The waistline obsession is abviously (sic) pointless and wrong on so many levels I won’t bother to comment this. Especially if someone (facko) is rather young and in awe of heavy steroid use (sherk and hammer house).
Regarding his strikes, however, let me point the flaw in many people’s assumptions out:
Boxing is not “Striking” per se. Boxers are not the best strikers per se. Boxers need their many restrictions and rules to strike. Many boxers would lose the striking distance to nonboxers in an MMA fight or a bar brawl. Fedor’s boxing my be just good, but his striking is tremendous.
In a boxing match against a good pro he’d obviously have a hard time. Against the same guy in a bar, not so much. He’d use the striking distance for his own game and pummel the pro when stepping in and then on the ground.
If someone won’t separate boxing and striking, then yes, the Mayflowers are the best strikers. In a MMA Ring or the real world, however, they need to implement some new elements to their game to make use of their skill.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Regarding Fedor:
The waistline obsession is abviously (sic) pointless and wrong on so many levels I won’t bother to comment this. Especially if someone (facko) is rather young and in awe of heavy steroid use (sherk and hammer house).
Regarding his strikes, however, let me point the flaw in many people’s assumptions out:
Boxing is not “Striking” per se. Boxers are not the best strikers per se. Boxers need their many restrictions and rules to strike. Many boxers would lose the striking distance to nonboxers in an MMA fight or a bar brawl. Fedor’s boxing my be just good, but his striking is tremendous. In a boxing match against a good pro he’d obviously have a hard time. Against the same guy in a bar, not so much. He’d use the striking distance for his own game and pummel the pro when stepping in and then on the ground.
If someone won’t separate boxing and striking, then yes, the Mayflowers are the best strikers. In a MMA Ring or the real world, however, they need to implement some new elements to their game to make use of their skill.[/quote]
When did I ever disagree with this…and also I don’t know why everyone keeps bringing up me being young…yes I’m 20 years old. I don’t think anyone is arguing that a boxer would succeed in mma…what I’m saying is…if floyd mayweather went into mma and trained and had skills top notch skills on the ground and a GREAT takedown defense…
he’d be pretty much unstoppable. And I don’t have a waistline obsession…what I said was…if fedor ate only clean food like a machine and trained as hard as you say he does…he would look like it. THATS NOT TO SAY HE DOES NOT TRAIN HARD…obviously from all your input…he does…however its his diet…which was stated by another poster in this thread. Did I say that he was a bad fighter?
No…Did I say his striking was shit IN MMA? No. I said that his striking was subpar against a true boxer in a boxing ring…or a great muay thai fighter muay thai rules…that has nothing to do with them fighting him in mma as that would not be just striking. But if you are going to call someone an ELITE striker…
it better be more than just an elite striker in mma…because as a whole they arent very elite compared to boxing nor muay thai. That is nothing to get flamed for. And again…a fighter can only benefit from being at a certain weight with a better body composition.
ALSO…You make a point about a boxer not being able to fight in a bar!!! WTF. As if to say boxers aren’t tough guys…they just know boxing and are reduced to retards out of the ring? Lemme explain how this is wrong. Most boxers are street guys. Do you honestly think that mike tyson in his prime did not know to fight on the street?
Because he didn’t have a black belt in bjj? Some guys are GOOD fighters without formal training. Thats to say that most boxers…(arturo gatti, mickey ward, meldrick taylor, mike tyson, julio ceaser chavez, marvin hagler, Vasquez etc etc) are ALL tough street guys that were in many “bar brawls” as you say or more or less street fights. They fought all there lives in poverty, shit and squaller and used boxing as a means to get out of there shitty conditions.
Please don’t for once kid yourself and think that all they know is how to box. You don’t need to be a wrestler to know how to double leg mount and punch…or sprawl…or bite or kick or knee…
Boxing is not “Striking” per se. Boxers are not the best strikers per se. Boxers need their many restrictions and rules to strike. Many boxers would lose the striking distance to nonboxers in an MMA fight or a bar brawl. Fedor’s boxing my be just good, but his striking is tremendous. In a boxing match against a good pro he’d obviously have a hard time. Against the same guy in a bar, not so much. He’d use the striking distance for his own game and pummel the pro when stepping in and then on the ground.
