XCelticX,
You apparently like to argue, don’t you? The ONLY reason you started this thread is to engage in arguments, didn’t you? You’re not trying to seek out any information. Neither is Pookie. So what is the point of this thread? Nothing.
this is so sad. you guys who think there is no God really bum me out. how do you explain the human body, or creation in general?
i am a bible believing, born again christian and i just had to reply to this subject.
there is a verse in the bible that says “for the things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen being understood by the things which are made…so that they are without excuse.” meaning look around…duh! someone had to put this all here. someone created us.
the main reason im writing this is because i was like you guys once. i used to love to debate this stuff “how’d we get here? where am i going when i die, if anywhere? why am i here?” then, by the grace of God, all my questions where answered one day.
the scary thing is, is that the bible says that if someone wants to believe a LIE, then God will ALLOW them to believe that lie. when i first read that i was freaked out. that means that if you want to believe that there is no God, then God will allow you to look around and miss him in everything. but if someone wants the truth, then God will give it to him.
it also strikes me funny that all these science scholars try to disprove the bible when the bible says that we are saved by faith. in the bible, God also used “unlearned and ignorant” men. but at least those “dumb” men weren’t too dumb to miss the truth.
you guys can all say “there is no God”, but like it or not, there is. it’s kind of like being at the ocean with your arms crossed saying “i don’t believe in tidlewaves” when there is one heading right for your head. whether you believe it or not, it’s coming.
im sure people will have opinions about what i wrote, but like i said, if you want to believe a lie, God will let you. but if you want the truth, it’s all around you.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I have done that. Others have done that. Please see my Forest Gump reference. I have failed at nothing. I have clearly stated my positions. You, on the other hand, expect people to “know what you are talking about”.[/quote]
Others have, to one degree or another, you have not.
Look its simple: You give me an example(s) of a statement I made, and then you refute it. I won’t mention it anymore to you if you can successfully do that.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Dear XCelticX,
baby steps[/quote]
I had a bad morning =\
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
“So now you can speak for most people? I know QUITE A FEW that would disagree.”
Very well, and who are these people that haven’t reconciled their faith with the modern state of science?
[/quote]
I meant I know quite a few who don’t think you speak for them, I admit that was a vague way of stating it.
The only thing you CAN do is pick a pole or be closer to the middle.
I misread your post to say you didn’t think the evidence proved anything, therefore it didn’t matter.
The fossil record of primates shows a gradual progression from our less evolved state to the one we have now. I think that more or less proves something, even if its only that those creatures existed. That in itself calls into question the validity of religion and therefore Christianity.
You’re right, but maybe I’m trying to convince those of you who find it easy to follow what has nothing backing it up to question WHY you believe that, and why(in my opinion) you shouldn’t.
My wording was harsh, I wasn’t having the best of days. I realize Christians don’t think of it that way, that’s just how I see it for some or most of them.
If ‘God’ were to show himself, he would have alot of people(including me) who without an more shadow of doubt believed in him. He would have the WORLD worshiping him and loving him. If he loves us so much, enough to die on a cross for us, why the foreplay? Why test our character in the first place, as he apparently knows us before we are even born?
As far as I can tell all of the scientific evidence points to a natural evolution from basic life forms. That is not a part of any religion on Earth. It is in no ancient scriptures. If that is the way ALL of life on Earth came to be(as backed by evidence) why wouldn’t God let us know, or even hint at this amazing process?
[quote]
“‘predicated on a false bill of goods’ LOL. I like that, got anymore sentences that make you sound smart but don’t mean anything slightly relevant?”
Tons of them, but I’ll try and keep this manageable so you can follow.[/quote]
Pardon my blatent agrivation.
I assure you I’m following just fine
[quote]randman wrote:
XCelticX,
You apparently like to argue, don’t you? The ONLY reason you started this thread is to engage in arguments, didn’t you? You’re not trying to seek out any information. Neither is Pookie. So what is the point of this thread? Nothing. [/quote]
I bet you thought you had my psychology all figured out didn’t you.
You were only right about one thing: I like to argue.
[quote]XCelticX wrote:
I didn’t say Noah’s Ark wasn’t in any other cultures, and if I had, I would be correct anyway. Other cultures have SIMILAR stories, not the same.
