTHEHELL ?!”

Dany: “I AM DAENERYS TARGARYEN, THE DRAGONBORN, THE MOTHER OF SPAGHETTIS AND I HAVE SPOKEN!”

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The Battle was pretty epic, no complaints there, except Tyrion didn’t go bersek power-up and kille a bunch of people like he did in the novel.

Clegane cutting people in half was also epic. Bronn is one badass mofo, and Stannis is now confirmed for Charlie Bronson tier.

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[quote]caveman101 wrote:

Too dark? - they’re filming at night, while it’s raining, on set in a quarry in Ireland which they want to hide. its going to be dark[/quote]

There are lighting tricks that can be done. Of course after doing some reading, part of making it dark/less visible was to be able to do the effects on the cheap. Apparently they were way overbudget on the episode already and had to ask HBO for more money just to finish it.

Also, the show needs more Varys - Tyrion and Bronn - Tyrion talks. The banter Tyrion has with them is one of the best things on the show.

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I watched it in 720p, and the battle was quite clear.

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[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

Also, the show needs more Varys - Tyrion and Bronn - Tyrion talks. The banter Tyrion has with them is one of the best things on the show.[/quote]

Tyrion is by far the best character in the books and the show. I count the Tyrion chapters in new books before I start reading. AFFC was tough to get through without him in it.

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I’m a third of the way through A Storm of Swords part 2. Wow! I did not expect it to go down like that!

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[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

Also, the show needs more Varys - Tyrion and Bronn - Tyrion talks. The banter Tyrion has with them is one of the best things on the show.[/quote]

Tyrion is by far the best character in the books and the show. I count the Tyrion chapters in new books before I start reading. AFFC was tough to get through without him in it.[/quote]

I found AFFC so boring I skipped it and immediately read the fifth book, which was really good.

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[quote]Xav wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

Also, the show needs more Varys - Tyrion and Bronn - Tyrion talks. The banter Tyrion has with them is one of the best things on the show.[/quote]

Tyrion is by far the best character in the books and the show. I count the Tyrion chapters in new books before I start reading. AFFC was tough to get through without him in it.[/quote]

I found AFFC so boring I skipped it and immediately read the fifth book, which was really good.[/quote]

I thought about doing that as well but I’m glad I read it. It gave me a slightly different perspective on a few characters, especially Cersei.

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SPOILERS

[quote]DeltaOne wrote:

I’ve always thought she dramatized the “sold” part a little bit. She was given to a powerfull “lord” for marriage. How is this any different than what happens to other characters like Cersei ( “given” to Robert to settle an alliance ); Sansa (“given” to Joffrey, later Tyrion, also for alliances, later for the claim of Winterfell ) and Catelyn ( forced to marry Ned to secure Tully-Stark/Tully-Aryn alliance ? ).

She has three dragons she treated like house cats until she realized they weren’t like cats and went and killed some people and a child.

I’ll give her props for the battles.[/quote]

I hear you with the marriage thing. Although it wasn’t like she was being married to Renly or one of the kids in Dorne, this was some “savage” who couldn’t even speak with her and didn’t hold a castle.

She certainly isn’t a good ruler (yet?), but all I want to see of her is the fire and blood.

She DID do a hell of a lot though. Not only a queen in name any longer. And she does have some of the best imagery in the series: Walking out of the fire with her babies at her breasts…meeting the dorthraki lord half-starved, half-naked, with blood smeared all over her face and her son at her side.

[quote]
I don’t think Jorah ever wanted to be king, he fell for Dany because she reminded him of his wife. And the dude was torn up about the idea of being able to return home ( which he probably thought he would never see again ) and some 14 year old with silver hair he happened to fell for. Considering love had ruined his life once, I guess most of us would have done the same thing. [/quote]

I don’t know, I think he wanted to marry Dany. I don’t really think he was looking for power, it’s just that he fell for her and started acting like a jealous ex-boyfriend.

Did he? Does she know? I missed that. Regardless, selling news of her pregnancy for whatever reason CERTAINLY was treason, if not betrayal. Actually, come to think of it, didn’t he “giver her his sword” and then sell her out? That certainly is betrayal.