If someone won’t separate boxing and striking, then yes, the Mayflowers are the best strikers. In a MMA Ring or the real world, however, they need to implement some new elements to their game to make use of their skill.[/quote]
You need to be very, very careful here.
MMA is NOT the real world. It is not the equivalent of a barfight, in any way, shape or form. Most boxers I’ve seen do very well in streetfights, and probably would be even better than MMA practitioners, because they are drilled on how to bob and weave, roll with punches, and counter. MMA guys are not as skilled in this, because they don’t have to be- the combination is more imnportant in boxing.
Either way, DO NOT make it sounds like MMA is the equivalent of a streetfight- it is not, in any way, the equivalent of a bar brawl.
An MMA guy will not “have a hard time”. He will get murdered in a boxing ring with a good boxer. People just explained the difference- the MMA sloppier style is needed for what they do, to defend against more than punches. But in a boxing ring, with boxing rules, that sloppiness would be what ended them.
They are far too loose, keep their elbows to far out, and keep their hands too low. Anyone who thinks that somone who is not a boxer could go more than three rounds in the ring with someone who is, is nuts. The opposite is also true.
When I spar with my one training partner, he kills me in standup because I fight like a traditional boxer and he’s learned more Muay Thai type stuff. You take out the kicking, though, and me and him are dead even. And I’m not that good of a boxer.
To Facko- don’t say that we’re going to piss all over boxing, man. This ain’t Sherdog. Although I love rolling, and truly enjoy doing the sport, I don’t follow MMA at all, and know very little about Fedor or Chuck Liddell or anyone else that people talk about here. I’m a boxing guy, and I can’t watch an MMA fight to save my life… too fucking boring.
This forum has been actually one of the best, most open places about the martial arts I’ve seen on the net. There are very few judgemental people here in regard to one art or the other.
To Facko- don’t say that we’re going to piss all over boxing, man. This ain’t Sherdog. Although I love rolling, and truly enjoy doing the sport, I don’t follow MMA at all, and know very little about Fedor or Chuck Liddell or anyone else that people talk about here. I’m a boxing guy, and I can’t watch an MMA fight to save my life… too fucking boring.
When did I ever disagree with this…and also I don’t know why everyone keeps bringing up me being young…yes I’m 20 years old. I don’t think anyone is arguing that a boxer would succeed in mma…what I’m saying is…if floyd mayweather went into mma and trained and had skills top notch skills on the ground and a GREAT takedown defense…he’d be pretty much unstoppable.
And I don’t have a waistline obsession…what I said was…if fedor ate only clean food like a machine and trained as hard as you say he does…he would look like it. THATS NOT TO SAY HE DOES NOT TRAIN HARD…obviously from all your input…he does…however its his diet…which was stated by another poster in this thread.
Did I say that he was a bad fighter? No…Did I say his striking was shit IN MMA? No. I said that his striking was subpar against a true boxer in a boxing ring…or a great muay thai fighter muay thai rules…that has nothing to do with them fighting him in mma as that would not be just striking.
But if you are going to call someone an ELITE striker…it better be more than just an elite striker in mma…because as a whole they arent very elite compared to boxing nor muay thai. That is nothing to get flamed for. And again…a fighter can only benefit from being at a certain weight with a better body composition.
[/quote]
I agree with this. Mayweather, however, would be unstoppable not because he is a striker, but because he is a genetic wild card that is the most talented fighter alive right now. If he really wanted to train in MMA, he could be the best.
Don’t forget Roberto Duran… I completely agree with this.
I know everyone will hate me for this, but MMA always struck me as the rich-white-kid, I’m-angry-at-my-dad-look-how-many-tattoos-I-have-and-I’m-so-tough kind of thing. I know it’s not, and many good guys come out of it, but maybe I’m just tired of hearing every tough guy in the street say, “I do MMA, I’m so fucking tough.” It makes me take it out on the sport I guess. Who knows.