[/quote]
If they retell what they believe to be the same event it could easily get lost in translation if those translating it did not care to preserve the message. So the stories have a striking resemblance, but that doesn’t count as being the same just maybe altered? the resemblance between some of these stories is so striking that either it is the same story from different cultures or one of them is serioudly plagerized the other.
[quote]
Tell me an account outside of the Bible for Christ rising from the dead. That is from what much of modern Christianity is founded on, isn’t it? You’d think someone besides those who wrote the Bible would’ve noticed and said something…
I don’t care if other cultures/religions have stories that might be considered similar. If what is in the Bible is the truth, it should be concrete in all of those cultures should it not?[/quote]
you did not site Christ rising from the dead in your Opening post. You only said as I quoted you earlier the stories do not appear anywhere else.
Not everything would be preserved. Many cultures libraries were destroyed. What remaining evidence do you want?
I would think it would be somewhat impressive that none of the Jewish opposing views of the resurrection differ from the Bible. They were claiming the Body was stolen.
It is easy to determine the Disciples would never have had the courage to steal the body, and had that developed that courage I doubt they would of died for that lie.
I have a feeling you are already decided, and there is no changing your mind.
[quote]XCelticX wrote:
haney wrote:
Didn’t you say there is no way that water could cover the face of the earth even if the polar ice caps melted? I fail to see how that is beside the point then. I Have yet to say the flood existed in this thread. I am just pointing out where you might want to restate some of your previous points
Marine fossils being on top of mount everest DOES NOT proved that water covered the face of the Earth, so it IS beside the point.[/quote]
I never said it proved water covered the earth.
I only tried to show you that your statement that it could not happen even if the polar ice caps melted is a serious overstatement.
Marine fossils on Everest show that it is possible for water to have covered the Earth.
[quote]XCelticX wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I have done that. Others have done that. Please see my Forest Gump reference. I have failed at nothing. I have clearly stated my positions. You, on the other hand, expect people to “know what you are talking about”.
Others have, to one degree or another, you have not.
Look its simple: You give me an example(s) of a statement I made, and then you refute it. I won’t mention it anymore to you if you can successfully do that.[/quote]
I have refuted your statement about their being stories from the Bible being in other cultures, and all you have said is " I am still right in what I said".
Lets see if you are a man of your word.
Hi Haney - check your Geology (again) - marine fossils on Everest shows only that Everest was once a seabed.
Throw the following 3 words into google:
tectonics, everest, tethys.
All;
I think the article I posted on page one sums it all up - all our individual experiences are governed by chemicals reacting in the brain (and it seems genetics plays a part in the way they react in the brain).
[quote]ShaunW wrote:
Hi Haney - check your Geology (again) - marine fossils on Everest shows only that Everest was once a seabed.
Throw the following 3 words into google:
tectonics, everest, tethys.
All;
I think the article I posted on page one sums it all up - all our individual experiences are governed by chemicals reacting in the brain (and it seems genetics plays a part in the way they react in the brain).
[/quote]
So life’s just a big acid trip, then? I guess the hippies were right after all.
[quote]sandyj wrote:
this is so sad. you guys who think there is no God really bum me out. how do you explain the human body, or creation in general?
i am a bible believing, born again christian and i just had to reply to this subject.
there is a verse in the bible that says “for the things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen being understood by the things which are made…so that they are without excuse.” meaning look around…duh! someone had to put this all here. someone created us.
the main reason im writing this is because i was like you guys once. i used to love to debate this stuff “how’d we get here? where am i going when i die, if anywhere? why am i here?” then, by the grace of God, all my questions where answered one day.
the scary thing is, is that the bible says that if someone wants to believe a LIE, then God will ALLOW them to believe that lie. when i first read that i was freaked out. that means that if you want to believe that there is no God, then God will allow you to look around and miss him in everything. but if someone wants the truth, then God will give it to him.
it also strikes me funny that all these science scholars try to disprove the bible when the bible says that we are saved by faith. in the bible, God also used “unlearned and ignorant” men. but at least those “dumb” men weren’t too dumb to miss the truth.
you guys can all say “there is no God”, but like it or not, there is. it’s kind of like being at the ocean with your arms crossed saying “i don’t believe in tidlewaves” when there is one heading right for your head. whether you believe it or not, it’s coming.
im sure people will have opinions about what i wrote, but like i said, if you want to believe a lie, God will let you. but if you want the truth, it’s all around you.
