Hello T Nation! I am relatively new to bodybuilding and have been weightlifting for 6-9 months. I have a couple questions that I have been trying to resolve for months now but to no avail.
How do I know when to UP the weight for a exercise? — I asked my absolutely jacked gym buddy how he knows when to go up and he said “I just do it by feel.” Maybe it’s just me but I have not found much success doing that. Take bent over rows for example. I’ll add some weight on cuz I feel like I can do more and then instead of doing 6 clean reps I’ll do like 3.
I was told by another buddy of mine to set rep ranges for exercises so that I will know when to go up. For example I’ll set a rep range of 3-6 for benchpressing. I do 3 sets of benching in my self made program, so I choose a weight I can do for an average of 3 reps MAX for all 3 sets, then I do that weight for the next couple weeks until I bench that weight for an average of 6 reps MAX for all 3 sets, that’s when I’ll bump the weight up to a point where I am again doing an average of 3 reps MAX for each set and then I repeat the process.
Honestly this makes the most logical sense for me but then this leaves me doing every set to failure. I’m told this isn’t that good because it’s hard to recover from doing all sets to failure.
Should I do every set to failure? And how do I know how many sets I should be doing of each exercise? — I’m going to be honest when I say that I have chosen to do 3 sets of each exercise in a row for no reason other than 3 seems like a good number. My leg day for example consists of:
3 sets deadlifting for a rep range of 6-9
3 sets leg press for a rep range of 8-11
3 sets leg extension for a rep range of 8-11
(All sets are to failure)
By the time I get to leg extensions I feel like the reps I do are crappy which makes me feel like my workout is not having as great of an effect as it could be. Maybe this is because I am doing too many sets for compound exercises such as deadlifts, or maybe because I’ve already hit quads twice by the time I get to leg extensions, or maybe it’s because I’m doing too many sets to failure. But I am unsure what to do.
Is my self made legday program good? If not what exercises should I add in or swap with the ones I am already doing? And for how many reps and sets.
FINAL NOTES:
Honestly reading through this before I post it, I realize that this sounds like a whiney, long list of complaints. And it might be just that due to how frustrating it is trying to find answers to these questions. But I want to say that although my bodybuilding journey is frustrating at times, I won’t quit even if I have to continue with my crappy program because this is one of the only things I actually enjoy doing and that gives me happiness in life😃
That’s a pretty solid handbook from one of the most-renowned coaches on earth, who also answers questions right here on the forums!
Anyway, to your questions:
Your buddy is pretty onto it, in my opinion, for bodybuilding. Lift more when you can. The article I posted above talks about a “triple progression,” which is similar to the double progression you wrote of but also periodizes rep schemes.
Incidentally, your rep ranges are low for bodybuilding; I don’t see much reason to do rows below 6 reps. The delta between your bottom and top range is pretty narrow, as well. 3-4 sets of 8-12 is the a pretty good cliche.
You’re not doing every set to true failure, yet, because you simply can’t this early in your journey. This is one of those things that takes care of itself over time. If you follow a progression scheme, you’ll always push yourself a little harder. Eventually you will start hitting failure on just your last set; whichever set you hit failure on tends to become your last!
3-5 sets of 3-5 exercises per bodypart is a pretty easy rule of thumb for bodybuilding training. Or you can just leverage Dr. Clay Hyght’s template:
Pretty much never does someone write their own routine and crush it. Even folks that have been doing this a long time are as likely to tweak a program for their own needs vs make something up from scratch. I’d very highly recommend picking something you like from the reputable coaches (it’s all free) on this site and just running it.
Whenever your progression model tells you to. Just like your double-progression example as mentioned above; If the exercise calls for 3 sets of 8-10, you add weight when you hit 3 sets of 10. You then go to the bottom of the rep range and climb back up. What you’ve been doing is fine.
I believe in max safe reps. If your form breaks down or the bar dramatically slows - KILL THE SET. Maybe you could get one more if you really grind and anchor your body in different ways, but that’s teaching poor movement patterns and forcing progression in a way that can rarely be a good thing long-term (as well as potentially hindering your performance on your next sets).
At this stage in your learning you’re better off just jumping on something proven. Asking “is my program good” is so open for nuance that it could become tiresome for people that try to evaluate this stuff for you. Pick a number of days you are sure you can stick to, find a program that is that many days. Do it until it stops working.
