Gabby Reece on Being Submissive

Off Topic
101

Seeing as it is T-Nation, why not steer it towards women in athletics, fitness models, BB’ers and those who delve into the world of weightlifting/strongman(woman)?

I am attending a University with a lot of sporting prowess and naturally a lot of these places attract women who are into athletic backgrounds and/or enjoy competitive sports.

The style and femininity they give off will either turn you off or on but I have found some quite interesting facts about these women.

They enjoy competing men, training hard and as I found out, enjoy challenging men on the field of play when you slag them off and dismiss their physical prowess. Playing lacrosse, field hockey, Cheerleading and Judo allowed me to see a varied bunch of women but the ones who enjoyed pushing a mans physical dominance over them were the ones in lacrosse & hockey.

Its like they were daring you to flatten them, something they would avoid but they absolutely enjoyed in a more private setting. They’re like your little nephew, they want to play and be made to submit but will give you a damn good struggle leading up to it.

102

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
Seeing as it is T-Nation, why not steer it towards women in athletics, fitness models, BB’ers and those who delve into the world of weightlifting/strongman(woman)?

I am attending a University with a lot of sporting prowess and naturally a lot of these places attract women who are into athletic backgrounds and/or enjoy competitive sports.

The style and femininity they give off will either turn you off or on but I have found some quite interesting facts about these women.

They enjoy competing men, training hard and as I found out, enjoy challenging men on the field of play when you slag them off and dismiss their physical prowess. Playing lacrosse, field hockey, Cheerleading and Judo allowed me to see a varied bunch of women but the ones who enjoyed pushing a mans physical dominance over them were the ones in lacrosse & hockey.

Its like they were daring you to flatten them, something they would avoid but they absolutely enjoyed in a more private setting. They’re like your little nephew, they want to play and be made to submit but will give you a damn good struggle leading up to it.

[/quote]

This is irrelevant to their dynamic in the relationship. My wife played d-III basketball and is on of the most competitive people that I know except maybe myself. She loves to compete and try’s to beat me at everything and does sometimes. She also will be livid if I try to take it easy on her. The submissive dynamic being discussed has only to do with the dynamic of the relationship between the two partners. I would feel pretty confident in assuming that an athlete the caliber of Gabby Reece competes with her husband the same fire as the women you are describing.

103

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
Especially if we’re going to start making claims of biological determinism, then I’m going to chime in and say hold on, you don’t know that and don’t define woman or femininity or what have you for me.
[/quote]
Welcome to the stag party! It’s Misogyny Monday.

Why do you say it couldn’t be biological? Doesn’t it make sense that men would be largely more biologically predisposed to dominance? I almost don’t see how you could argue the opposite.

You don’t have to perceive this negatively though. That is a choice. There are simply differences. Any traits deemed superior or inferior are a matter of opinion. What I don’t feel like is opinion are the biological tendencies toward the traits themselves.

There. I think that was a nice way to say that instead of saying “You will never be as dominant or aggresive as I am.” ;P[/quote]

I didn’t say it couldn’t be biological but that no one can say definitively that it is. :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t see that it has to be biological either. It just doesn’t match my experience from either introspection or from what I’ve seen around me in family circles, and a variety of different social circles. It only really aligns with my viewing experience in mass media.

I don’t know why it would need to be biological other than for some people are invested in it’s ‘rightness’ to be a certain way. If it’s not biological, it does not in any way dismiss how people are or diminish it. If it’s a social construct you can be any way that society, experience and what not tells you to be. However if you are saying it is biological you are making a very discrete claim that people of a certain sex WILL have a fixed set of behaviors.

If it is biological, then what is the deal with women like me? I’m pretty dominant and I see myself as more dominant than most men I encounter.[/quote]

Do people act a certain way because of their biology? Yes or no?

