The bigger question is what the fuck is a 130 lber doing dieting for a contest (unless you are under 5 ft tall or a female), what the hell are you doing?
Also, why in the fuck are you giving advice?? I’m curious as to what makes you think you are qualified or could possibly “know your body” as you put it.
why is everyone making assumptions iam not dieting for a bodybuilding contest iam making weight for a rowing contest iam a light weight rower
[quote]futurepharm wrote:
But really, dyskee,what kind of competition are you dieting for that you’ll compete at 125.4 lbs? Did you have both legs cut off at the hip in a tragic accident? Your picture is male, but maybe you’re a female fitness competitor? What the hell do you know about gaining real muscle when you weighed at the most 165 lbs, and lost all of that?[/quote]
no i was a former fattie i weighed 200 lbs at 22% bf at my heaviest - i believed i was bulking- when i referred to 166 i was talking about the lean gaining.
[quote]josh86 wrote:
Because the guy tried to say its possible just because he went from 136 to 166 while losing BF. That doesn’t apply to someone that already has a decent foundation of muscle. We are all well aware of “newbie gains”…unfortunately those don’t continue past a certain point, which is exactly why they are called newbie gains.[/quote]
again ur making assumptions i had 2 years worth of training experience and diet experience to do it , it took me long to figure whats best for me .
and professor X iam not a midget iam 5’10
[quote]Scott M wrote:.
I’m really confused here. If you were 166 lbs with 11% bodyfat you had 147.75 lbs of lean body mass… where did it go?
[/quote]
when i started rowing i thought it was just like cardio won’t burn alot of cals, but soon after i realized that i must have taken sufficient cals , it was when i lost a lot of size.
[quote]greekdawg wrote:
The bigger question is what the fuck is a 130 lber doing dieting for a contest (unless you are under 5 ft tall or a female), what the hell are you doing?
Also, why in the fuck are you giving advice?? I’m curious as to what makes you think you are qualified or could possibly “know your body” as you put it.
[/quote]
i have to make weight for a rowing contest iam 5’10. and iam giving advice because i took my body from a fat ass 200lb at 22% bf to 140 with 13%bf then back to 166 with 11% bf.
[quote]dyskee wrote:
i have to make weight for a rowing contest iam 5’10. and iam giving advice because i took my body from a fat ass 200lb at 22% bf to 140 with 13%bf then back to 166 with 11% bf. [/quote]
Are you retarded? They are saying you have no input on the subject because you are small and little to no experience on bulking so it would be in your best interest to not post because you are going to get flamed for being a skinny moron.
Also you had 156lbs of lean mass and you dieted down to 140lbs with 121lbs of lean mass? Lost 35lbs of lean body mass? Pretty sure this means keep your opinions to yourself until you have done something worth merit.
The simple truth of the matter is that people’s calorie needs changes that much from day to day that it’s impractical (or virtually impossible) to calculate exactly how many calories is just enough for muscle growth. There’s a fine line between having just enough to grow and maintaining. You are much more likely to just stand still with your gains if you try to stay lean.
It’s not hard to maintain muscle while cutting fat…whereas it is difficult making extremely lean gains.
I used to try “lean bulking” and even though I thought I calculated my needs really well, I didn’t make decent gains. Before, I would just hover around 160lbs (up from 140lbs) and it took 2 years to get there, but it wasn’t until I started proper bulking that I went from 160lbs to 210lbs (in about only a year).
I like to just “yoyo” between 12-18% BF. Anything above 20% and it takes ages to diet down to decent levels (plus, who wants to walk around with a 40"+ waist?)
Simply eating 500 calories above maintenance level is not going to change your physique much. When you want to gain (especially those who are intermediate/advanced), you have to eat decent amounts in order to grow. You have to almost double maintenance levels to see anything significant (for a lean 180lbs guy, this would be about 4000cals/day).
Even if gains aren’t all that lean, who cares? You can simply diet down when it’s time (e.g. when you’ve gone up a few inches or more on your stomach). You’ll get far better gains from bulking/dieting than from trying to get lean gains.