As above, use something proven and follow its progression model.
Im posting this a lot at the minute but thats just because of the results im getting…
Watch this series of videos, and if you choose to do it then start with the full body. Even if you dont choose to do it there is some really good advice on rep ranges, progression, volume and frequency.
You got a lot of good questions and @TrainForPain gave a nice detailed explanation. My advice was going to be pick a program and follow it to the T for 6 months. When your just starting out, there’s a lot you learn as you go. Keep a log, stick to a program and be a student of the game. You’ll learn something knew every time you train.
Thank you for the inciteful reply, you’ve given me a lot to chew on.
One thing I don’t understand however is your recommendation of 8-12 reps for an exercise like rows. Why is that rep range better than something like 3-6? Wouldn’t 3-6 help build strength on top of hypertrophic gains? And if 8-12 is better for Rows, than what about other excersises like bench pressing, dumbell curls, and more? How do I decide a rep range for each exercise I choose to do?
Rep ranges are more about practicality than anything else. Consider a really hard set in each of these rep ranges:
1-6: Weights are very heavy, warm-ups can take a while, can be hard on recovery and the joints over time
15-30: Warm-ups are quick, but each set is nauseating and likely to be limited by your lungs more than your muscles
For most exercises, sets of 8-12 present a nice medium, which is why they’re the go-to choice for hypertrophy programs everywhere.
That said, for some exercises it can be more or less practical to use different ranges. For example, deadlifts are quite technically challenging, and I’ve never coached an athlete who can maintain good deadlift form after 6-7 reps. As a result, I almost never program deadlifts above 6 reps. In contrast, some of my athletes complain about some joint soreness if pushing exercises like leg extensions and lateral raises very heavy. Thus, I program those exercises in the 10-15 range mostly.
Lastly, learning to program for yourself is absolutely a worthwhile endeavour, but one needs some rules/constraints to not totally fly off the wall when getting started. This article @TrainForPain shared is really good
Well, first, I really recommend you follow a program rather than pick your own rep ranges.
That rep range was an example, but there are some advantages:
It gives you a little wider gap within which to progress.
It’s a little less technique-critical.
Hypertrophy requires volume; doing a billion sets to make it up will wear you down.
The heavier you go, the more beating your joints and tendons have to take.
It’s way easier to lose the target muscle focus the heavier you go, and distribute the load differently.
I’m certainly not saying you can’t do lower rep sets and get jacked, but it won’t fit as well into traditional bodybuilding programs. Coach Thibaudeau has a couple hypertrophy programs on this site built around 2- and 3-rep sets that I absolutely loved, but the program was appropriately designed around that.
In more generic templates, some lifts I’ll always go higher rep (curls, side raises, etc.). Some I prefer lower rep (deadlifts). Some are awesome no matter what (squats).
You have to consider the purpose of the movement and the muscle and joints involved. A heavy set of 3s on deadlift, great. A heavy set of 3s on curls, useless.
Right now consistency is more important than if you do 6 reps or 8 on a set of presses. Like the others said, stick to a tried and true program and you’ll figure it all out.
If you weren’t specifically asking about bodybuilding I’d be screaming “Do 531!”
Even though I feel that programming for yourself isn’t as complicated as a lot of people here make out, there needs to be a good amount of time spent in the trenches of other programs. It could be running them in the gym over a decent period of time or doing the neccessary ongoing reading to know the whys and hows… and then there’s the complication of how YOU will react in a myriad of ways. Going in blind is why such a large amount of people end up with things like shoulder girdle imbalances or endless plataeus and injuries. It’s so common for gym-goers to think they know some secret when it’s very, very likely they have no idea and can end up hindering themselves massively. Why not just jump on something that is 100% proven to be effective for sometimes 100,000+ trainees?
This is coming from someone that is making awesome progress on their own programming. I can’t pretend it’s not close to dozens of others, or that I didn’t make 5,371 mistakes along the way though. Program and split is the least important thing in mind. As long as theres a sensible balanced exercise choice and a progression model, most people will be golden. No need to figure that shit out when professionals have already done it better for 1,000s of clients. (whoops, that was a long-winded way of me saying I agree with you.)