Do you know about Occam’s Razor? It’s not something men use to shave their square, manly, stubbly jaws. [/quote]

deb, I find it amusing that you took time out to respond to a post of mine in which you are not even addressed to attempt to paint me as “passive-aggressive,” while you completely ignored the question I directed at you specifically much earlier.

This is certainly not the only direct question you’ve ignored in this thread so far.

My question was not answered by your response to csulli, btw, either. I’m still waiting on your answer.

104

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:

I do still question why a discussion about femininity would be suitable here. You can obviously have it wherever you want but the results are very predictable–basically a back and forth between Orion and whoever objects to him and then some of the usual comments about women need to be dominated but no, assertive women are hot. Not Hot. No, Hot…

Now I can see putting here for entertainments sake but to attempt to get any real understanding of the female experience, I don’t see where you’re going to get that here. Hence my question about why here. For the record I see nothing wrong with a topic for entertainments sake but I see you are taking it quite seriously so I don’t think that’s your intent.

[/quote]

Well said.

I saw this thread, read the article and then told myself, here we go again, this is going to go like the rest of the women bashing threads/ femininity threads and, consequently, the usual suspects, the hardcore misogynists will come out of the woodwork, salivating with their eyes greedy, tongue slithering and licking the drool dripping down the corner of their mouth, and, preaching to whoever is willing to hear, their dislike for the majority of ‘‘unruly’’ American women or any other ‘‘unfeminine’’ woman for that matter, and, most importantly, how women are supposed to act… yada yada.

Bottom line is, this subject had been discussed to death around these parts. It’s like those threads about pants/Tshirt that don’t fit 'cos the legs/arms are fucking humongous.

Then again, it’s PowerPuff’s thread so whatever. She decided to start it here for whatever reason and we can’t chastise her for that. This discussion would have been more relevant had the old gang of girls been still here. It would have been more balanced. But the big swipe has fucked it all up.

I wonder, and I would be interested in seeing what other women --sport oriented/lifting women especially – think of this article, maybe in a place like BB where there is a female off topic section.
[/quote]

What’s up, DN? I was wondering what was taking you so long. (^_^)v

105

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
Seeing as it is T-Nation, why not steer it towards women in athletics, fitness models, BB’ers and those who delve into the world of weightlifting/strongman(woman)?

I am attending a University with a lot of sporting prowess and naturally a lot of these places attract women who are into athletic backgrounds and/or enjoy competitive sports.

The style and femininity they give off will either turn you off or on but I have found some quite interesting facts about these women.

They enjoy competing men, training hard and as I found out, enjoy challenging men on the field of play when you slag them off and dismiss their physical prowess. Playing lacrosse, field hockey, Cheerleading and Judo allowed me to see a varied bunch of women but the ones who enjoyed pushing a mans physical dominance over them were the ones in lacrosse & hockey.

Its like they were daring you to flatten them, something they would avoid but they absolutely enjoyed in a more private setting. They’re like your little nephew, they want to play and be made to submit but will give you a damn good struggle leading up to it.

[/quote]

This is irrelevant to their dynamic in the relationship. My wife played d-III basketball and is on of the most competitive people that I know except maybe myself. She loves to compete and try’s to beat me at everything and does sometimes. She also will be livid if I try to take it easy on her. The submissive dynamic being discussed has only to do with the dynamic of the relationship between the two partners. I would feel pretty confident in assuming that an athlete the caliber of Gabby Reece competes with her husband the same fire as the women you are describing.[/quote]

You just proved my point.

They’re competitive but do not want a man who will just give it to them easily. Thats a sure sign of her enjoying the competitive nature of a man and not being submissive.

106

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
This discussion would have been more relevant had the old gang of girls been still here. It would have been more balanced. But the big swipe has fucked it all up. [/quote]
I had this same thought.

These forums do not contain a “balanced” population. My guess is that they are 95% male and 85%+ Christian Republicans. That does not even remotely represent our population.