The only catch with bulking is that you can’t do it for too long. It depends on how much fat you’re comfortable with carrying as to how long you bulk for (plus if you’ve grossly overestimated callorie needs). For myself, I can expect to gain about an inch a month round my stomach, so I only bulk for about 3 months - which takes me from about 12% (34inch waist) to 18% (37 inch waist).
I’ll only ever consider getting down to 8% again (like in my avator pic) when I’m done growing - that is, I’ve reached my growth potential.
[quote]FutureKing wrote:
Em i dont know if im allowed post here so sorry if i cant.
I write my 1st thread yesterday when i found this site this is the 1st i see where bulking means getting fat.
I started lifting when i was 10 when my mother allowed me and my brother just gave me stuff to eat and when i stopped moving up on weighing scales he added more… and i lifted lots of weight.
Now 2 years later im 102kgs or 225lbs to people not from europe. But im 6ft 5" so it looks like nothing on me. if i did what some looney tunes are doing where they are barely eating and stay the same all the time i would still be tiny.
I have been lifting for 2 years now and i hope when im 18 ill be HHUUGGGEEEE bigger than my big brother !!! But if i do what some people say here id be the same!
I know you have been training longer and know more than me i have long way to go but why cant people just eat good food… if your not going up eat more… if you see fat on you eat less (like my brother HAHA) and just lift heavy weights.
I think my brother saved me from all this stuff this debate is really weird. i dont see the point of it… i mean if you want to get bigger you need to eat more … i dont see the problem if you put on some fat start running or eat less !
and to the 1st guy how to prove it maybe for 6 months do 1 approach for the 2nd 6 months do the other approach see which one gets you more muscle instead of waiting for some big huge study from some big huge company to tell you THIS is the way to train.
[/quote]
See, your situation is a little different though, as you are still growing (natural growth that can at least partially be credited to going through puberty). Not that you aren’t correct about eating more if the scale stops going up, or focusing on lifting heavy weights and eating good food though.
Keep up the good work though, you should be a BIG dude by 18 if you keep doing what you’ve been doing (from your description I assume you’re 12 right?).
[quote]dyskee wrote:
greekdawg wrote:
The bigger question is what the fuck is a 130 lber doing dieting for a contest (unless you are under 5 ft tall or a female), what the hell are you doing?
Also, why in the fuck are you giving advice?? I’m curious as to what makes you think you are qualified or could possibly “know your body” as you put it.
i have to make weight for a rowing contest iam 5’10. and iam giving advice because i took my body from a fat ass 200lb at 22% bf to 140 with 13%bf then back to 166 with 11% bf. [/quote]
Man, I can’t even imagine what 125 lbs on a 5’10" frame would look like. You must look like a Holocaust victim, or Christian Bale in “The Machinist”. I started out at 130 at 5’9" and when I look at pictures of myself I can’t believe that my parents didn’t suspect me of having an eating disorder.
Ok, I’m done busting your balls.
But seriously, this is a thread about the best way to build muscle (bulk). What made you think that you had enough experience in this area to offer people advice? You haven’t really made any significant or impressive progress from a muscle building perspective.
You went from 200 lbs at 22% bf (which means you had 156 lbs of lean body mass) to 140 at 13% (~122 lbs of lbm) to 166 at 11% (~148 lbs of lbm). So, basically you haven’t built any muscle beyond your starting point, you’ve basically gone two steps backwards and one step forwards. Your growth from 140 to 166 could also partly be attributed to “muscle memory”.
Now, to top things off you are trying to get down to 125.4 lbs! Why? Why not compete at a higher weight class in rowing? And hey, if you’ve got your reasons then fine. But don’t come into a thread that’s about gaining muscle (bulking) and talking like you know about the subject when clearly you have very little experience with it, and in fact it isn’t even really something that is all that important to you.
[quote]FutureKing wrote:
I started lifting when i was 10
Now 2 years later
[/quote]
Wait…your 12?
Your mother should get you off this website, no offense.
I’ve read too many of these threads lately so I didn’t read this one, but has anyone noticed that when a topic gets hotly debated in the t-cell it shows up in the BB forum?
