I don’t see a problem with the fact that he decided to take steroids, there is no such thing as starting too early as long as he’s got the right mindset. I would drop the AI on cycle, that’s my personal preference, control estrogen with a serm and cycle hcg throughout at 250iu’s twice/week. 250mg is concidered low by BB standards but I’ve read about hyperresponders who put on close to 20 clean lbs on such a dose.
Oh yeah and the reason you aren’t growing is because you are barely eating … 3000cals …
[quote]Rekkitanko wrote:
I don’t see a problem with the fact that he decided to take steroids, there is no such thing as starting too early as long as he’s got the right mindset. I would drop the AI on cycle, that’s my personal preference, control estrogen with a serm and cycle hcg throughout at 250iu’s twice/week. 250mg is concidered low by BB standards but I’ve read about hyperresponders who put on close to 20 clean lbs on such a dose.
Oh yeah and the reason you aren’t growing is because you are barely eating … 3000cals … [/quote]
Why are you recommending to drop the AI on cycle and replace it with a SERM. I hope you just simply confused the terms and don’t actually beleive that is good advice.
HCG does nothing to control estrogen, either.
Your opinion on it not being possible to start too early is also questionable, but it is your opinion so I guess it’s not my place to comment further.
I do not like to play with AI’s on cycle, very much prefer serm’s, if and when needed, my reasoning for this is to avoid lipid profile alteration (HDL, LDL, …), eventually throw in letro for urgent measures. Obviously I’ve learned how my body does with estrogen, and at 250mg/week he may need even need estrogen control, maybe even at 500mg depends on sensitivity. Hcg protocol on cycle in place of his PCT hcg.
Why do you think it’s too soon, the guy will never compete, just wants to look better, if he puts on 20-30lbs through AA’s cycling (multiple), with proper nutrition and training he will most likely be able to keep it all. That’s how I’ve learned to see it.
[quote]Rekkitanko wrote:
I do not like to play with AI’s on cycle, very much prefer serm’s, if and when needed, my reasoning for this is to avoid lipid profile alteration (HDL, LDL, …), eventually throw in letro for urgent measures. Obviously I’ve learned how my body does with estrogen, and at 250mg/week he may need even need estrogen control, maybe even at 500mg depends on sensitivity. Hcg protocol on cycle in place of his PCT hcg.
Why do you think it’s too soon, the guy will never compete, just wants to look better, if he puts on 20-30lbs through AA’s cycling (multiple), with proper nutrition and training he will most likely be able to keep it all. That’s how I’ve learned to see it.
[/quote]
SERMs instead of AIs would improve your lipid profile and afford protection against gyno, but it would still be leaving your body susceptible to other ill effects from estrogen. The main one, at least to me… being perhaps a few years older than you, is prostate nastiness. There’s no reason for someone just starting to use an aromatic AAS to chance the complications of excess estrogen. Eight or ten weeks of slightly poorer lipids is hardly life altering, provided you aren’t starting off with a pre-existing metabolic issue.
Now do you honestly think he’s going to keep extra weight that he adds? I wish the kid the best, but unless he changes his eating as several of us have suggested, I don’t see any chance. The fact that he wants to gain some muscle and lose BF on this, his first cycle, doesn’t gibe with long-term success. It seems like an unnecessary cycle at this point.
Additionally, being further from his natural limit means he’ll quickly have profound gains. Along with this is an enhanced risk of injury, as his connective tissue is going to be even further behind the 8-ball, particularly given his relatively delicate frame.
Well what I think I know is DHT plays a role in prostate hypertrophy and cancerous developpment and I am ashamed to admit I have never heard one word about estrogen before (related to this specific topic).
Link?
I found this but will have to reread it multiple times.
[quote]Rekkitanko wrote:
Well what I think I know is DHT plays a role in prostate hypertrophy and cancerous developpment and I am ashamed to admit I have never heard one word about estrogen before (related to this specific topic).
Link?
I found this but will have to reread it multiple times.
I think we’re still far from having the complete picture. Hopefully other readers can fill in the gaps wrt the currest state of research, because frankly, my knowledge is weak… limited to occasional Pubmed searches.
