[quote]martyh wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
martyh wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
martyh wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
If you are interested in adding size, then why are you doing maximal effort deadlifting, which by definition is above 90% of your 1rm. Maximal doubles, triples, and singles are not going to be the most conducive to size gains as the fatigue is too great and the volume too low.
I do full ROM deadlifts and my back is just fine. Some people prefer rack pulls and their backs are just fine. It’s up to you, just do them and get strong as fuck on them.
I’d have to disagree with the first point. I think if there is one exercise that should be done as heavy as possible, it’s the deadlift, imo. That being said, I might bump the reps slightly, at a certain point. But if you’re doing 3 sets of 6 with 300lbs, I believe your time would be better spent doing doubles and triples with 50+lbs added to the bar.
You said anything about three sets of 6?
A set to (near) failure at 6-8 reps is going to do a lot more for growth than hitting a max single every week.
I was using that as an example. I agree with your statement, but if your 6-8 reps are coming below the 400lb range, I think it would be smarter to focus on moving heavier weight. Once you can move some weight, bump the reps.
Why not just work up from 200(whatever)x6-8 to 400x6-8 to 600…
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It’s not hard to get your deadlift over 400 lbs for 6-8 reps, you don’t need to constantly do very low reps to get there… If you wanted to get your deadlift up big time compared to your bodyweight, ok, low reps are going to help you more in that regard as higher rep strength increases depend much more on muscle-mass increases and thus added bodyweight…
Just from a 1RM you can’t tell whether the man has a big back or not.
Leverages, technique, the nervous system… All play much bigger roles in that case than muscle-mass. Of course an 800 lb deadlift is not possibly due to leverages and technique alone and actually requires a substantial amount of supporting mass. But a 500 lb 1RM deadlit doesn’t say shit about a guy’s back.
Bingo. My deadlift has increased a great deal more due to pulling submaximal weights for reps rather than trying to increase my max by maxing out all of the time.
The goal of the OP is to increase size. If you’re telling me your deadlift strength has gone up by using lighter weights vs. heavier weights, that could be your muscle fiber makeup, I still have a hard time believing your deadlift (not size) got better by going lighter. By and large one gets stronger by lifting heavier. That being said, this is a bodybuilding forum, and the goal is to get bigger. There is a point where you have to focus on size and more reps (6-8 range or whatever), but in my view the quickest way to get bigger initially is by getting yourself stronger[/quote] The body does not need a huge back to deadlift 500 lbs once. The same way that you do not need huge pecs, tris or shoulders to bench 405 a single time. If you get to those numbers via just doing a few very low-rep sets, you are not going to look like a bodybuilder unless you are a fast-twitch monster.[quote]. I know I wouldn’t be seeing the results I’ve seen with DC training if I were benching 200 for reps and deadlifting 250. I don’t disagree that more reps on deads is a must[/quote] I don’t say it’s a must, but by and large I see people get far more size out of lifting with moderate to high reps. (of course I’m a low volume guy, keep that in mind, that’s a lot different from people doing a ton of sets at the same rep range)
Also, I’d say that especially at the beginning that can help you get strong much faster than trying to grind your way up with max singles every session. Maxing out all the time on the same exercise only gets you so strong, and a beginner isn’t exactly someone whom I’d trust in the technique department either… [quote]
[/quote], I just don’t think it’s the best way to start.
Huh? Are you guys incapable of getting stronger in the 6-8 rep range?
What about every single guy doing Wendler 5/3/1? You do no max singles or anything like that there, it’s all submaximal work and you end up repping out on your last set… On wave 3 that’s usually 4-9 reps or so.
I can see how it would be difficult to get stronger doing 4-8 work sets at 10-12 reps or so.
But 1-2 sets at 8-12 or 6-8 work perfectly fine.
Another example, look at Hanley’s results from DC training (or anyone who has done DC for real).
Deadlifting there/rackpulling etc is all done with a 6-8 rep set followed by another 9-12 rep set… Seems to have worked for Justin Harris and co, you can pretty much put on 10-20 lbs onto both sets every 2 weeks that way until you switch the exercise out.
Now, I know that DC is not for beginners. I keep saying that after all, so no need to remind me. That has less to do with whether the rep ranges used are any good for beginners though than with many other factors.
Many beginners can go from rack pulling 200 lbs for 6-8 to 450 for the same number within a few months if they do stuff right. Deadlifting is more tricky as it involves more potential weak areas or at least involves them to a greater degree, but it can still be done and it’s not all that uncommon of an occurance with serious trainees.
Give me a break people, who here honestly thinks that you must always do very low reps in order to get stronger? That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
Just because you can’t do 6-8 reps with a weight you can only do once doesn’t mean you can’t put more weight on the bar next time you train = lifting heavier = getting stronger.
Unless you want to stay at a relatively low weight-class while getting very strong, I firmly believe that moderate reps are a much faster way to decent size and strength than trying to just max out whenever you touch a weight…