I feel that a large amount of people chose the “evolve” path which they consider their own routine and do very well… it just might not happen right away unless they already know their bodies and have analysed programming enough. If you are solely talking about people in similar situations to OP though, i’m 100% with you. I was him once and I would have gotten on a lot better just following something from people that had a clue what they were on about. Why create the same hassle for himself as I did? There are tons of fantastic free to access routines out there…
Oi you, listen here. I haven’t had much time to elucidate any training thoughts here or elsewhere these past couple of weeks and now I’m back. If I want to over-excessively type to agree with people, I will.
I am not sure I agree with this statement, it maybe true if your goal is just working out but From what I see the number 1 reason people don’t progress (after no hard work or consistency) is either bad programming or not following a program. So many good programs out there for every level or coaches if that’s your thing, that there is really no need for people to create their own Frankenstein program. Now making tweaks or auto regulating are different and for me these only come after
When I’ve mentioned this before I’ve said along the lines of “if there is no specific goal”. I think “just working out” is an unnecessary criticism as there are plenty of people for whom just getting bigger and stronger is the only goal, and they push just as hard as any other trainee. I would go as far to say as a majority of people can get away with 16-20 smart exercise choices, 16-18 hard sets a day, 4 days a week, using double-progression on everything except for the main movements. If anything stalls, alter the rep range or rotate it out. If you look at 100s of power building programs you can see they are 95% identical. There are only so many GREAT exercises and all of them contain them - the only difference is the progression model.
Beating the log book, HARD work, and consistency are way more important.
I agree with this 100%. Bad programming however is down to people not knowing what the hell they are doing; unbalanced programs causing symmetry issues or injuries, bad exercise choices, not knowing anything about basic periodization, not being able to balance their recovery, doing too much junk volume and the biggest one I see… changing shit around too much. So many no-hopers get lost in late beginner/early-intermediate because they have a bad session or progress slows down dramatically. Oftentimes this is just the nature of getting stronger, THINGS SLOW DOWN. Getting 9, 8, 8 on a 3x8-10 exercise is progress! This gets lost on people because things are no longer happening as quickly or easily. Now you gotta make sure your nutrition is on point and your sleep is good. Adding 1-2 reps a session over the long-term course of a year is wonderful progress when you look back over your log book. This kind of training isn’t for everyone, and you’ve got to learn how to alter things when things go wrong, but it works.
Even saying all this I would still preach that for 99% of people following a ready-made program is the better choice. Why would anyone bother wanting to work all this stuff out when a professional has already created something that has a wealth of successful people in its backlog?
Wasn’t meant as a criticism, plenty of people just want to hit something hard in the gym and get a good pump and that is 100% ok. I have had periods where for months that was the only goal. But even then I followed a basic progression method or a training style (can’t think of a better word) from someone else and made it fit my time in the gym.
That’s the key for me. I talk to so many people who turn up and just wing it, what else but minimal results can they really expect? You have to have a pretty substantial understanding of your body and experience to be able to do that. Very few of them have earned the right to make good progress that way and eventually when they don’t make any at all, they’ll blame it on other things like genetics or “I can’t squat/bench/deadlift anymore because I have bad knees/shoulders/lower-back because I’m an idiot and my dumb wing it program made me push too hard or too much-causing regression and an accumulative injury I have no idea how to fix, my antagonist muscles are weak as shit too causing major imbalances, but it’s still the fault of the individual exercise”. I haven’t done exactly this, but early on I’ve been an idiot too and been the cause of my own problems. These things were learning opportunities though, not a chance to make an excuse.
All programs even professional ones are often inspired by others that came before. Be that the 3x5s, the 5x5s, the 531s, the 4-6 week rep range periodizations, set accumulation, dynamic double-progression, and everything in between. I’m doing pyramids/back-off sets on the main movements at the moment, perhaps some would consider that not my own program, and that’s fine…I’ve taken from lots of guys I listen to be it from here, a book, or anywhere else. At some point I’ll get bored or the progression will stop coming. Maybe I’ll try a phase of doing 5/3/1 on the main movements, maybe I’ll take from it and run it as a 10-8-6 or an 8-6-3 (Brad Kaczmarski has done exactly this with his athletes in the past). I consider this evolving my program for my needs. Others may say “well you’re just doing >program name here<”. There’s a fine line and there are only so many protocols all of us have that we know work well so it is forever going to be extremely rare that anything is completely unique.
