Functional / Specificity

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]RagingBull wrote:
Professor X wrote:
What the hell? What exercises do you know of that provide no real world strength out of the gym?

Please list these exercises that are of absolutely no use in life at all in any way, shape or form.

Here’s a list of those that come closest, though you may recognise them as being touted as being “the most functional of all”

a)Bent over row standing on Swiss-Ball
b)Barbell Bench Press lying on Swiss-ball
c)Standing one legged on a bosu while holding a “bodyblade”

All exercises I’ve seen people do at the gym, all of them as close to a complete waste of time as possible.
[/quote]

I see this one at the gym all the time: sitting on your ass while talking on your cell phone.

22

[quote]RagingBull wrote:

Here’s a list of those that come closest, though you may recognise them as being touted as being “the most functional of all”

a)Bent over row standing on Swiss-Ball
b)Barbell Bench Press lying on Swiss-ball
c)Standing one legged on a bosu while holding a “bodyblade”

All exercises I’ve seen people do at the gym, all of them as close to a complete waste of time as possible.
[/quote]

Ever heard of balance training, dickhead? You may take it for granted, but some of us enjoy that fine motor unit control that comes with swiss ball and bosu training. It has a great carry-over into all kinds of sports, so open up your mind, you neanderthal.

23

[quote]Iron Beast wrote:

They like to make out that somehow the dura discs, swiss balls, chi balls, thera bands and the like will transfer into stuff we were supposed to do. Ie stuff primal man was forced to do in order to survive. If you need any more info go and have a look at Paul Chek’s site.

[/quote]

Chek’s studies on primal movement patterns are a completely different topic than his work with swiss balls etc. for sports performance.

If you don’t agree that we were made to squat, push, pull, twist, etc. why don’t you start your own topic and see what kind of response you get?

24

[quote]Professor X wrote:

The entire idea that someone needs to specifically train for every possible movement they may ever make is what is ridiculous.
[/quote]

I don’t think anyone was saying this, but while we’re on the topic, most movements must be learnt, I don’t think that there is a hell of a lot out there that is pure reflex. It is all learnt at one point in time. Would you have stuck your foot out for those eggs when you were a toddler?

Every movement has a carryover to a lot of other movements, but I can guarantee you that the first time you tried to stand up you fell flat on your ass.

25

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jedidiah wrote:

Deadlifts. Seriously, when will you ever use that motion in real life?

I have to say I am surprised that anyone on the planet thinks like this. Your body does not need specific exercises to do specific tasks. It can be developed through exercises that are NONSPECIFIC and it will have no problem at all getting your body parts to work together to perform the movement.

If I drop a spoon on the floor, do I really need to do specific “spoon lifting” exercises before-hand to accomplish the task of picking it up?

The entire idea that someone needs to specifically train for every possible movement they may ever make is what is ridiculous.

You are carrying groceries to the car when one bag drops. Both hands are full so you slow the fall of the bag with your foot to lessen the impact. Did that take “stick your foot out while hands are holding objects to decrease force of gravity on falling eggs” exercises to perform?

Is it possible that simply having muscles developed enough individually could pull off that amazing feat without specific training for it?

Deadlift:
I drop a book. I bend over and pick it up.

Case solved.

Outside of sport specific training, this entire topic is dumb as shit.[/quote]

I always thought functional strength training was pretty much sports exclusive. If not, I guess that is a reason why there’s such a lack of mention on this site and by extension a lack of knowledge on my behalf.

-Cloth

26

[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:

If you don’t agree that we were made to squat, push, pull, twist, etc. why don’t you start your own topic and see what kind of response you get?[/quote]

Okay. I would agree that we were made to do those things.

But the second people start talking about cavemen, I start talking about evolution.

I hear shit like “Cavemen didn’t have protein shakes” all the time from dipshit PT’s.

How long did a caveman live? And did primal man have BOSU’s and Dura Discs?

27

[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
Professor X wrote:

The entire idea that someone needs to specifically train for every possible movement they may ever make is what is ridiculous.

I don’t think anyone was saying this, but while we’re on the topic, most movements must be learnt, I don’t think that there is a hell of a lot out there that is pure reflex. It is all learnt at one point in time. Would you have stuck your foot out for those eggs when you were a toddler?

Every movement has a carryover to a lot of other movements, but I can guarantee you that the first time you tried to stand up you fell flat on your ass.[/quote]

Gee, and that took me all of the first year of life to get under control. After that, standing has been pretty damn easy. Your mind worked like hell at that early age to set up connections so that when you got older, you no longer had to learn how to scratch your ass when it itched. You felt an itch and went for it. No classes, no tutorials…no Bosu balls.

