We wait for more information about the OP…
This is what happens when people get in a closed room. The OP asks a question, stays a little while and then leaves the room. We are left alone… and we discuss things we are interested in debating. Sounds like reality at work. Does anyone know when the OP will return to the room?
2 Likes
I would recommend not doing such a pussy cycle for your first cycle.
The first cycle if done right should be your biggest gains.
Go big or go home.
I agree. But the first cycle doesn’t need to be big and yet be your greatest gains. The most important factor of the first cycle is an effective training strategy. A little AAS will respond to effective training much better than a large quantity of AAS to poor training.
When gains become more difficult, greater doses are appropriate and even be required.
Stay smart and be in for the long haul.
1 Like
Just do test only. If it sucks you have an easy out, and a clear villian. And if you can’t grow on just that, then you don’t know what you’re doing in the gym or kitchen anyway
1 Like
I would also like to know how many chin-ups is considered acceptable for someone to consider running AAS
From the top of my head - 14! That’s a nice round arbitrary number that makes you as strong as you’re average marine; and who doesn’t want to be as strong as those guys?!
Also, Eddie Hall can barely only do 6 semi-kipping pullups, so any number above that warrants your use of PEDs since you, a mere natty, are already stronger than Eddie. Imagine how much stronger you’ll be on steroids!
1 Like
I’m more impressed that the land-whale can actually do pull-ups at all tbh. Probably took a literal boatload of AAS to get him there
But more importantly, I hear that Thor Bjornsson is going to have a pull-up competition with Eddie after he recently beat Eddie’s pull-up record in his garage.
1 Like
The only thing more interesting than that would be to watch them race uphill riding Vespa scooters.
1 Like
Yeah that sounds about right lol.
I know I’m in the minority on this but I just don’t get using strength metrics as a bar for AAS use. Like benching 205 lbs means no AAS, but 225 means yes AAS. I’m not sure any BBer really cares about what their lifts are, they are going for the look. IDK, I get you need to have experience in the gym, but “experience” is different based on your goals
1 Like
I take a hardline on this subject. I would say not many agree with me. IMO, if you don’t see competition in the not to distant future, I cannot justify the risk of taking what might become high doses of AAS. Gains are highly addictive.
The strength test gives me an idea of the person’s genetic potential. If a person doesn’t have the genetic potential to compete, how do I justify that person take the health risk.
Sure, no one needs my approval to take AAS. But don’t expect me to encourage a person that I don’t feel they have the genetics to take AAS. Let them prove me wrong.
All that said, TRT that is engaged in to improve health, I fully support.
1 Like
Can I ask how many bodyweight pull-ups you can do?
When in my life?
At 73 and bad elbows, I wouldn’t even attempt one.
At 19 and 165lbs and never lifted a weight, I could easily do 20 pull-ups. I stopped at 20 reps. I could have done more.
By the time I was 30, my brachialis was so sore that I quit doing pull-ups. I could have done chin-ups, but didn’t, at that time, believe it was a good exercise. I was wrong, but didn’t know it.
1 Like
This is quite impressive honestly. It takes most (even Marines) a lot of time training to hit 20 pull ups.
But you were still on AAS at this time no? As far as “steroid pre-qualifiers” I personally think that max number pull-ups is an odd metric - which is heavily subjective to the bodyweight of the person.
Yes I had been using steroids for about 8 years.
Of course, a person’s bodyweight is a major variable to the number of pull-ups they can do. For bodybuilding having a relatively low % body fat naturally is a major hurdle already in control, and more ideal for getting results from AAS (if genetically strong or well built before lifting weights.) I feel I can look at a guy in the gym and fairly accurately guess whether bodybuilding competition is a possibility in their future. On a forum, I must rely more on strength metrics.
For powerlifting, especially the heavier weight classes, pull-ups would not be a very helpful metric.
2 Likes
IDK, if a super heavy is busting out 20 pull ups, I bet they got some potential.
1 Like
This is tricky, as i have never been able to do much of these. Up until the age of 27 i had never done a single one of the variations.
Then i trained for it a bit and started to be able to struggle through some 7-8 with a neutral grip, some 6-8 in palms facing me, and maybe 1-2 wide grip palms facing away.
Anyways, these always seemed to fuck up my elbows, cuz my weight has been way over 240lbs for last 2 years, now its at 255, and just hanging there kind of hurts my elbows which are fucked up as it is(i can do only 1 tricep exercise without pain, for example).
Also, they do take a way a lot of recovery. For some weird reason, pulling movements always felt like doing same rep deadlifts for me.
Since at 255 my back is wide enough as it is, i just dont do ANYTHING directly for my back, except for some pronated laterals and Y laterals, for rear delts and bench stability and shoulder health.
So basically i was on steroids way before i did any type of vertical pull, and i still didnt do any years after being on steroids.
The “times bodyweight” shit is always cool for short and light people… When you compare some 80kg woman powerlifter with Eddie Hall, if we calculate shit like that, she would be even twice as strong as Eddie.
2,5 times the bodyweight is the world record 501kg deadlift by Hafthor. I will let this one just sit here and settle in for many of the fans of “times bodyweight” shit.
2 Likes
I guess i would agree with this.
Sure, “test only” is a good start because you would know what causes side effects if it does, but then again, how many people get side effects from 500mgs of test.
Then, the person anyways will start doing deca or something more, and the fact he did test, did nothing to prepare him for anything that can go wrong with deca or some other drug.
I definetly wouldnt do something over a gram, but if i would know what i know, and i could turn back 15 years, i dont think i would do just test for my first cycle at 17-18…
400 test might even be ok. I dont get the 200mgs of deca part tho. Id rather add those 200mgs to the test dosage then, instead of use something in such low dose it might not do shit.
Then again id like to see test always higher than deca, and if we up the deca on this one, the test has to go up and then the total dosage becomes a bit more serious.
Also, i dont get why deca is ok for everyone and tren isnt. Tren is the best thing to take, and has same possible shit sides that deca does.
If one is serious enough to take two drugs for the first cycle, he will end up trenning anyway.
I actually believe that as far as size and strenght goes, test and tren are the only 2 drugs anyone would ever need. If you dont max your potential on these, you are fucked anyway.
If one would take 3 drugs, id say - test/tren/eq would be the best bang for the buck.
Everything else in my opinion is for contest prep/cosmetic effect or strenght/bloat.
1 Like
THE MAXIMUM FORCES EXERTED BY ANIMALS
Taller heavier people at a big disadvantage in sports where strength or power per unit lean body mass are critical (Crossfit, cycling, etc).
Correct.
An elephant kills you instantly if it gets hold of you. But you can beat an elephant in pull up contest. A flea makes us all look sad per unit of body mass.
Absolute vs relative strength per unit of body mass. Negative power law relationship.
3 Likes
I was always pissing guys off in fight gyms when i said that weight classes were made only so small guys can also participate.
In fighting, weight classes only exist so smaller guys wouldnt get killed, and being a champion in anything below heavyweight imo is somewhat of a “i can beat up all the small guys” 
4 Likes