Boxing, though, is still the music of the streets… the rhythyms are perfect, like any good rap song, and these guys fight because if they don’t the don’t eat. Like I said, though, I’m a boxing guy. Everyone’s got their own opinion.
To Facko- don’t say that we’re going to piss all over boxing, man. This ain’t Sherdog. Although I love rolling, and truly enjoy doing the sport, I don’t follow MMA at all, and know very little about Fedor or Chuck Liddell or anyone else that people talk about here. I’m a boxing guy, and I can’t watch an MMA fight to save my life… too fucking boring.
Confused bro? I been defending boxing.
[/quote]
No, no, I’m just saying that this isn’t like alot of forums where they will piss all over boxing… alot of guys around here love it. I was just saying you needn’t be so defensive about it.
No…Did I say his striking was shit IN MMA? No. I said that his striking was subpar against a true boxer in a boxing ring…or a great muay thai fighter muay thai rules…that has nothing to do with them fighting him in mma as that would not be just striking.
[/quote]
No, you said:
[quote]facko wrote:
and thats not to say that amoung other mma fighters fedor has great stand up skill. BUT, that does not make him a world class striker. Floyd mayweather is a world class striker…Ali was a world class striker. I would not consider cro cop a world class figher compared to them. And I’m sure boxing will get shit on by you mma guys as it always does…but ADMIT the truth.
[/quote]
World class striking = not world class boxing. Striking, as in fighting with fists is not boxing.
Floyd M. is foremost a world class boxer.
THAT is the truth.
[quote]facko wrote:
ALSO…You make a point about a boxer not being able to fight in a bar!!! WTF. As if to say boxers aren’t tough guys…they just know boxing and are reduced to retards out of the ring?
[/quote]
It goes without saying that a boxer is usually a safe bet in a barbrawl. But he’s not the best “striker” per se. Many techniques don’t function at all in a real fight. This especially includes using the gloves for protection and the boxer clinch.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
You need to be very, very careful here.
MMA is NOT the real world. It is not the equivalent of a barfight, in any way, shape or form. Most boxers I’ve seen do very well in streetfights, and probably would be even better than MMA practitioners, because they are drilled on how to bob and weave, roll with punches, and counter. MMA guys are not as skilled in this, because they don’t have to be- the combination is more imnportant in boxing.
[/quote]
absolutely
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Either way, DO NOT make it sounds like MMA is the equivalent of a streetfight- it is not, in any way, the equivalent of a bar brawl.
[/quote]
alas, here I think you are erring. MMA is clearly better suited for a one-on-one bar brawl.
Make no mistake, I love boxing and I plan to refresh my skills in a few weeks.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
2. An MMA guy will not “have a hard time”. He will get murdered in a boxing ring with a good boxer. People just explained the difference- the MMA sloppier style is needed for what they do, to defend against more than punches. But in a boxing ring, with boxing rules, that sloppiness would be what ended them. They are far too loose, keep their elbows to far out, and keep their hands too low. Anyone who thinks that somone who is not a boxer could go more than three rounds in the ring with someone who is, is nuts. The opposite is also true.
When I spar with my one training partner, he kills me in standup because I fight like a traditional boxer and he’s learned more Muay Thai type stuff. You take out the kicking, though, and me and him are dead even. And I’m not that good of a boxer.
[/quote]
I was specifically talking about Fedor. It cannot be disputed that he will look FAR better against a top boxer then a top boxer like Mayweather will look against, say, GSP.
[/quote]
No…Did I say his striking was shit IN MMA? No. I said that his striking was subpar against a true boxer in a boxing ring…or a great muay thai fighter muay thai rules…that has nothing to do with them fighting him in mma as that would not be just striking.
No, you said:
facko wrote:
and thats not to say that amoung other mma fighters fedor has great stand up skill. BUT, that does not make him a world class striker. Floyd mayweather is a world class striker…Ali was a world class striker. I would not consider cro cop a world class figher compared to them. And I’m sure boxing will get shit on by you mma guys as it always does…but ADMIT the truth.
World class striking = not world class boxing. Striking, as in fighting with fists is not boxing.