[/quote]
I cant believe it, a creationist has popped up.
Was god particularly fond of beetles then. there are more species of beetle than any other.
Go and read a bloody book and get with it.
The bible, with its comment about god allowing people to believe a lie crap is just the sweetest get out, dont you think.
And anyhow, if heaven was such a fantastic place why doesn’t everyone just do the population a favour and end it all to get there?
You sir, are the one beliving a lie.
It amuses me that god said “let there be light”…if that was true, as you say it is, he said it out loud. like there was anyone to hear him???
And he made the earth and the universe before this…in the dark!. me, i would have turned the light on frst, but then i am not god.
[quote]ShaunW wrote:
Hi Haney - check your Geology (again) - marine fossils on Everest shows only that Everest was once a seabed.
Throw the following 3 words into google:
tectonics, everest, tethys.
All;
I think the article I posted on page one sums it all up - all our individual experiences are governed by chemicals reacting in the brain (and it seems genetics plays a part in the way they react in the brain).
[/quote]
First, he never said it didn’t show that, and scientifically his statement is correct, the fossils show that water could have completely covered land at some point. I think you are making assumptions about the intent at least in this instance.
Second, quantum physics actually dilineates between sentient brains and non-sentient form of life in their ability to create irreversibility and collapse the wave function of a system. If Schrodinger (in theory) had to look at the cat for it to be 100% alive or dead, his brain was fundamentally different from the cats because the cats brain could not collaps the wave function of its own system. (Or maybe it could have). In either case quantum physics draws a real line somewhere.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
So life’s just a big acid trip, then? I guess the hippies were right after all.
[/quote]
Maybe its God’s acid trip and if he would just come off of it we could all go to home.
[quote]sandyj wrote:
this is so sad. you guys who think there is no God really bum me out.[/quote]
Why? I’m quite happy. And you’re beliefs don’t bum me out; except when they get involved with politics or law and then they’re forced one me, or affect our lives in some way. I also find sadness in the fact that some people will tolerate pain, suffering and injustice because they’re hoping for those situations to be corrected in their afterlife. What if they’re isn’t one?
Evolution? You might’ve heard of it…
As for creation, there’s no certain explanation for now… That doesn’t mean that we have to invent some supernatural entity to explain it away.
How do you explain God’s creation?
If you say the universe needs a “creator” because all things need a source; why is God exempt from that same rule?
I know the classic answer of “God is outside/above/etc. the universe and is not bound by its laws.” As always, the easy way out.
Maybe the universe has always existed (Big Bang/Big Crunch cycle, although pretty unlikely from what we currently know…) Stephen Hawking even has (had?) a “Pea Instanton” theory allowing the spontaneous creation of the universe from nothingness. It’s probably wrong; but until we figure it out, why invent explanations (ie. God) that raise more questions than they answer.
Or here’s another way to look at it:
Primitive man understood little of his world. The wind, the rain, the sun, etc. All those natural phenomenas were mysterious, he couldn’t explain how these things worked. So, he had “gods” for each of them. A Sun God, a god of the wind, a sea god, etc.
As knowledge progressed, the “gods” obviously became useless, since man knew why there was wind, why the sun came up everyday and so on. The “sphere” of the supernatural shrunk.
Nowadays, we can explain an extremely wide range of what goes on around us. Stuff remaining is mostly “the big questions”… How did the universe begin? Does it have/need a cause? How rare/common is life in that universe? Can it begin by itself, or does it also need a cause? So for those things we still don’t know or understand, we’ve got a God. What are the chances he’ll join Appolo, Odin, Ahura-Mazda, et al. once we figure out the answers?
Quoting from the Bible to support the existence of God is circular reasoning. If God does not exist, then the Bible is just a book of stories. If he does exists, one has to wonder how is message can be so murky as to cause such a proliferation of different religions, all claiming to hold the “One Truth”. I mean, what if the Koran is right and Allah is very angry that we make statues and take pictures? I mean, the Archangel Gabriel himself appeared to Muhammad to inform him that we had that whole Christ thing all wrong… Can we really dismiss such a high-ranking offical from Heaven?