There are businesses that are run as partnerships. In my experience, most marriages are run the same way. The men make most or all of the decisions in certain areas. The women make most or all of the decisions in certain areas. And then there are those decisions that require a fair amount of “negotiation.” Sometimes the man wins. Sometimes the woman does.

Personally, I can’t imagine ceding all decisionmaking control to my husband. I’m just not cut from that cloth. And yet many of you guys are telling me that my relationship can’t possibly work because I’m not submissive? How many of you have been married for 25 years!!

107

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:
Seeing as it is T-Nation, why not steer it towards women in athletics, fitness models, BB’ers and those who delve into the world of weightlifting/strongman(woman)?

I am attending a University with a lot of sporting prowess and naturally a lot of these places attract women who are into athletic backgrounds and/or enjoy competitive sports.

The style and femininity they give off will either turn you off or on but I have found some quite interesting facts about these women.

They enjoy competing men, training hard and as I found out, enjoy challenging men on the field of play when you slag them off and dismiss their physical prowess. Playing lacrosse, field hockey, Cheerleading and Judo allowed me to see a varied bunch of women but the ones who enjoyed pushing a mans physical dominance over them were the ones in lacrosse & hockey.

Its like they were daring you to flatten them, something they would avoid but they absolutely enjoyed in a more private setting. They’re like your little nephew, they want to play and be made to submit but will give you a damn good struggle leading up to it.

[/quote]

This is irrelevant to their dynamic in the relationship. My wife played d-III basketball and is on of the most competitive people that I know except maybe myself. She loves to compete and try’s to beat me at everything and does sometimes. She also will be livid if I try to take it easy on her. The submissive dynamic being discussed has only to do with the dynamic of the relationship between the two partners. I would feel pretty confident in assuming that an athlete the caliber of Gabby Reece competes with her husband the same fire as the women you are describing.[/quote]

You just proved my point.

They’re competitive but do not want a man who will just give it to them easily. Thats a sure sign of her enjoying the competitive nature of a man and not being submissive.
[/quote]

Not submissive in that regard. But she is submissive in the context of our relationship. That’s not to say she is going to take anything I give her as the gospel just because it came out of my mouth. She challenges, questions, and has an opinion however she also leaves it to me to make the final decision. I had to earn her respect for her to have the trust in me to do that but she “submits” to what I think is the right thing to do and doesn’t try to assert any kind of dominance when it comes to making those decisions.

And as I said before, the decision that I make is not always the one that I started off arguing for originally (if it was a disagreement). Its really about even, I know what she thinks, I consider it, and most of the time, unless its something I just think is detrimental in some way, I will let her have her way.

108

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
This discussion would have been more relevant had the old gang of girls been still here. It would have been more balanced. But the big swipe has fucked it all up. [/quote]
I had this same thought.

These forums do not contain a “balanced” population. My guess is that they are 95% male and 85%+ Christian Republicans. That does not even remotely represent our population.

There are businesses that are run as partnerships. In my experience, most marriages are run the same way. The men make most or all of the decisions in certain areas. The women make most or all of the decisions in certain areas. And then there are those decisions that require a fair amount of “negotiation.” Sometimes the man wins. Sometimes the woman does. Personally, I can’t imagine ceding all decisionmaking control to my husband. I’m just not cut from that cloth. And yet many of you guys are telling me that my relationship can’t possibly work because I’m not submissive? How many of you have been married for 25 years!![/quote]

What, y’all aren’t “man” enough to argue the points on their own merits, lol? Why do you need to “even the numbers?” Whether uttered by one or one million, truth is truth.

109

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
This discussion would have been more relevant had the old gang of girls been still here. It would have been more balanced. But the big swipe has fucked it all up. [/quote]
I had this same thought.

These forums do not contain a “balanced” population. My guess is that they are 95% male and 85%+ Christian Republicans. That does not even remotely represent our population.