Floyd M. is foremost a world class boxer.
THAT is the truth.
facko wrote:
ALSO…You make a point about a boxer not being able to fight in a bar!!! WTF. As if to say boxers aren’t tough guys…they just know boxing and are reduced to retards out of the ring?
It goes without saying that a boxer is usually a safe bet in a barbrawl. But he’s not the best “striker” per se. Many techniques don’t function at all in a real fight. This especially includes using the gloves for protection and the boxer clinch.
Him being young has nothing to do with dick. I’m 22. He’s 20.
I don’t care if he just beat up Big Nog, Cro Cop, and the Klitchko bros. simultaneously then parted the red sea while being felated by adriana lima.
I’d still think he was wrong even with those credentials. (Though I’d be your #1 fan).
[quote]Did I say that he was a bad fighter? No…Did I say his striking was shit IN MMA? No. I said that his striking was subpar against a true boxer in a boxing ring…or a great muay thai fighter muay thai rules…that has nothing to do with them fighting him in mma as that would not be just striking.
But if you are going to call someone an ELITE striker…it better be more than just an elite striker in mma…because as a whole they arent very elite compared to boxing nor muay thai.
[/quote]
I understand (now) the point you’re trying to make but perhaps next time you should attempt to be clearer. Because if it appeared to me and several other posters that you were simply poo-poo’ing Fedor’s striking ability. Then regardless of what you meant…that is how it still came across.
Like I said in my post.
Fedor’s striking ability compared to WHAT.
Bringing up Fedor’s striking as compared to a marquess of queensberry boxer, or a muay thai boxer, is absurd. And, again, as I said was irrelevant to the discussion. The comparison is unfair because he’s never boxed nor does he intend to.
If you wish to discuss the effectiveness of his striking ability discuss it in relevance to the sport he participates in.
MMA.
In MMA he fights former K-1 kickboxers (cro cop), bjj black belts (big nog), judo black belts (big nog, yoshida), and cuban national boxing team members (big nog (again) ).
You’re asserting that calling someone an elite striker means they should transcend just MMA.
Which is dubious, but debatable.
I went over this in my post previously and you never addressed those point because I believe you got sidetracked by everyone else.
Most boxers won’t do well in MT, or MMA. Most MMA or MT guys won’t do well in Boxing. This is no way indicative of their skill level or eliminates them from obtaining elite status in my opinion.
reasoning behind this: (from my previous post)
Regarding the best striker argument though… Im sure boxing would be harder to someone raised thaiboxing since he was 3-4years old. Thats like running the boston marathon being harder to Lance Armstrong than the Tour De France.
Also in your initial post you turned this into an issue of not just “Fedor’s striking is just ‘ok’” but “Boxing is superior to MMA in striking”.
Unfortunately that just doesn’t fly either bro…
Two completely different sports. While MMA borrows a lot from boxing and muay thai. And Muay thai still contains what seems to be basic boxing. They are all very, very, VERY different.We can sit here all day and analyze technique and argue which is superior, but its all different because the rules are different, you’re judged differently, and each has various ways to ensure a victory.
These analogous comparisons are just ridiculous, and as I’m trying to show you, are riddled with logical fallacies. It’s all over everything you’ve written and I’m having the hardest time getting you to see that.
Now lets address some other things you’ve said:
[quote]Please don’t for once kid yourself and think that all they know is how to box. You don’t need to be a wrestler to know how to double leg mount and punch…or sprawl…or bite or kick or knee…
[/quote]
Correct. But I can reverse that and say you don’t need to be a boxer to know how to throw a right cross, or a left hook. That said if you want to do it properly you would learn how to box. Likewise if you want to do all those things properly you would learn how wrestle. Again, don’t contradict yourself.
That said I agree with you… the bar-room scenario is just absurd. This is sportfighting for cryin out loud. Moving along.
[quote]a fighter can only benefit from being at a certain weight with a better body composition
[/quote]
Right. I agree. But how much more benefit can Fedor get… at one point in time, and arguably still… he is the greatest heavyweight MMA fighter in the world. Why fix something if it isn’t broken.
