First Dead Lift, Front Squats, in 10 Years

Training
1

Well, got some money today so I went and bought a 7’ bar w/ 1000 lb weight limit, and a few plates. I counted carrying them from the street to my snake building/weight room in the back yard as part of this work out…it kind of sapped me.

I almost got 315 deadlift up but my grip failed towards the top of the motion–I managed 215x7 reps which is pretty crappy (not even body weight) but after a decade lay off of dead lifting I’ll take it.

The front squats though…holy god. I used those in college, so it’s only been 5 years, and I can’t do them anymore. I don’t have a cage, just a bar and about 400 lbs of plates (mostly 25s and 10s, 2 each of 35s and 45s) and trying to clean it into position didn’t work worth a damn-I almost knocked myself over and it felt like I was wrenching my elbow apart. I guess it’s lunges and split squats until I scrape up the cash to buy a power cage (on a related note, several snakes and firearms are for sell to finance this :wink: ).

I figure workout A is something like
Dead lift
DB Rows
Overhead press
barbell curls
lunges
pullovers

Light conditioning

Workout B
Step-ups (my bench is 22" high, figure that’s high enough)
DB bench press
incline curls
DB rows
Straight leg dead

light conditioning

Given that I don’t have a cage yet (give it 2-3 months) does that sound viable? I know squats would be better but, well, equipment limitations. Equipment I currently have: about 380 lbs of plates, a 7’ bar, and 2 of the funky dumbbell handles that hold Olympic plats (which can pinch like hell if they get your hand, as I found out today) and an incline to flat bench–I’d thought about a flat bench, but figured that the incline didn’t cost too much more and was rated to 550 lbs.

2

[quote]paulwhite959 wrote:
I figure workout A is something like
Dead lift
DB Rows
Overhead press
barbell curls
lunges
pullovers

Light conditioning

Workout B
Step-ups (my bench is 22" high, figure that’s high enough)
DB bench press
incline curls
DB rows
Straight leg dead

light conditioning[/quote]
That doesn’t look too bad, depending on the sets/reps for everything, but I’d still tweak it. For example:

  • Move any curls to the last exercise of the day since they’re working a small muscle group

  • Switch the DB row in the B Workout to a different back exercise

  • Add something for shoulders into the B Workout

-Direct triceps work, somewhere/anywhere?

Or consider using this No Rack template from Jim Wendler, keeping your conditioning right after each session:
http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/1400

That’s absolutely enough equipment to get going with a bit of planning, so there are no real excuses.

If you’re healthy enough for it (shoulders/elbows/wrists), I’d still work on improving your clean technique. “Good enough” form is fine (gets the bar from the ground or waist to shoulder-level without causing injury), but it’s a great, versatile exercise that has a bunch of applications that’s worth being familiar with.

3

If I’m doing bench and shoulder press, should I be doing direct tricep work? Adding some DB tricep extensions wouldn’t phase me at all, I just wasn’t sure if it was needed.

Workout A:
Dead lift
Overhead press
Cleans
DB Rows
lunges
pullovers
barbell curls

Workout B

Step-ups
DB bench press
Bent over row
Straight leg dead
Tricep extension
incline curls
one handed farmers walk (shoulders, abs?) I can just pace the length of the building back and forth 2x per hand.

Mostly I’m interested in getting stronger. I mean, I’m working on body comp too, but it’s secondary. I don’t give a damn if I ever see my abs, I just want to reduce the rather large beer gut I’ve got now and maybe shrink the man tits some.

I was thinking 3x5 on most of the core lifts, maybe slightly higher reps (3x8, or maybe 10) on the assistance lifts like curls and rows and straight leg deads. Cleans I’d like to keep very low rep; I’m worried about fatigue making my form go to total crap and me hurting myself. Maybe 3x3 or something?

4

Make the clean for front squats a priority. You’ll get better with time and you’ll be able to do a great leg exercise.

So the start of A could be:
Front squats
Cleans
And when the weight gets too heavy for cleans, switch to deadlifts.
(Then rows and so on.)

Your deadlift won’t suffer (maybe marginally) and your legs will thank you. With more muscle and strength.

5

You could always build a temporary rack? Google ‘timber squat rack’ for a few ideas, should suffice until the weights and/or cash increase :slight_smile:

(tried posting a link to a couple of DIY articles, but post was deleted by mods.)

6

[quote]paulwhite959 wrote:
Adding some DB tricep extensions wouldn’t phase me at all, I just wasn’t sure if it was needed.[/quote]
Needed? Do I need to drink my own urine? No, but I do it anyway because it’s sterile and I like the taste.

But um, yeah, really not much harm in a bit of direct triceps work as long as it’s properly programmed in relation to the rest of the routine.