28

[quote]superdad4 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
I’ve recently confused myself regarding these terms. I see functional exercises as an exercise that produces real world strength out of the gym.

What the hell? What exercises do you know of that provide no real world strength out of the gym?

Please list these exercises that are of absolutely no use in life at all in any way, shape or form.

This shit has got to stop eventually.

Yes, I think of “functional exercise” as more of an advertising term than anything else.
[/quote]

I as well think this shit needs to stop.
I have quite a few books that list exercise after exercise, and some are listed as functional. Its funny cuz in none of them squats are listed as functional.

But since I started doing leg work with squats and lunges walking up stairs, running, jumping, and anything to do with my legs is twice as easy. How the fuck is it not functional?
I call bs on these terms.

29

[quote]Iron Beast wrote:
But the second people start talking about cavemen, I start talking about evolution.

I hear shit like “Cavemen didn’t have protein shakes” all the time from dipshit PT’s.

How long did a caveman live? And did primal man have BOSU’s and Dura Discs?

[/quote]

I think we could go pretty far with this, but there’s really no point. Anyone that puts forward the “no protein shake” argument is pretty short sighted - I guess they only ate what they could get their hands on and didn’t really have the time or technology or perhaps even the genetic potential to develop the type of body you and I desire.

With the duradiscs and bosu’s - again that’s another topic entirely. Somehow I don’t think cavemen sought optimal performance, most of the time they were struggling to survive.

30

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Gee, and that took me all of the first year of life to get under control. After that, standing has been pretty damn easy. Your mind worked like hell at that early age to set up connections so that when you got older, you no longer had to learn how to scratch your ass when it itched. You felt an itch and went for it. No classes, no tutorials…no Bosu balls.[/quote]

And if you want to keep the coordination and skill of a one year old, be my guest. Bosu balls, duradiscs and swiss balls are devices that keep your mind “working like hell” so you can keep improving.

You know, X, if you didn’t act like such a know it all prick in your posts, most people wouldn’t mind taking into account your lack of knowlege about sports performance.

31

Don’t call BS on the term, call BS on your books.

32

[quote]Iron Beast wrote:
CHEKonIT wrote:

If you don’t agree that we were made to squat, push, pull, twist, etc. why don’t you start your own topic and see what kind of response you get?

Okay. I would agree that we were made to do those things.

But the second people start talking about cavemen, I start talking about evolution.

I hear shit like “Cavemen didn’t have protein shakes” all the time from dipshit PT’s.

How long did a caveman live? And did primal man have BOSU’s and Dura Discs?

[/quote]

Somehow, I doubt that PTs are “piss” or "Dipshit"s. And i also highly doubt that you are more intellectual than them, or have more knowledge of the human body.

Just my 2 cents

33

[quote]dreads989 wrote:
Somehow, I doubt that PTs are “piss” or "Dipshit"s. And i also highly doubt that you are more intellectual than them, or have more knowledge of the human body.

Just my 2 cents[/quote]

Keep your 2 cents.

You’ve never seen a ‘weak as piss’ PT? You must have a great home gym because every commercial gym I step into is infested with them.

Have you looked into how easy it is to become a PT these days? The knowledge of the human body barely scratches the surface.

I gots me a degree in Sports Science mate and by no means am I claiming to be any form of oracle, but I’ll take that over a PT’s course. The majority of what a PT learns in their course in regards to anatomy is covered in the first 2 lectures in a Sport Science Degree.

Are you a PT? Did you get to work with cadavers in your course? A sports science degree covers it pretty well in my mind.

Sorry if my few cuss words made you think I was not up to the intellectual standard of a PT who got their qualification in less than three months.

I’ve also worked with some great strength coaches who can lift serious weight in bench, squat, dead, clean, jerk, snatch and so on. None of them got that way by BOSU’s, Dura Discs, and the like.

I’ll give you the hot tip. BOSU’s and Dura Discs make PT’s look cool and educated to the masses of idiots spending money in commercial gyms. If bullshit exercises didn’t sell, you wouldn’t see ab rollers, rockers, twisters and etc on infomercials.

Get with it mate. Bullshit sells and nobody wants to do get ‘in shape’ the old fashioned way. Through hard fucking work. People get strong under the iron on a stable surface.

34

[quote]CHEKonIT wrote:
Chek’s studies [/quote]

I - and many others - followed Chek’s advice on sucking the stomach in when squatting - and we hurt our backs. There’s a reason he has such a small cult.

The guy was big for a while. Then we tried his stuff and realized it was harmful.

35

“Entertainment Training”
by Charles Poliquin

The BOSU ball? The BOSU ball is a Swiss ball for morons! For one thing, when you stand on it you’re always bowlegged. Why do you want to get into a position that’s not good for your knees and ankles? What about doing it on one foot? So what, then you have to reduce the load!

