[quote]eic wrote:
Second, the pulls themselves are very technical lifts. It is hard to build strength to clean by cleaning.
[/quote]
Q. "Mr Schemansky how do I improve my snatch…
A. Snatch "
Holy crap, what a glorious thread. Hanley, I’m giving you neg rep points for not getting me in on this as soon as it started. I’m over-stimulated, like christmas morning, I just dont know which post to respond to first.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
It’d be nice if it worked that way eh…??
Explain this tho;
-There’s a guy in my gym who’s snatched 100kg pretty easily, yet only back squats 130-140 for sets of 5. I’d do 180-190 x5, but I’ve never power snatched more than 80ish kg.
-There’s a guy in the gym that has pulled 311kg, but only cleaned around 130-140kg. My best convo pull’s 200 3x5, but I’ve power cleaned 120kg (both done earlier in the year) and am confident I’ll full clean 140kg by year end.
So, what’s hte difference?? Technique. How long does it take to go from deadlifting 150kg to 250kg?? A long time. Would you be better focusing on strength or technique for that period of time?? It’s a no brainer for me anyway. I’ve far more strength than my technique allows me to use. ANd I would guess most people are the same.[/quote]
I’ll start by saying that yes, technique matters, it is HUGELY HUGELY important. But you cant compare lifter A and lifter B and say “Lifter A deadlifts more, Lifter B cleans more, therefore the deadlift has zero carryover to the clean, technique is the only thing worth training.” Different lifters get different carryover from different things (exercises or technique.) Brute strength is clearly not lifter A’s weak point, technique probably is. If lifter B has solid technique, then I’d be willing to bet that if he could get his deadlift to go up, his clean would follow.
I dont do full cleans on a regular basis. Continentals with an axle for strongman, and maybe some light full cleans messing around during warmups, but I max on cleans MAYBE twice a year, maybe less than once/year. Last year after focusing on deads (and high rep deads, no less) I maxed on my clean just to see where I was. I cleaned a 45lb pr. Having not trained my clean in … I dunno, months? This is, for sure, anecdotal evidence, an n=1 study, whatever you want to call it.
And while I’ve done plenty of cleaning in my life, my form is not textbook, and I’d be considered a total newb compared to anyone who’s trained and competed in OL for a long time, so you could even say this is an example of newbie gains. But you cant say that deadlift has NO carryover to a clean.
Anyone can tell me that the deadlift is not the be all and end all of training the classical lifts and I’ll agree. Anyone can tell me that it’s not even the most important (let alone the one and only) thing and I’d agree. But assuming that one’s form is decent enough on the clean that you dont look like you’re having a seizure, if your relative deadlift is not far, far superior (compared to others in your weight/age class) to your relative clean, then training your dead does have the possibility to have carryover to your clean.