Yeah, I’m afraid so too. At least he kills people well.

lol

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[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Xav wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]waldo21212 wrote:

Also, the show needs more Varys - Tyrion and Bronn - Tyrion talks. The banter Tyrion has with them is one of the best things on the show.[/quote]

Tyrion is by far the best character in the books and the show. I count the Tyrion chapters in new books before I start reading. AFFC was tough to get through without him in it.[/quote]

I found AFFC so boring I skipped it and immediately read the fifth book, which was really good.[/quote]

I thought about doing that as well but I’m glad I read it. It gave me a slightly different perspective on a few characters, especially Cersei.[/quote]

Actually, I’m re-reading the books now and finished up AFFC a week or so ago. I thought the book was boring the first time I read it as well. This time through though, I found I liked it a lot more. Especially Brienne’s chapters which I really hated the first time but found myself looking forward to this time. ADWD is in the mail on it’s way here. So we’ll see how I like this one. The first time through I thought it was as good as ASOS, but I think that may have been the years inbetween books more than quality of the book. lol.

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So I just finished reading the entire series… aaaaaand

[Crazy spoilers ahead… like really nutzo ruin the series for you SPOILERS ahead]

1

2

3

4

5

SPOILER TIME!!

So reading all the books back to back I’ve come to recognize a pattern in GRRM books:

He HATES the Starks!(subjectively speaking of course)

He is RIDICULOUSLY forgiving of the Lannisters.

Up until the last book it was almost mandatory that someone was getting raped just finished raping or was mulling over raping some towns folk. I mean seriously in every persons chapter rape was mentioned I understand that the country was at war and shit happens but damn!

The meals that these people eat are fucking gross (excluding liver and onions, yumm, Strong Belwas knows how to eat.) I’m not talking about the poor folks or the ones traveling on the road either. I mean the well off eat some nasty shit. Who the fuck would find lamprey pie a delicacy? A lamprey is one of the most gross looking sea creatures out there. I guess it’s a observation about how people in olden times ate but still… gross.

Like mentioned before Dany is a horrible queen her decisions made up until they reached Mereen were sound but as soon as she took up residence there she just became a dumb broad. I won’t take the “she’s just a kid” excuse either. If she listened to wise counsel before she took the city what the fuck made her stop now?

Needs more Sand Snakes & Areo Hotah.

What the fuck is up with Bran? he just dropped his storyline in the middle of ADWD, I understand that he is now one with the old gods but he could have expanded a bit more on his fate. It would be REALLY fucked up if he ends up like The dude that has tree roots growing out of him, seriously that kid has had a fucked up time of it since the very beginning of the book. Worse than Sansa cuz she has never half starved to death in the cold wilderness.

I’ve learned that any character that speaks their future plans out loud NEVER, EVER, EVER get to see that plan to completion. 85% of the substantial events that move the plot forward happen through recollection. Seriously think about it. Every characters chapter ends in a mini cliff hanger then when he picks up the characters chapter later on they only reflect briefly on what happened.

Never liked Catelyn Stark since the beginning and ESPECIALLY don’t like her since she turned into a half
zombie.

Stretcing out the length of the book to describe what people are wearing is not cool. Seriously if I remember correctly there was one of Sansa’s chapter’s where she described like 5 dudes outfits back to back a paragraph per outfit.

AFFC was seriously just written clearly to fuck with us. Outside of Jamie and Arya’s storyline the book was not very entertaining.

There are only one type of black folk in this series and they are BLAAAAAAACK, like super black. Or how he puts it “black as pitch”, “black as teak”, “black as onyx”. No real point here but for obvious reasons that just stuck out to me… I’m black as chestnut myself.

I wouldn’t mind spending an evening or 20 with a girl who is trained in “the ways of a thousand sighs.” Seriously I felt a pang of remorse when Theon’s Uncle (Victorion I think?) Burned the ship with those girls from the Pleasure houses of Lys on it.

Jon Snow… my favorite goddamn character in the entire series, yes he is a bit of a glum chum from time to time but he is the most realized and fully fleshed out character in the entire series, excluding Tryion. Why the FUCK would you kill him off or at least seemed to have killed him off. I mean seriously I was ready to quit the series after that shit. I’m happy it happened at the end of the book. Now we have to wait until who the fuck knows when till he writes his next book which probably won’t be the last cuz he still has SOOOOO many storylines to wrap up.

I might sound like I’m trashing the books but I’m not I am wrapped up in the series and really hope it gets a satisfactory conclusion. I’m just a little frustrated with what seems to be GRRM epic practical joke up until this point.