You’re just arm chair quarterbacking. Its the same kind of attitude that talks about how “wrong” Reggie Miller used to shoot, even though he’s arguably the best 3 point shooter ever in the history of basketball. It might be wrong, but it works. Why would you “fix it” and limit someone’s potential.
Again think about it a little further.
Now, again, you contradicted yourself. You begin by questioning his conditioning, and if he’s really training hard. Now I’m sorry but what more does he have to do in order to prove to you that he trains hard and he is effective?
HE IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD. Because YOU assume he’s doing something wrong because he doesn’t fit your aesthetic ideal of a fighter is beyond foolhardy. And I’m trying very hard to continue typing this without it become some sort of personal attack because I have nothing against you, but to be completly honest you’re being a gigantic idiot if you don’t see the simple logic…
You’re saying… He’d be better if he lost some fat.
Ok Better than who?
Himself?
He’s #1.
The standard everyone else is trying to obtain.
Ok… You’re right…and I’d agree… theoretically… he’d be “better” at a lower bodyfat level. But you blantantly questioned if he’s training hard enough to reach his potential.
What’s his potential?
To be #1.
What is he?
#1.
He’s training hard enough. NEXT ISSUE.
you keep changing your argument later on in later posts “no what I was saying was…” ok fine… Yes being at a lower bodyfat is better. So what. He doesn’t need it. Not because He’s a heavyweight, or doesn’t need to worry about cutting weight (no idea how tf that came up).
Because he obviously has a system that is working 100% fine for him. When Fedor gets defeated and its as a result of his conditioning THEN we can question his bodyfat. But his conditioning has NEVER EVER been suspect.
next…
[quote]and thats not to say that amoung other mma fighters fedor has great stand up skill. BUT, that does not make him a world class striker. Floyd mayweather is a world class striker…Ali was a world class striker. I would not consider cro cop a world class figher compared to them. And I’m sure boxing will get shit on by you mma guys as it always does…but ADMIT the truth.
Have you really seen a fighter in the mma that had mayweathers boxing skills mixed with fedors ground game? Honestly? Until I see that I just can’t respect the term world class striker being thrown around.
And do not try to make the argument that muay thai counts as being world class…because I know countless GOOD muay thai fighters that have switched to boxing simply because “muay thai was too easy” in their own words. Terdsak Jandaeng being one of them.
[/quote]
I’ll touch on this one more time since it’s a recurring theme.
YOU.
not anyone else.
YOU.
Turned this into Boxers as the superior strikers vs MMA Fighters .
Boxing, Muay Thai, MMA… are 3 different sports what you do in one will not work in the other.
You’re comparing apples and oranges.
WHAT BOXERS DO IN BOXING WILL NOT WORK IN MMA OR MUAY THAI BECAUSE THEY ARE MOTHERFUCKING DIFFERENT SPORTS ALL TOGETHER.
If someone had mayweathers boxing skill and fedor’s ground game, i guarantee he’d end up facing i dunno… malapeit and get eaten alive. because he’d use mayweathers wide boxing stance and eat a shitload of leg kicks and body kicks, Hell once they clinch, knees and elbows would be all over his face. He’d be a bleeding mess.
But in the very same vein, I’ll take Mayweather vs any equally weighted fighter from any other sport against the world and I bet mayweather whole whoop his fucking ass in boxing. BECAUSE THATS WHAT HE DOES. HE BOXES.
I said it earlier we can sit here and analyze technique for years… the conclusion you will come to is that they are 3 different sports and what works for one will not work in the other.
You like boxing. No problem with that. I love it too.
You think boxing striking looks cleaner and more crisp than mma striking. Hell I fucking agree.
But you’re not going to see someone fight in MMA like they do in boxing. IT WILL NOT WORK. Fuck go back and watch ufc 1-8. We figured that out already. You’re not going to see a Muay Thaiboxer fight like Mayweather. It just won’t work in that arena. BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT.
Thats not to say that you can’t use boxing to defeat a kicker, but you can use kicking to defeat a boxer… at a certain point it comes down to the fighter and not the art.