As for your “duh!” comment about creation… If all things require Creation, then who created God? And who created God’s creator? And who created… ad infinitum. If you can believe in a God who requires no creation, then what’s so hard about a universe who requires no creator?
- Evolution. 2) Nowhere, you’re dead. 3) You’re here because your parents reproduced. See? Today is your lucky day.
Well, considering the often debated “free will” issue, he wouldn’t have much choice in the matter.
Most “science scholars” aren’t trying to disprove the Bible. One would hope they’re trying to advance science. Science should ignore the Bible and simply do it’s stuff. It’s the Bible thumpers that generally try to intervene to stop science when science disagrees with their beloved story book. Gallileo, Darwin, preventing the teaching of evolution in school, or forcing the teaching of “creation” or intelligent design along side… abortion, birth control, gay marriage, etc.
[quote]in the bible, God also used “unlearned and ignorant” men. but at least those “dumb” men weren’t too dumb to miss the truth.
you guys can all say “there is no God”, but like it or not, there is.[/quote]
Well, if you’ll simply produce your irrefutable proof, we can all stop arguing about it. We can also collapse all of the world’s 3000 or so religion into the “right” one, since we’ll know which God is the correct one.
As it is, I can simply say “all you believers can pray to God and be convinced of his existence, but sorry, there ain’t one.”
Tsk, tsk. At the ocean, you can test for tidal waves and adjust your knowledge accordingly.
I could say: I don’t believe anything can fly. But once I saw a bird or a plane, I’d have to revise my position.
If I ever see/meet/feel God, I’ll do just that.
You think?
[quote] but like i said, if you want to believe a lie, God will let you. but if you want the truth, it’s all around you.
[/quote]
Well, we think you’re the ones believing a lie, and that we accept the objective truth. So…
[quote]rainjack wrote:
ShaunW wrote:
…all our individual experiences are governed by chemicals reacting in the brain
So life’s just a big acid trip, then? I guess the hippies were right after all.
[/quote]
The opposing view being that the body is simply a receptacle for the soul, which is the actual “you”?
If that it so, then how do we explain that people can have altered personalities when drunk, drugged, on medication or after cerebral accidents?
I know a few persons who have been prescribed antidepressors. One one them is nothing like her previous self. Who’s the “true” her? The miserable old her, or the new always chirpy her?
Why do some people with head injuries change so much? Is the hit to head so severe, that somehow they switch soul or something?
Other fun questions with the soul: When we die and our soul live on, is it our young and vigorous “us” that continues, or our old, sick, alzeihmer ridden “us”?
When a 2 year old toddler is killed, does he get eternal life as a 2 year old? Is his soul “recycled”? Is there “soul” childcare in heaven? Is he furnished with with all the experiences he never had so that he can interact adultly with the other souls?
pookie.
couldn’t agree more.
Just more proof that you are not just an atheist, but a bigoted one at that.
You questions serve no purpose other than to make those that agree with you chuckle. You have that right and no one is trying to take that away from you. Just be honest in your smugness.
You think we’re all trailer-dwelling hayseeds that are amazed everytime someone pulls out one of them there fire makers.
Your questions are those of an elitist - condescending. I take exception to that. You are not nearly as smart and witty as you fashion yourself to be. But you probably didn’t need a hayseed to tell you that.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Just more proof that you are not just an atheist, but a bigoted one at that.
You questions serve no purpose other than to make those that agree with you chuckle. You have that right and no one is trying to take that away from you. Just be honest in your smugness.
You think were all trailer-dwelling hayseeds that are amazed everytime someone pulls out one of them there fire makers.
Your questions are those of an elitist - condescending. I take exception to that. You are not nearly as smart and witty as you fashion yourself to be. But you probably didn’t need a hayseed to tell you that.
[/quote]
And what, sir, is the problem with being elitest? and for that matter, condecending.
I dont believe that this was aimed at my good self, but we, surely those who are of T are just that. an elite, or we would be mucking in with the fat slobs and their KFC.
If ‘God’ were to show himself, he would have alot of people(including me) who without an more shadow of doubt believed in him. He would have the WORLD worshiping him and loving him. If he loves us so much, enough to die on a cross for us, why the foreplay? Why test our character in the first place, as he apparently knows us before we are even born?
God has shown himself to you and all of mankind, we rejected him and killed him.