There are businesses that are run as partnerships. In my experience, most marriages are run the same way. The men make most or all of the decisions in certain areas. The women make most or all of the decisions in certain areas. And then there are those decisions that require a fair amount of “negotiation.” Sometimes the man wins. Sometimes the woman does. Personally, I can’t imagine ceding all decisionmaking control to my husband. I’m just not cut from that cloth. And yet many of you guys are telling me that my relationship can’t possibly work because I’m not submissive? How many of you have been married for 25 years!![/quote]

Does the nature of the decisions matter?

For instance, if he’s making financial and other more “life” decisions, but you’re making decisions on the interior design, are they considered equal?

I ask because I have my wife make a ton of decisions for me, for things that don’t necessarily matter all that much to me. It simplifies my life. But for big decisions (should we move out, what neighborhood should we live in, etc.) I make the final decision, and she knows that.

And for the 100th time in this thread, that doesn’t mean I disregard her opinion. Her opinion, many times, is the main driver behind my decision. But sometimes I strongly disagree with something and that’s that.

110

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
Personally, I can’t imagine ceding all decisionmaking control to my husband. I’m just not cut from that cloth. And yet many of you guys are telling me that my relationship can’t possibly work because I’m not submissive? How many of you have been married for 25 years!![/quote]

Get out your umbrellas, fellas, it’s raining logical fallacies.

111

[quote]kpsnap wrote:
How many of you have been married for 25 years!![/quote]

24 years here. Definitely more of a partnership model along the lines you described–sometimes she wins, sometimes she lets me win. ;^)

112

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

And for the 100th time in this thread, that doesn’t mean I disregard her opinion. Her opinion, many times, is the main driver behind my decision. But sometimes I strongly disagree with something and that’s that.
[/quote]

Stop, Lanky, you’re ruining their narrative.

113

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
But for big decisions (should we move out, what neighborhood should we live in, etc.) I make the final decision, and she knows that.

And for the 100th time in this thread, that doesn’t mean I disregard her opinion. Her opinion, many times, is the main driver behind my decision. But sometimes I strongly disagree with something and that’s that.
[/quote]

This is 100% true in all relationships. No relationship is ultimately equal. Whichever one of you gets the final say on the big life decisions (and by final say I mean they ultimately make the call even if that call gives the submissive partner their way) is the dominant one. There will always be a dominant one in every relationship.

114

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
This discussion would have been more relevant had the old gang of girls been still here. It would have been more balanced. But the big swipe has fucked it all up. [/quote]
I had this same thought.

These forums do not contain a “balanced” population. My guess is that they are 95% male and 85%+ Christian Republicans. That does not even remotely represent our population.

There are businesses that are run as partnerships. In my experience, most marriages are run the same way. The men make most or all of the decisions in certain areas. The women make most or all of the decisions in certain areas. And then there are those decisions that require a fair amount of “negotiation.” Sometimes the man wins. Sometimes the woman does. Personally, I can’t imagine ceding all decisionmaking control to my husband. I’m just not cut from that cloth. And yet many of you guys are telling me that my relationship can’t possibly work because I’m not submissive? How many of you have been married for 25 years!![/quote]

Does the nature of the decisions matter?

For instance, if he’s making financial and other more “life” decisions, but you’re making decisions on the interior design, are they considered equal?

I ask because I have my wife make a ton of decisions for me, for things that don’t necessarily matter all that much to me. It simplifies my life. But for big decisions (should we move out, what neighborhood should we live in, etc.) I make the final decision, and she knows that.

And for the 100th time in this thread, that doesn’t mean I disregard her opinion. Her opinion, many times, is the main driver behind my decision. But sometimes I strongly disagree with something and that’s that.
[/quote]

Does your wife work?

If so, how does her income compare to yours?

I would bet Debra and ksnap have lucrative careers and their contributions to household income aren’t far apart from their SO’s

115

[quote]debraD wrote:

How about this crazy idea: I will define me and you can define you.

[/quote]

But Deb, we want you to be happy.

116

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Does the nature of the decisions matter?