But please.
don’t make me repeat this shit again.
comparing boxing to mma or muay thai is a pointless endeavor.
this is the logical fallacy you’re committing. I forgot what its called but you’ll get the gist. You’re evaluating a group according to the values and standards of YOUR group. Rather than by the standards of their own group.
Thats like seeing someone ritually slaughter a chicken and let the blood drip to the ground. You’re american and you think that its barbaric so you are now of the opinion that those people are barbarians, brutes, and fucking crazy.
But to the person within that culture its just fucking normal. It’s the proper way to prepare their food.
You’re doing the same thing… and all it does is lead to division as this thread has shown.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Him being young has nothing to do with dick. I’m 22. He’s 20.
I don’t care if he just beat up Big Nog, Cro Cop, and the Klitchko bros. simultaneously then parted the red sea while being felated by adriana lima.
I’d still think he was wrong even with those credentials. (Though I’d be your #1 fan).
Did I say that he was a bad fighter? No…Did I say his striking was shit IN MMA? No. I said that his striking was subpar against a true boxer in a boxing ring…or a great muay thai fighter muay thai rules…that has nothing to do with them fighting him in mma as that would not be just striking. But if you are going to call someone an ELITE striker…it better be more than just an elite striker in mma…because as a whole they arent very elite compared to boxing nor muay thai.
I understand (now) the point you’re trying to make but perhaps next time you should attempt to be clearer. Because if it appeared to me and several other posters that you were simply poo-poo’ing Fedor’s striking ability. Then regardless of what you meant…that is how it still came across.
Like I said in my post.
Fedor’s striking ability compared to WHAT.
Bringing up Fedor’s striking as compared to a marquess of queensberry boxer, or a muay thai boxer, is absurd. And, again, as I said was irrelevant to the discussion. The comparison is unfair because he’s never boxed nor does he intend to.
If you wish to discuss the effectiveness of his striking ability discuss it in relevance to the sport he participates in.
MMA.
In MMA he fights former K-1 kickboxers (cro cop), bjj black belts (big nog), judo black belts (big nog, yoshida), and cuban national boxing team members (big nog (again) ).
You’re asserting that calling someone an elite striker means they should transcend just MMA.
Which is dubious, but debatable.
I went over this in my post previously and you never addressed those point because I believe you got sidetracked by everyone else.
Most boxers won’t do well in MT, or MMA. Most MMA or MT guys won’t do well in Boxing. This is no way indicative of their skill level or eliminates them from obtaining elite status in my opinion.
reasoning behind this: (from my previous post)
Regarding the best striker argument though… Im sure boxing would be harder to someone raised thaiboxing since he was 3-4years old. Thats like running the boston marathon being harder to Lance Armstrong than the Tour De France.
Also in your initial post you turned this into an issue of not just “Fedor’s striking is just ‘ok’” but “Boxing is superior to MMA in striking”.
Unfortunately that just doesn’t fly either bro…
Two completely different sports. While MMA borrows a lot from boxing and muay thai. And Muay thai still contains what seems to be basic boxing. They are all very, very, VERY different.We can sit here all day and analyze technique and argue which is superior, but its all different because the rules are different, you’re judged differently, and each has various ways to ensure a victory.
These analogous comparisons are just ridiculous, and as I’m trying to show you, are riddled with logical fallacies. It’s all over everything you’ve written and I’m having the hardest time getting you to see that.
Now lets address some other things you’ve said:
Please don’t for once kid yourself and think that all they know is how to box. You don’t need to be a wrestler to know how to double leg mount and punch…or sprawl…or bite or kick or knee…
Correct. But I can reverse that and say you don’t need to be a boxer to know how to throw a right cross, or a left hook. That said if you want to do it properly you would learn how to box. Likewise if you want to do all those things properly you would learn how wrestle. Again, don’t contradict yourself.