[quote]Workout A:
Dead lift
Overhead press
Cleans
DB Rows
lunges
pullovers
barbell curls

Workout B
Step-ups
DB bench press
Bent over row
Straight leg dead
Tricep extension
incline curls
one handed farmers walk (shoulders, abs?) I can just pace the length of the building back and forth 2x per hand.[/quote]
Meh. Okay, if you want to design your own plan rather than working off one already designed by a coach, I’d do it like this:

Workout A
A) Clean 4x1-3
B) Deadlift 4x4-6
C1) Lunge 4x6-10
C2) Pullover 4x10-12
D1) 2 dumbbell row 3x8-10
D2) Overhead press 3x6-10
E) Barbell curl 3x8-10

Random conditioning exercise 10-20 minutes

Workout B
A) Step-up 4x6-8
B) Stiff leg deadlift 3x8-10
C) Low incline (or flat) dumbbell press 5x6-8
D) Bent over row 4x6-8
E1) Triceps extension 3x8-10
E2) Incline curl 3x 10-12

Random conditioning exercise 10-20 minutes

For some ideas on the conditioning part, check out:

^ Since you mentioned farmer’s walks, definitely try “The Eagle” mentioned here, using dumbbells. That’ll also add in some solid leg work.

Your nutrition will play a big role in this.

Lower volume training for strength works better if the exercise frequency is higher - if you’re hitting the same exercise more often during the week. But you also want to balance overall recovery through the week.

Training deadlifts and clean hard in one session, your low back may or may not be recovered enough to go just as hard on barbell rows and stiff leg deads a few days later, and then hit the deads and cleans again a few days after that, repeat and repeat. That’s something you can play with as you go, based on how you perform and how you feel.

Fair enough. 4 or 5 good sets, playing with the weight to stay within 1 to 3 quality reps would be a good, productive start. Like Dan John has said, “about 10 good reps” is a solid goal when training a lift primarily for strength.

7

Since you are very weak right now, I would probably just have a Full Body routine that you perform 3x a week.
Something along the lines of…

#1. Bench
#2. Press
#3. Squat
#4. Deadlift (alternate stiff legged or romanian)
#5. Row
#6. Bicep Curl
#7. Tricep Curl

Throw in calves & abs when you desire.

Focus on getting those 7 lifts up and by the time your power cage comes in, you will have much better progression and a better foundation.

8

thanks for the feedback. I’ll adopt your routine I think. Maybe in 2-3 months I can buy a squat cage and do barbell bench and squat again too. I don’t have a coach, and frankly, given what P/ts charge here and the uneven quality I’ve seen from friends, I’m not inclined to use an actual physical trainer–70 bucks a session is pretty damn pricey.

I’ve been pretty good on the nutrition–hence the huge weight loss in the last year–but I’ll admit getting enough protein while keeping calories decent has been a challenge. I’m trying to use shrimp, chicken, and egg whites for that (seafood egg white omelet with spinach=yum). I know I need to eat more calories while lifting than I would while not lifting, but I’m trying to balance it. Current body weight is in the 250 range, I’d like to get back to 200 and have it be lean (less than 18% body fat).

I’d done a few sessions using the program I mapped out now. I know you’re supposed to give a routine time to work before switching, but it’s only a few, and yours seems similar enough I don’t think it’ll hit a reset button or anything.

The one thing that’s killing me is my deads–my back/legs are OK-ish (though doing lunges after deads hurt like hell). But my grip…oh god. My forearms haven’t quit hurting yet. I’m trying to tough it out so my grip gets better.

9

Like I said, drop all the movements like Lunges or Pullovers.There is no reason to do them right now,you will thank me and anybody else who tells you this in the future.Right now you need to get some serious strength and muscle all over your body with the compounds,without letting any bodyparts lag that you later regret are lagging.

Take a look at Reg Parks 5x5; I have been using it the past few months with incredible success.People don’t even recognize me ( I went from 130-180 pounds natural ) and my bench skyrocketed from failing with 45x5[the bar] to getting 225 by myself with zero spotter/touching chest/etc.

You will need to eat VERY well,and just focus ALOT on getting your strength up, but it truly is amazing and works.

Stick with these exercises:

#1. Barbell Squat
#2. Bench Movement
#3. Barbell Press
#4. Deadlift (alternate stiff legged)
#5. Barbell Row
#6. Barbell Bicep Curl
#7. Barbell Tricep Curl

keep adding 2.5-5 pounds once you get the desired # of reps and making progress on them.

I know deadlifts are a killer, but you will get used to them, my forearms had SERIOUS DOMS for days at the beginning; but they eventually got stronger, and my bicep curling helped a lot with it too. At the beginning, my max deadlift was a grinder 105 pounder,and I failed at 135. Now I got up 315x5 , and my bicep curl also went from not being able to curl 45, to now 105x3x5.

Just stick to the program and be CONSISTENT . If you stay consistent, you will be very happy with the results.

You can throw a few isolations if you desire after finishing the big 7 moves…for example…some rear/side delt flies so your rear delts don’t get neglected, maybe 3 sets of shrugs every other day for your traps. Very minor things, possibly even 3 sets of Hammer Curls so your brachioradialis gets stronger for Deadlifting/Curling/Benching/etc.