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
FutureKing wrote:
I started lifting when i was 10
Now 2 years later
Wait…your 12?
Your mother should get you off this website, no offense.[/quote]
And he’s 6’5"! Biggest 12 year old ever!
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Man, I can’t even imagine what 125 lbs on a 5’10" frame would look like. You must look like a Holocaust victim, or Christian Bale in “The Machinist”. I started out at 130 at 5’9" and when I look at pictures of myself I can’t believe that my parents didn’t suspect me of having an eating disorder.
Ok, I’m done busting your balls. But seriously, this is a thread about the best way to build muscle (bulk). What made you think that you had enough experience in this area to offer people advice? You haven’t really made any significant or impressive progress from a muscle building perspective.
You went from 200 lbs at 22% bf (which means you had 156 lbs of lean body mass) to 140 at 13% (~122 lbs of lbm) to 166 at 11% (~148 lbs of lbm). So, basically you haven’t built any muscle beyond your starting point, you’ve basically gone two steps backwards and one step forwards. Your growth from 140 to 166 could also partly be attributed to “muscle memory”.
Now, to top things off you are trying to get down to 125.4 lbs! Why? Why not compete at a higher weight class in rowing? And hey, if you’ve got your reasons then fine. But don’t come into a thread that’s about gaining muscle (bulking) and talking like you know about the subject when clearly you have very little experience with it, and in fact it isn’t even really something that is all that important to you.[/quote]
ok sento i really appreciate that ur not being hostile. i didn’t claim to be an expert in bulking the op was asking a general question, and i thought i’d reply i told him what worked FOR ME , what works for me might not work for others i was just offering and example i didn’t say it’s the only way to do it. and i checked the thread later for advice that i can use but the shitheads here took it personal and deviated from the original subject and focused on me !!!
i will compete in the heavy weight class but right now i have this last in season contest. believe me after being 200lbs for 15 years 124 lbs isn’t appealing. and i don’t look like christian bale in the machinist people always think iam 10 lbs heavier than iam due to my small joints and hollow bones. i’ll put pics on my profile
…hollow bones? What the fuck man.
Anyway regarding the actual debate, people always want examples and you could look at a guy like JoeSchmo and learn a thing or two.
Link: forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=659148
Now here is a guy that is extremely active in his life (football and track&field on top of his weight training), doesn’t take steroids, has great genetics, and has the resources to eat enough food to keep him going.
He eats very healthy, and states he simply doesn’t eat the types of foods that would cause him to put on much fat anyway. He also says that his being able to stay lean year round is largely due to having a fast metabolism. The only thing he “counts” is protein and he just makes sure to get a large amount of it every day.
His philosophy is one of patience, and he has said that muscle gains come slowly whether you gain them with fat or not. And that consistency is the only thing that works 100% of the time.
And the kid is in incredible shape, and he’s incredibly strong. He trains like a bodybuilding (20 sets per bodypart in later years), and his bench, squat,and deadlift are all in the 400-500lb range.
However, Joeschmo only gains – on average – 10lbs per year.
Now one could argue that this is 10lbs of sheer muscle mass and from the looks of it thats pretty accurate.
But someone with such great genetics, if he had chosen to eat even more food and gain at a much faster rate, imagine where his body would be at now, and how easy it would be for him to achieve his natural level of leanness later on?
This is all taking into account that he also started seriously training at 13, and obviously had a lot of structural growing left to do, he had other activities he was committed to, and also that he simply doesn’t want to be 280lbs and utterly freakish. haha
What I’m getting at is that the guy looks remarkable, and especially for his age, but could he be better or gotten there faster simply by choosing to gain more weight year-round?
Here is one example of lean bulking, and then how many examples do we have of losing-the-abs-bulking where people got from that same point A to point B in less time?
And for all of the “lean bulkers” here, do you think YOU have genetics as good as JoeSchmo anyway? haha. Good luck with that.
Does anyone have anymore examples besides dave gullege?
great post thnx man
[quote]dyskee wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Man, I can’t even imagine what 125 lbs on a 5’10" frame would look like. You must look like a Holocaust victim, or Christian Bale in “The Machinist”. I started out at 130 at 5’9" and when I look at pictures of myself I can’t believe that my parents didn’t suspect me of having an eating disorder.