For instance, if he’s making financial and other more “life” decisions, but you’re making decisions on the interior design, are they considered equal?
[/quote]
Interesting question. I handle the finances in my household.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
I would bet Debra and ksnap have lucrative careers and their contributions to household income aren’t far apart from their SO’s

[/quote]
Not true in my case at this point in my life. My children are my priority. My career is an afterthought.

117

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
But for big decisions (should we move out, what neighborhood should we live in, etc.) I make the final decision, and she knows that.

And for the 100th time in this thread, that doesn’t mean I disregard her opinion. Her opinion, many times, is the main driver behind my decision. But sometimes I strongly disagree with something and that’s that.
[/quote]

This is 100% true in all relationships. No relationship is ultimately equal. Whichever one of you gets the final say on the big life decisions (and by final say I mean they ultimately make the call even if that call gives the submissive partner their way) is the dominant one. There will always be a dominant one in every relationship. [/quote]

Logically, this is the only possible reality.

118

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]kpsnap wrote:

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
This discussion would have been more relevant had the old gang of girls been still here. It would have been more balanced. But the big swipe has fucked it all up. [/quote]
I had this same thought.

These forums do not contain a “balanced” population. My guess is that they are 95% male and 85%+ Christian Republicans. That does not even remotely represent our population.

There are businesses that are run as partnerships. In my experience, most marriages are run the same way. The men make most or all of the decisions in certain areas. The women make most or all of the decisions in certain areas. And then there are those decisions that require a fair amount of “negotiation.” Sometimes the man wins. Sometimes the woman does. Personally, I can’t imagine ceding all decisionmaking control to my husband. I’m just not cut from that cloth. And yet many of you guys are telling me that my relationship can’t possibly work because I’m not submissive? How many of you have been married for 25 years!![/quote]

Does the nature of the decisions matter?

For instance, if he’s making financial and other more “life” decisions, but you’re making decisions on the interior design, are they considered equal?

I ask because I have my wife make a ton of decisions for me, for things that don’t necessarily matter all that much to me. It simplifies my life. But for big decisions (should we move out, what neighborhood should we live in, etc.) I make the final decision, and she knows that.

And for the 100th time in this thread, that doesn’t mean I disregard her opinion. Her opinion, many times, is the main driver behind my decision. But sometimes I strongly disagree with something and that’s that.
[/quote]

Does your wife work?

If so, how does her income compare to yours?

I would bet Debra and ksnap have lucrative careers and their contributions to household income aren’t far apart from their SO’s

[/quote]

I am the bread winner in my family, but I’m not sure that encompasses what this is all about, does it? It goes beyond finances. Men are supposed to provide for their family. They have the responsibility to provide for their family and part of that responsibility is making the final call on life decisions.

Personally, I don’t think that dynamic would be drastically different if my wife earned more money than me. My in laws have that dynamic and she is the bread winner in that family.

119

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

I am the bread winner in my family, but I’m not sure that encompasses what this is all about, does it? It goes beyond finances. Men are supposed to provide for their family. They have the responsibility to provide for their family and part of that responsibility is making the final call on life decisions. [/quote]

What are all these life decisions that can only be decided through use of a gender trump card?

120

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]bpick86 wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
But for big decisions (should we move out, what neighborhood should we live in, etc.) I make the final decision, and she knows that.

And for the 100th time in this thread, that doesn’t mean I disregard her opinion. Her opinion, many times, is the main driver behind my decision. But sometimes I strongly disagree with something and that’s that.
[/quote]

This is 100% true in all relationships. No relationship is ultimately equal. Whichever one of you gets the final say on the big life decisions (and by final say I mean they ultimately make the call even if that call gives the submissive partner their way) is the dominant one. There will always be a dominant one in every relationship. [/quote]

Logically, this is the only possible reality. [/quote]

Not the case in my household. As has been said by a small number on things that are important to me I have final say, and vice versa for her. But since you all say this is impossible I guess we are doomed to failure.