That said I agree with you… the bar-room scenario is just absurd. This is sportfighting for cryin out loud. Moving along.
a fighter can only benefit from being at a certain weight with a better body composition
Right. I agree. But how much more benefit can Fedor get… at one point in time, and arguably still… he is the greatest heavyweight MMA fighter in the world. Why fix something if it isn’t broken. You’re just arm chair quarterbacking. Its the same kind of attitude that talks about how “wrong” Reggie Miller used to shoot, even though he’s arguably the best 3 point shooter ever in the history of basketball. It might be wrong, but it works. Why would you “fix it” and limit someone’s potential.
Again think about it a little further.
Then why is he always so soft looking…honestly?
…
And I’m sorry…If someone is KILLING themselves in training…especially fighting type training which is all anaerobic and aerobic …and eating clean…there is no way they can be soft looking
…
but ussually…the good fighters…are lean and muscular…Now I don’t remember once saying Fedor was a bad fighter…did I? I said he looked soft
Now, again, you contradicted yourself. You begin by questioning his conditioning, and if he’s really training hard. Now I’m sorry but what more does he have to do in order to prove to you that he trains hard and he is effective? HE IS THE BEST IN THE WORLD. Because YOU assume he’s doing something wrong because he doesn’t fit your aesthetic ideal of a fighter is beyond foolhardy. And I’m trying very hard to continue typing this without it become some sort of personal attack because I have nothing against you, but to be completly honest you’re being a gigantic idiot if you don’t see the simple logic…
You’re saying… He’d be better if he lost some fat.
Ok Better than who?
Himself?
He’s #1.
The standard everyone else is trying to obtain.
Ok… You’re right…and I’d agree… theoretically… he’d be “better” at a lower bodyfat level. But you blantantly questioned if he’s training hard enough to reach his potential.
What’s his potential?
To be #1.
What is he?
#1.
He’s training hard enough. NEXT ISSUE.
you keep changing your argument later on in later posts “no what I was saying was…” ok fine… Yes being at a lower bodyfat is better. So what. He doesn’t need it. Not because He’s a heavyweight, or doesn’t need to worry about cutting weight (no idea how tf that came up). Because he obviously has a system that is working 100% fine for him. When Fedor gets defeated and its as a result of his conditioning THEN we can question his bodyfat. But his conditioning has NEVER EVER been suspect.
next…
and thats not to say that amoung other mma fighters fedor has great stand up skill. BUT, that does not make him a world class striker. Floyd mayweather is a world class striker…Ali was a world class striker. I would not consider cro cop a world class figher compared to them. And I’m sure boxing will get shit on by you mma guys as it always does…but ADMIT the truth.
Have you really seen a fighter in the mma that had mayweathers boxing skills mixed with fedors ground game? Honestly? Until I see that I just can’t respect the term world class striker being thrown around. And do not try to make the argument that muay thai counts as being world class…because I know countless GOOD muay thai fighters that have switched to boxing simply because “muay thai was too easy” in their own words. Terdsak Jandaeng being one of them.
I’ll touch on this one more time since it’s a recurring theme.
YOU.
not anyone else.
YOU.
Turned this into Boxers as the superior strikers vs MMA Fighters .
Boxing, Muay Thai, MMA… are 3 different sports what you do in one will not work in the other.
You’re comparing apples and oranges.
WHAT BOXERS DO IN BOXING WILL NOT WORK IN MMA OR MUAY THAI BECAUSE THEY ARE MOTHERFUCKING DIFFERENT SPORTS ALL TOGETHER.
If someone had mayweathers boxing skill and fedor’s ground game, i guarantee he’d end up facing i dunno… malapeit and get eaten alive. because he’d use mayweathers wide boxing stance and eat a shitload of leg kicks and body kicks, Hell once they clinch, knees and elbows would be all over his face. He’d be a bleeding mess.
But in the very same vein, I’ll take Mayweather vs any equally weighted fighter from any other sport against the world and I bet mayweather whole whoop his fucking ass in boxing. BECAUSE THATS WHAT HE DOES. HE BOXES.
I said it earlier we can sit here and analyze technique for years… the conclusion you will come to is that they are 3 different sports and what works for one will not work in the other.
You like boxing. No problem with that. I love it too.
You think boxing striking looks cleaner and more crisp than mma striking. Hell I fucking agree.