Ok, I’m done busting your balls. But seriously, this is a thread about the best way to build muscle (bulk). What made you think that you had enough experience in this area to offer people advice? You haven’t really made any significant or impressive progress from a muscle building perspective.
You went from 200 lbs at 22% bf (which means you had 156 lbs of lean body mass) to 140 at 13% (~122 lbs of lbm) to 166 at 11% (~148 lbs of lbm). So, basically you haven’t built any muscle beyond your starting point, you’ve basically gone two steps backwards and one step forwards. Your growth from 140 to 166 could also partly be attributed to “muscle memory”.
Now, to top things off you are trying to get down to 125.4 lbs! Why? Why not compete at a higher weight class in rowing? And hey, if you’ve got your reasons then fine. But don’t come into a thread that’s about gaining muscle (bulking) and talking like you know about the subject when clearly you have very little experience with it, and in fact it isn’t even really something that is all that important to you.
ok sento i really appreciate that ur not being hostile. i didn’t claim to be an expert in bulking the op was asking a general question, and i thought i’d reply i told him what worked FOR ME , what works for me might not work for others i was just offering and example i didn’t say it’s the only way to do it. and i checked the thread later for advice that i can use but the shitheads here took it personal and deviated from the original subject and focused on me !!!
i will compete in the heavy weight class but right now i have this last in season contest. believe me after being 200lbs for 15 years 124 lbs isn’t appealing. and i don’t look like christian bale in the machinist people always think iam 10 lbs heavier than iam due to my small joints and hollow bones. i’ll put pics on my profile [/quote]
Obviously this is easier said than done but don’t take what people have said to heart. It’s only natural to want to contribute in a discussion no matter what level you are at so I understand where you are coming from. However, it’s the same old story: “only listen to the biggest guy” (which has quit a lot of merit). You have a long way to go (and I feel I have at least another 25lbs of solid muscle left to gain) so this is why you’ve had hostile reactions…although there certainly was no need for insults and mocking that you got. Keep up the learning and listen to these guys - they may be blunt, but one can learn a lot! lol
[quote]mr popular wrote:
Does anyone have anymore examples besides dave gullege?[/quote]
Trey Brewer is another recent example. He probably got a lot of shit from his peers about being a fat boy, going too fast etc but how many 22(I think that’s his age now) year old kids carry that much muscle mass in the WORLD? Had he taken the don’t lose sight of your abs approach does anyone here honestly think he’d be signed to BSN, placing top 5 at national level shows and be world known right now as an up and comer in the bodybuilding world? Not a chance in hell.
So to me there is the fast track way that is the quickest, not necessarily prettiest or healthiest, and there is the snails pace way where maybe at 32 Trey could have attained the muscle he did at 19-21(if he ever did). Is a 32 year old Trey Brewer going to be happy that he could have accomplished where he is now at 22 if he just eased off the brake pedeal(staying lean) and went full force on the gas peddle(extreme muscle gain)? That’s a personal call and it’s up to what people are willing to do and what their goals are.
If someone gave you the proposition that you had to train all out hardcore 200 times this year, and eat 6-8 times a day every day to gain 6 lbs of muscle mass. OR the same workouts, the same amount of meals(more food obviously) to gain 24 lbs of muscle mass(+some extra fat) which would you choose?
The guys that want to be 180-200 and lean can get away with option 1, but the guys that want to be a hardcore 250-290 lbs will probably never get there(old age, injuries etc) if they take that approach. So which kind of guy are you?
thnx man i appreciate the advice
[quote]futurepharm wrote:
It just seems to me that every time someone brings this subject up again, you have dumber people making the case for and against each side because the more experienced people avoid the topic because its been discussed ad nauseum on these very forums.
[/quote]
Exactly.
However, I must admit it’s kind of fun to watch the retarded, dim-witted slug-fest when 125 lb guys argue about bulking.
Though, there have been quite a few intelligent responses in this thread.