I call this “entertainment training,” not strength training. And any time I see that horseshit, I want to kick the personal trainer in the head with a pair of steal-toe construction boots.

36

[quote]Iron Beast wrote:
dreads989 wrote:
Somehow, I doubt that PTs are “piss” or "Dipshit"s. And i also highly doubt that you are more intellectual than them, or have more knowledge of the human body.

Just my 2 cents

Keep your 2 cents.

You’ve never seen a ‘weak as piss’ PT? You must have a great home gym because every commercial gym I step into is infested with them.

Have you looked into how easy it is to become a PT these days? The knowledge of the human body barely scratches the surface.

I gots me a degree in Sports Science mate and by no means am I claiming to be any form of oracle, but I’ll take that over a PT’s course. The majority of what a PT learns in their course in regards to anatomy is covered in the first 2 lectures in a Sport Science Degree.

Are you a PT? Did you get to work with cadavers in your course? A sports science degree covers it pretty well in my mind.

Sorry if my few cuss words made you think I was not up to the intellectual standard of a PT who got their qualification in less than three months.

I’ve also worked with some great strength coaches who can lift serious weight in bench, squat, dead, clean, jerk, snatch and so on. None of them got that way by BOSU’s, Dura Discs, and the like.

I’ll give you the hot tip. BOSU’s and Dura Discs make PT’s look cool and educated to the masses of idiots spending money in commercial gyms. If bullshit exercises didn’t sell, you wouldn’t see ab rollers, rockers, twisters and etc on infomercials.

Get with it mate. Bullshit sells and nobody wants to do get ‘in shape’ the old fashioned way. Through hard fucking work. People get strong under the iron on a stable surface.

[/quote]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I am undergoing school right now to become A physical Therapist. As far as learning to “barely scratch the surface”, I can’t tell you how wrong that is.

We take 8 weeks of gross anatomy, 1 semester of physiology, 1 semester of anatomy, 1 semester of biomechanics, and well over 100-200 hours of clinicals. I’m going to get a Doctorate in Physical Therapy, A bachelors in Exercise Science, and possibly my Athletic Training Certification. I also aim on getting my ACSM certification sometime next year (funds permitting).

37

of course, I am talking about Physical Therapy, and you are probably talking about Personal Trainers (?). If that’s so, sorry. And yes, you are right lol.

38

Shit hey! Reading through that reminded me of my highschool days.

Keep it nice kids.

I made my own mind up anyway.

Functional exercise is based around natures human movement or like CHEK calls it primal pattern, and Shmidt calls it something else. This is based on caveman or small children, etc. Not taught, more coded DNA stuff.

So all movements come from squat, bend, lunge, twist, etc, etc. These are functional movements that we use in daily life.

Speficity refers to specific movements for certain activities such as pullups with rock type grips for a rockclimber. Also energy system training.

Prof X
No need to get so upset, its a discussion board, we can discuss.

Functional exercises has to integrate all muscles in certain movements. So not really isolation exercises, although they may help with weak areas, but you’d be foolish to only ever do isolation.

See how many chinups you can do after spending a year doing just biceps curls and the pullover machine to hit the lats.

Functional never meant swiss ball squats or whatever. Maybe a few misguided Personal Tainers, but thats it.

Dura discs have a place in proprioception training.
While I dont use them all that often a dura disc can make a bulgarian split squat quite challenging. I use these mainly for the women who like entertainment training or maybe have some proproception issues in the ankle or knee…

…It’s far better than no exercise at all. You get alot of muscle working so calories are being spent and they dont use big weights so dont get huge thighs.

Remember you have to enjoy exercise and these gadjets keep some people interested.

Still seems that functional and specificty is almost the same thing.

Andrew

39

The motion the leg curl makes is not real world. I dont go picking up objects like that. Now the fact that it does develop the hamstrings is real world. I am wrong in the argument because you said real world strength, not real world motions, my mistake.

Mike

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Mike T. wrote:
The leg curl?

Are you being serious? Because leg curls don’t help develop the hamstrings? [/quote]

40

[quote]Vyapada wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:

Honestly I don’t think there’s any such thing as a non-functional exercise. Some things are more specific to certain functions than others.

In my mind, if there is a movement that the human body is capable of making, there is probably a reason that we can do it. If there is a reason that movement exists, it’s functional. Now, does training that movement help you with your goals? If you want bigger biceps, and the movement is an arm curl, you pretty much have to answer “yes.” In fact, no matter what your goal, curls would have some relevance. The level of relevance would change with the goal. If your goal is to be a better soccer player, curls are way down the list. That doesn’t mean that you will never use that movement in your life.