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I just watched the last 5 episode back to back. It was awesome, but I have to wonder how they know what to change and what not to. I mean two more books are coming out; what if they end up killing off a character they need, or don’t properly introduca a character in time for a storyline? For example Meera and Jojen are yet to be introduced.

And what about Xaro Xan Daxos? He gets trapped in a vault in the show (along with doreah, which sucks for the reputation of her character), but in the books he comes back later when Dany fucks up the slave cities.

The rest of the show was pretty much badass as expected, although I wished they showed more of the Cleganes; they are both the biggest badasses in the world.

EDIT

By the end of it all who do you think sits the iron throne? Or at least who do you think has the highest right to sit the throne?
If I had to rank it, I would say Aegon probably sits the throne.

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[quote]IFlashBack wrote:
I just watched the last 5 episode back to back. It was awesome, but I have to wonder how they know what to change and what not to. I mean two more books are coming out; what if they end up killing off a character they need, or don’t properly introduca a character in time for a storyline? For example Meera and Jojen are yet to be introduced.

And what about Xaro Xan Daxos? He gets trapped in a vault in the show (along with doreah, which sucks for the reputation of her character), but in the books he comes back later when Dany fucks up the slave cities.

The rest of the show was pretty much badass as expected, although I wished they showed more of the Cleganes; they are both the biggest badasses in the world.

EDIT

By the end of it all who do you think sits the iron throne? Or at least who do you think has the highest right to sit the throne?
If I had to rank it, I would say Aegon probably sits the throne. [/quote]

SPOILERS alert

I was pissed when Doreah was put in the vault…no screen time anymore for the hottest chick in the series.
I think Aegon has the best claim to the throne, but I also believe one of the Targaryan characters will die. It’s been way too long since important people died (like at the Red Wedding). I read that the next book will start with 2 major battles, so there’ll be some deaths.

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SPOILERS

Rob Stark - why the feck did they change his reason for marrying not-Frey lady? In the book, he knocks up a lordlings daughter (who he fancies anyway) and marries her due to his honorable sensibilities…ish (makes sense if you’re 16), gains the support of a minor house and is super apologetic to the Freys.

In the show, he gets a boner for some foreign tart (who nobody actually knows!) and marries her for LUST. she doesn’t bring any power or resources to his cause, she gave up her title and status when she left Pentos and became a nurse

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how long should it take before the Dragons become a force to be reckoned with?

srsly, since they’re still as small as a cat, it’ll take a generation for them to become actual weapons.

I get that the dragons ushered in some magic into the world, and that has made some difference, but it’s a story bout Dragons, right?

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[quote]Edgy wrote:
how long should it take before the Dragons become a force to be reckoned with?

srsly, since they’re still as small as a cat, it’ll take a generation for them to become actual weapons.

I get that the dragons ushered in some magic into the world, and that has made some difference, but it’s a story bout Dragons, right?

[/quote]

No

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It seems they were having money issues when filming this season, this is way they went out of their ways to change so much stuff. I guess with the enormous pressure of making the battle of blackwater, white walkers, direwolves etc. I guess the producers just said “well, fuck it, somethings aren’t going to happen cause we can’t pay for it.”. Reason why we just see the dragons for a few minutes on some episodes.

I hope Season 3 has a larger budget. Srsly, they’ll need it if they wanna make a good show.

Show, Book, everything spoiler.

I think a lot of people will be very heartbroken when Shae betrays Tyrion. The way they are playing it up in the TV series makes it looks like she’s genuinely in love with him instead of just acting it like in the books.

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[quote]DeltaOne wrote:
It seems they were having money issues when filming this season, this is way they went out of their ways to change so much stuff. I guess with the enormous pressure of making the battle of blackwater, white walkers, direwolves etc. I guess the producers just said “well, fuck it, somethings aren’t going to happen cause we can’t pay for it.”. Reason why we just see the dragons for a few minutes on some episodes.

I hope Season 3 has a larger budget. Srsly, they’ll need it if they wanna make a good show.

Show, Book, everything spoiler.

I think a lot of people will be very heartbroken when Shae betrays Tyrion. The way they are playing it up in the TV series makes it looks like she’s genuinely in love with him instead of just acting it like in the books.[/quote]

I wondered about that. Will they make it look like she was trying to get the dad to release him by having sex and he bust them. But that wont work because then Tyrion will have killed an inocent mmmmmmm Lets see how that works. She is doing a good job on the show, hard to believe she was a turkish porn star.