But you’re not going to see someone fight in MMA like they do in boxing. IT WILL NOT WORK. Fuck go back and watch ufc 1-8. We figured that out already. You’re not going to see a Muay Thaiboxer fight like Mayweather. It just won’t work in that arena. BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT.
Thats not to say that you can’t use boxing to defeat a kicker, but you can use kicking to defeat a boxer… at a certain point it comes down to the fighter and not the art.
But please.
don’t make me repeat this shit again.
comparing boxing to mma or muay thai is a pointless endeavor.
this is the logical fallacy you’re committing. I forgot what its called but you’ll get the gist. You’re evaluating a group according to the values and standards of YOUR group. Rather than by the standards of their own group.
Thats like seeing someone ritually slaughter a chicken and let the blood drip to the ground. You’re american and you think that its barbaric so you are now of the opinion that those people are barbarians, brutes, and fucking crazy.
But to the person within that culture its just fucking normal. It’s the proper way to prepare their food.
You’re doing the same thing… and all it does is lead to division as this thread has shown.[/quote]
All good and well taken points…I contradicted myself more out of frustration than anything else. But I think you saw some of the main recurring points I was trying to make.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
this is the logical fallacy you’re committing. I forgot what its called but you’ll get the gist. You’re evaluating a group according to the values and standards of YOUR group. Rather than by the standards of their own group. [/quote]
Ethnocentrism, may be the word you’re looking for. It’s basically judging others cultures in comparison to your own. In this case it takes on added pugilistic dimensions, but it could be said that we each descend from a different fighting “culture” or school of thought.
Either way, DO NOT make it sounds like MMA is the equivalent of a streetfight- it is not, in any way, the equivalent of a bar brawl.
alas, here I think you are erring. MMA is clearly better suited for a one-on-one bar brawl.
[/quote]
I absolutely disagree. I’ve been over this a million and one times, but rarely are bar fights one on one, and the last place you want to go is the ground in a streetfight- it will get you killed.
A good boxer will do what he has to, and then be in position to Get the fuck out of there before cops or the cavalry come. MMA, though violent, is a sport that relies heavily on ground fighting. When your instincts take over and you get the guy on the ground, don’t blame me when you get kicked in the head.
By what rules? MMA rules?
MMA incorporates striking, so obviously he’ll look better than Mayweather or a boxer with no grappling experience in MMA. But the rules make the fight, so I still don’t see a point to this part of your post.
If you put Fedor in the ring with boxing rules and a comparable heavyweight, i.e. Klitscho, he’ll get ruined.
“Looking better” don’t mean shit when you’re still knocked out.
And I’m not saying one is better than the other- I agree with Xen’s post completely.
But I don’t like that people think that an MMA guy will be OK in a boxing match- they won’t. The damn rules change everything- they’re different sports.
May as well say, “Who would win in a hockey game, the Celtics or the Red Sox?”
Makes about as much sense as this whole shit does.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
And I’m not saying one is better than the other- I agree with Xen’s post completely.
But I don’t like that people think that an MMA guy will be OK in a boxing match- they won’t. The damn rules change everything- they’re different sports.
May as well say, “Who would win in a hockey game, the Celtics or the Red Sox?”
Makes about as much sense as this whole shit does.[/quote]
The problem lies in the simplification and categorization. Like I already mentioned, Boxing = Striking and Fighing = distinctive style.
Just as I pointed out that there is a “striking” above what’s boxing, there is a “fighting” above MMA/Boxing/Judo/ etc. And MMA simply is closer to all around Fighting then Boxing is.
And this has zero to do with comparing dick length of various styles.
Boxing was once the manliest sport for a reason.
The undisputed heavyweight champion was called in german “Meister aller Klassen” which means “Master of all classes”. I’m sure there is a similar term in English. It basically meant that this guy was regarded as the strongest alpha on Earth. Before that, for various reasons, people thought it was wrestling. Whatever.
Today, thanks to MMA, more people then ever know that you can’t feel like you’ve got the biggest cojones with just one style. And the heavyweight champions of MMA (Fedor, Big Nog) are naturally the perfect blend of many styles which they can use under a minumum of rules.
