Hi all–
I understand the idea that using freeweights is far superior to machines because you are working all the support muscles as well as the primary muscle.
However, when I’m doing incline shoulder presses, the weight I can lift with freeweights is half or less than half what I can do on a machine.
Am I getting a sufficient workout with my freeweights knowing that my primary muscles can lift far more (on a machine)?
Thanks for the thoughts.
you are doing less with free weights because your stabilizers/synergists were slacking off for a long time when you were doing all that muscular development for the target muscles on the machines
so what you have to do is work back up with free weights to the same weight you were using on the machine
In my case, it was actually not working at all for years, but same difference.
Thanks for your help. So, basically, I should just keep doing what I’m doing with the freeweights?!?!
In my case, it was actually not working at all for years, but same difference.
Thanks for your help. So, basically, I should just keep doing what I’m doing with the freeweights?!?!
You might THINK you can lift a ton more on a machine, but you have to take a closer look. I can lat pull the entire stack on the machine at the firehouse across the runway from where I work. 250lbs for 3x30 reps @ 188lbs body weight. Impressive, no? No.
The reason is that its on a pulley system that cuts the weight in half. Most shoulder press machines work on a lever action that cuts down on the applied force as well.
[quote]miksnake wrote:
In my case, it was actually not working at all for years, but same difference.
Thanks for your help. So, basically, I should just keep doing what I’m doing with the freeweights?!?![/quote]
Yes - just keep lifting free weights with good form and keep pushing yourself.
what would you do if there were no numbers on the weights ?
Why, swivel, I guess you’d just have to lift the shit and always try to get ‘one more plate’!
Wait, isn’t that how we do it anyway?
free weights are really better because you can move the weight however u want… machines are designed for joe-average and a few variations. You cant account for all heights, widths, bone length ratios, etc on a machine.
Of course free weights also allows u to get far from proper form whereas a machine will generally put u at correct form, but not perfect-for-you form.
So if yer a total beginner i’d say machines… then go to free weights ASAP.
[quote]beeph wrote:
Of course free weights also allows u to get far from proper form whereas a machine will generally put u at correct form, but not perfect-for-you form.
So if yer a total beginner i’d say machines… then go to free weights ASAP.
[/quote]
I disagree, I would start a total beginner with very light free weights, 5x5, 3-4 times a week, for 2-4 weeks, with a focus on form. If you start out on machines and then jump to free weights, you won’t have learned to include the secondary muscle groups in the lift, since the machine has been taking care of stability for you. Then you end up having to spend some time re-learning the form anyways.
No, you’re not getting a sufficient workout sitting on a shoulder press machine. Machines are for girls and fat guys who aren’t in shape.
Man up, grab a pair of dumbbells, stand up and press them over your head like a good soldier. Make sure to check your ego at the door, or at the shoulder press machine.
After you’ve accomplished this lift, get to know a few other friends like the Squat, Deadlift, and Barbell Bench Press.
ninjaboy’s right. Start with free weights and cables. You need to learn perfect form asap, and machines let you cheat without coming out of the groove.
[quote]beeph wrote:
free weights are really better because you can move the weight however u want… machines are designed for joe-average and a few variations. You cant account for all heights, widths, bone length ratios, etc on a machine.
Of course free weights also allows u to get far from proper form whereas a machine will generally put u at correct form, but not perfect-for-you form.
So if yer a total beginner i’d say machines… then go to free weights ASAP.
[/quote]
I think your slightly confused…
Machines were originally made for people who needed to isolate a body part… most beginners don’t need isolation work. they need total body workouts…
unless you really have a reason to be isolating a muscle group, machines are cheating you out of your time and a better workout…
The real weight you’re putting up on a machine is hard to determine. I was putting up a certain weight on the overhead press on a bodymaster machine and then I’d try the Cybex machine right next to it and I could put up about half the weight that I put on the Bodymaster.
That’s when I started paying close attention to the design. The Bodymaster had a cam/pulley system that increased the leverage and made it easy, the Cybex had a direct pulley system that had a simple connection to the weights which made it much harder.
I started to think about the math I’d have to use to calculate the leverage differences involved and then I thought “Screw it, I’ll just do this with dumbells.”
It’s so much simpler now…