Let us know how everythings going! : )

10

I know squat would be great, but I do not have a cage. I could, in theory, buy those crappy little stands but even they’re 150 or so. I’ll save up a couple months and buy a basic rack instead for 500ish (suggestions on a good one in the 400-600 range welcome!). I don’t want to wait for then to start working out though.

I’m doing DB bench because, well, no cage or rack. I did manage the sets x reps db bench today with 65 per hand, which isn’t horrid. Not great for my size but…working on it.

I’d never heard of tricep curls so I googled them. What the heck do they do differently than tricep extensions, except that they’re one handed?

11

My apologies. I refer to Lying Tricep Barbell Extensions( usually known as Skullcrushers ) as Tricep Curl, because I follow Reg Parks routine and he calls them that. Haha… However, you have to find the right form for your lying barbell tricep extensions, because some people will say to go straight to the forehead, and others really get the long head stimulus when going BEHIND THE HEAD completely and getting the stretch(which has worked great for me). Just remember going behind the head will stretch and activate your long head more; the head that so many people neglect compared to other heads and really makes your triceps power shoot up.

Anyways - I understand you do not have a squat rack. Perhaps you can Barbell Hack Squat(Deadlift from behind) for Quads, and also just try Cleaning the weight and front squatting it the best you can. Romanian Deadlifts/Stiff/Conventional/Sumo will also help with the Hamstring development obviously. I’m usually able to clean the weight that I use for front squats,so perhaps you can just get conditioned to do so as well until you get your power rack.

As for benching, yes I meant just continue dumbbell benching. The other option is to sit on the floor and do FLOOR PRESS; an unbelievably valuable and incredible exercise.Many powerlifters use it, and it will allow you to still use the barbell and develop a great bench once you switch to normal. You can even just get a bench and put the bar on your stomach, then push it up and get it into position without unracking it like most people do ( people used to do this in the old days); and close grip bench that way too. I probably wouldn’t suggest going for mega grinder 2-3 rep maxes when doing this obviously…try to stick to 5+ reps. I actually worked up to a 225 bench in my garage doing this ( lol, serious ) , and just dumped the plates on the side or stood up with the bar once I hit failure.

Just keep everything safe, and keep progression up, work with what you can. Try out Floor Presses & Front Squats

12

I’ll give that a try. new one on me.

I’m practicing cleans during my workouts now, but I’m just using light weight. I wound up pulling the living hell out of my elbow the first day I tried them (and sending the bar into my throat) so I’m approaching them with caution. My eventual plan is to manage to clean a front squat into position, but right now I gotta work on cleaning and getting the weight safely into the holding position. I’m hoping a couple weeks of practice and I can get 135 or so up safely and into hold. I can clean for overhead presses, but that’s because I don’t need to rack the weights the same way. Going back that extra little bit is proving to be a cast iron bitch for me.

13

[quote]paulwhite959 wrote:
The one thing that’s killing me is my deads–my back/legs are OK-ish (though doing lunges after deads hurt like hell). But my grip…oh god. My forearms haven’t quit hurting yet. I’m trying to tough it out so my grip gets better. [/quote]
Yeah, that can be an issue when doing some kind of deadlift each session. You’ll eventually build up some conditioning, but in the mean time you might want to grab some wrist straps to use on the last, most challenging sets. That should take some of the strain off the forearms and grip while still letting them develop strength.

Keep an eye on your local Craigslist. Sometimes you luck out and find a good deal. I know a lady who eventually outfitted a pretty nice home gym with decent equipment mostly by checking Craigslist frequently.

Cool, man. Some people like to practice them with a broomstick or practically no weight, but that actually makes it harder for me to feel the movement. I need some kind of resistance, so sometimes I’ll drill technique with 55 or 65 pounds - just a little something to actually move around. In any case, it’s definitely worth the practice.

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
drop all the movements like Lunges or Pullovers.There is no reason to do them right now[/quote]
When he already has limited exercise options due to his current equipment, why would we ditch these two useful exercises?

Not for nothing, but if you’re going to use yourself as an example, you should clarify that you’re 6’0" tall, which means that you were severely underweight at 130.

So lunges or pullovers would be a waste of time, but rear delts flyes could be a good idea?!?

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edit

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[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
Yes, Rear Delts are critical to train. It’s shameful that you have such a high post account and don’t know how crucial they are do to underdevelopment of most individuals with them, their injury prevention, and how crucial they are in aiding with every single lifts.[/quote]
Couple things here:

  • Training the rear delts is different from training the upper back musculature (delts, teres, rhomboids, traps, etc.) as a whole. The former is more significant for aesthetics, the latter is more significant for strength and injury prevention.

  • My post count is not a measure of my training knowledge. My experience, and my career, is.

  • Rear delt flyes do not “aid in every single lift”. Period.

Depends what you mean by “other exercises” but, suffice it to say, I disagree.

16

hey chris i’m sorry about that I didn’t type that last post… my douchebag friend was at my house and wrote that , I would have never been a dick like that…

Trying to see if I can delete or edit it

:confused: sorry