Yozza I have been training for bit over 2 years and wanna hop on a cycle to add muscle mass and strength. I was thinking of running test e at 400mg/week and NPP at 200mg/week. Any thoughts on this cycle and what I should run alongside these compounds for safety purposes?
Frankly, this is the type of bullshit that gives steroids a bad name.
Unless you’ve had an amazing coach, you probably don’t understand how to:
- train properly
- eat properly
- recover properly
and going on cycle without knowing these things is both a waste of AAS and an unnecessary health risk. You’ve still got a lot of natty gains left on the table before it’s time to consider steroids.
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What kind of strength foundation have you achieved at this point? Plus it would be good to know your age, weight, approximate %bodyfat, and pic if you have one you care to post.
Typically, most people don’t have the genetics or the training discipline and strategy to have developed physically where AAS might be the next step.
What is your 5 or 10 rep max squat?
What is your 5 or 10 rep max bench press (overhead press)?
How many pull-ups or chin-ups can you do?
Not to digress from the topic but am interested in the general view of this forum’s members as to what number of chin-up reps would be considered a decent amount for someone looking to hop on AAS? Have you noticed a large increase in reps after a certain cycle?
For the sake of clarity let’s make this person male, 6’0 200lb.
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TBH since I started getting bigger, pull ups went south and quickly. Used to do 22-23 while weighing ~185 but now at 225 I feel like my shoulders are tearing out their sockets… Can still knock out like 10 before form goes to shit. Still, not great.
I’d imagine if someone isn’t able to do 10 pull ups that they probably aren’t ready for AAS, but I find that to be an odd metric. Personally, I’d prefer to go by Bench, Squat, Deadlift at 1.5xBW, 2xBW, 2.5xBW, respectively.
On TRT at 180mg/wk , not blasting or cycling
EDIT: I mistakenly put 3xBW for deadlifts - meant to say 2.5xBW. Have edited to correct.
I want to ask how many people on this forum can DL 2.5 times their Body weight. For example, how many people who weigh 200 pounds can DL 500 pounds. Or if they weigh 220 pounds to do DL 550. For the Squat the question is similar, for the BP the same. I am aware that these numbers are preached everywhere, but how many people actually achieve them.
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Pull-ups and chin-ups are a metric I like to know before recommending AAS use, but it has its compromises. For someone who has been lifting weights for 5 or more years I don’t consider it essential.
Pull-ups are biased against those not in good physical shape, those who have gained extra body fat, those who are older, and those with injuries.
The main trigger for me was the OP having lifted weights only 2 years. If he is young he should easily be able to do 10 pull-ups. A 20 year old man who cannot do 10 pull-ups is too out of shape or with bad genetics where AAS would not be a good risk/benefit decision.
If the OP is 30 years old, I wouldn’t expect a person with only 2 of his last 10 years was dedicated to good conditioning to be able to do many pull-ups.
I might be biased from my own experience. I was in excellent shape at 19 years old and did some gymnastics where I could easily do 20 pull-ups and 20 dips before I ever lifted a weight. At that time I was 6’ tall and 165lbs.
piece of cake
I don’t know. I think many certainly can though, especially the people who train for strength. Going up to 3X, is going to eliminate a lot though. IMO, 2X bench, 2.5X squat and 3X dead are impressive lifts. Hardly anyone can do those without being pretty dedicated to lifting. They aren’t lifts that will make you a top powerlifter, but you can train anywhere without being embarrassed. Most who do these lifts are also lean.
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This is exactly why I consider this to be qualifying material for AAS use. If you haven’t dedicated enough time/effort to achieve these numbers, then either your training is subpar (disqualifier) or your dedication is subpar (also disqualifier). If you’re going to take risks like AAS use for this sport, it makes no sense to do so if you can’t train properly or arent wholly dedicated to it.
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I think my listed numbers are 0.5 higher than yours. Just an FYI.
I’d say a very small percent of AAS users benched 2X body weight before going on. I think very few veteran AAS users are doing it TBH. I haven’t. I am close at like 1.9X for bench. 2.92X for deadlift, and squat, let’s not talk about squatting haha.
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Feck, I’m missing shit a lot today. Must need more sleep lol.
completely agree that those numbers are very respectable lifts. I’m not there for any of them, but I’ve got the .5BW lower lol. Still, I think these are probably the best as far as strength metrics - but would add OHP and BB Row if I were to pick a top 5 for strength metrics.
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I agree. 1X BW OHP is pretty solid if done strict. BB rows I have trouble making a strength standard, because it is an easy lift to cheat. For overall fitness, a weighted pull up or chin up is pretty good, but it would not be a good metric for strongman or heavy weight powerlifters. I might be able to do more than the top strongman competitors, and I am not nearly as good of a lifter.
Strength, especially relative strength is not something AAS helps with as much as it will with overall mass. You will likely lift more, but at a higher body weight.
Doing a 2X BW bench with AAS isn’t that much easier than without AAS. If you use AAS to be lean and hold muscle, that is probably a good approach if hitting multiples of BW is the goal.
For apples-to-apples comparison, IMO the use of the Schwartz Formula (or whatever is currently used in powerlifting) which was used to determine the Best Lifter of the meet, is a more accurate strength metric than “x times body weight.”
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Agree. I think Wilks is the current for most federations? Could be wrong on that. Wilks does have some goofy results though since it is based on real world lifting data. There aren’t a lot of really heavy good lifters, so at a certain point, the same lift gets more points if you weigh more. That isn’t until approaching 400 lbs body weight, but it is still goofy.
Doing multiples of BW isn’t the same difficulty for everyone. A 5’ tall lifter likely will have a lot easier time than one that is 6’5".
IMO the formula used needs to be related to elite powerlifters throughout the weight range.
As to height, I don’t find it a factor. It is just another genetic component of the lifter, as is muscle attachments for leverage. I would bet you have seen the skinny guy who pushes much more weight than you thought he could. And you have significant control of the body weight you wish to compete.
If we exclude the higher weight classes, and look at the lifters that are actually good at the sport, weight classes are effectively height classes.
There aren’t good 181 lifters that are over 6’. There aren’t good 242 lifters that are under 5’5". It seems the competitive lifters in a weight class are usually only a couple of inches difference among the group. Some exceptions exist, but this is pretty accurate IMO.
I have see all kinds. One of the best 123lb lifters when I was competing was about 5’ 10” tall.
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@RT_Nomad @mnben87 We kinda got into the weeds here (I’m guilty too). I think we should get back on track for helping the OP make smart decisions about his first cycle.
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But just think of all the bonus information the OP got. FREE of charge.
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