But I understand your thinking, because certainly for many years most experts seemed to focus almost solely on DHT. There’s been a shift in thinking in recent years, though. Estrogen activity at the alpha receptor appears to be a major player in inducing growth, while activity at hte beta receptor plays some role in limiting damages. Additionally, the ratio of DHT to E appears to be relevant, so the mechanisms aren’t completely clear yet.
BONEZ, since you have the time to piss on this thread would you be kind enough to explain to me how you would “overhaul” my diet as well as my lifting regiment?
I agree that my caloric intake should be increased, and I am beginning to eat about 750 cal/meal as opposed to the previous 500cal/meal.
whotookmyname, I truly appreciate the respect and your advice. I hope you will check back in a few weeks to check out my results. I know my potential and it is much harder to be excited about wrecking shit at the gym when soo many people throw it at you on here. Your helping me keep my head up.
Rekkitanko, You are right on with my goals and reasoning for starting the cycle. I am going to follow the protocol of 250iu’s twice/week of hcg.
I am going to begin keeping a diet journal so I can hear some feedback from the pros. Ain’t that right BONEZ?
[quote]whotookmyname wrote:
Rekkitanko wrote:
Well what I think I know is DHT plays a role in prostate hypertrophy and cancerous developpment and I am ashamed to admit I have never heard one word about estrogen before (related to this specific topic).
Link?
I found this but will have to reread it multiple times.
I think we’re still far from having the complete picture. Hopefully other readers can fill in the gaps wrt the currest state of research, because frankly, my knowledge is weak… limited to occasional Pubmed searches.
But I understand your thinking, because certainly for many years most experts seemed to focus almost solely on DHT. There’s been a shift in thinking in recent years, though. Estrogen activity at the alpha receptor appears to be a major player in inducing growth, while activity at hte beta receptor plays some role in limiting damages.
Additionally, the ratio of DHT to E appears to be relevant, so the mechanisms aren’t completely clear yet.
[/quote]
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I’ll get some reading done.
[quote]TheGymCatalyst wrote:
BONEZ, since you have the time to piss on this thread would you be kind enough to explain to me how you would “overhaul” my diet as well as my lifting regiment?
I agree that my caloric intake should be increased, and I am beginning to eat about 750 cal/meal as opposed to the previous 500cal/meal.
whotookmyname, I truly appreciate the respect and your advice. I hope you will check back in a few weeks to check out my results. I know my potential and it is much harder to be excited about wrecking shit at the gym when soo many people throw it at you on here. Your helping me keep my head up.
Rekkitanko, You are right on with my goals and reasoning for starting the cycle. I am going to follow the protocol of 250iu’s twice/week of hcg.
I am going to begin keeping a diet journal so I can hear some feedback from the pros. Ain’t that right BONEZ?
[/quote]
250iu’s twice/week is not written in stone, you may need to bump it, but that is what most ppl agree with for 500mg/week. I personally do 1000iu’s/week split in 3 injections, starting around week 3-5, usually going with 3 weeks blasts followed by 500iu’s cruise and I’ll do 2-3 blasts/cycle, always finishing cycles with one.
I personally like Russian or Bulgarian strength cycle focusing on the big 3’s with some ancilliary moves.
[quote]TheGymCatalyst wrote:
BONEZ, since you have the time to piss on this thread would you be kind enough to explain to me how you would “overhaul” my diet as well as my lifting regiment?
I agree that my caloric intake should be increased, and I am beginning to eat about 750 cal/meal as opposed to the previous 500cal/meal.
whotookmyname, I truly appreciate the respect and your advice. I hope you will check back in a few weeks to check out my results. I know my potential and it is much harder to be excited about wrecking shit at the gym when soo many people throw it at you on here. Your helping me keep my head up.
Rekkitanko, You are right on with my goals and reasoning for starting the cycle. I am going to follow the protocol of 250iu’s twice/week of hcg.
I am going to begin keeping a diet journal so I can hear some feedback from the pros. Ain’t that right BONEZ?
[/quote]
I pissed on the thread? Grow the hell up.
I just said what every single other person was thinking and I wasn’t even particularly mean or rude about it. Guys with thin skin don’t last long around here.
How would you like me to ‘overhaul’ anything with only the information you’ve provided.
I have no idea what that last line means but it doesn’t sound like you are asking a question or answering one of mine. Please keep my name out of your mouth if that is the case. I already find you annoying, don’t instigate me.
9 AM : -2 extra lean ground beef (93% lean) burgers on 100% whole wheat buns
- 1 serving of oatmeal with walnuts and raisins
- 1.5 glasses of skim milk
12 PM : -Grapefruit
-4 eggs (2 yolks removed) w/ partial skim mozzarella cheese
- 1/2 cup cottage cheese
- 2 cups skim milk
- 1 cup mixed greens with red and green bell peppers
WORKOUT (1PM): Trap Bar Deadlift 3 X 5
Barbell Bench Press 3 X 6
Split Squat w/ Barbell 2 X 6 (each leg)
Reverse Hyp. Ext. 2 X 15
Weighted Chin Ups 8/6/6 with 25lb plate
DB Shoulder Press 3 X 8
Weighted Dips 8/8/6 with 25lb/35lb/45lb plate
Upright Rows 3 X 10
Swiss Ball Push Ups 2 X 8
Swiss Ball Planks 2 X 1 min. holds
Barbell Rollout 2 X 10
Neck Machine 1 X 10 each direction (40 total)
3 PM: -2 glasses of skim milk
- 4 large watermelon slices
- 1/2 cup cottage cheese
- mixed greens with sunflower seeds
- 1 bowl of plain oatmeal w/ cinnamon
- 1/2 cup of pinto beans w/ cheese
- ~ 3 ounces of 80% lean ground beef
Getting ready to eat before work. How does this look, any better?
BONEZ I apologize for being offended, I’m sure your a legend and just lookin’ out for the rookies. Thanks for keeping my head straight.
Hey. Good on you posting this thread. You seem to have a good solid foundation to start with. Far too many fat 19 y/o kids taking roids with zero need and understanding of what is needed.
You are lean. This is your first cycle. 250mg of test is PLENTY. You DO NOT NEED 500g. Sorry for shouting the obvious. If you feel you must, then try 300g, but you will probably get just as much lean mass on 250 with a clean high calorie diet and a serious training program. Maybe the 5/3/1 program would be a good place to start.
Each cycle you do, if you decide to continue in another 6 months or so, you have room to add quantity. If you start on 500mg then decide to do a few more cycles, you are going to end up pumping huge amounts of steroids with associated increased side effects.
Coupled with a high calorie diet of clean protein, fat and carbs and a heavy 5-6 day weight schedule and low cardio (maybe a walk each morning) will bring you fantastic results. Yes, you will gain a bit of fat, but not so much that you can’t drop it in a month or two after your PCT finishes.
From your first post is sounds like you have done some research. Don’t let a bit of sarcasm and ignorance put you off. Stick to your plan. This is your first cycle or, to put it another way, your first try. Keep it simple and you can tweak the next cycle to suit your unique physiology. Just because someone has a certain type of avatar does not mean they know shit.
[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
You DO NOT NEED 500g. Sorry for shouting the obvious. If you feel you must, then try 300g, but you will probably get just as much lean mass on 250 with a clean high calorie diet and a serious training program. Maybe the 5/3/1 program would be a good place to start.
[/quote]
BRO you def need 500GRAMS!! 500grams a week will make you so huge. Of course that much test probably requires atleast 1 g of letro a week…
[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
Hey. Good on you posting this thread. You seem to have a good solid foundation to start with. Far too many fat 19 y/o kids taking roids with zero need and understanding of what is needed.
You are lean. This is your first cycle. 250mg of test is PLENTY. You DO NOT NEED 500g. Sorry for shouting the obvious. If you feel you must, then try 300g, but you will probably get just as much lean mass on 250 with a clean high calorie diet and a serious training program. Maybe the 5/3/1 program would be a good place to start.
Each cycle you do, if you decide to continue in another 6 months or so, you have room to add quantity. If you start on 500mg then decide to do a few more cycles, you are going to end up pumping huge amounts of steroids with associated increased side effects.
Coupled with a high calorie diet of clean protein, fat and carbs and a heavy 5-6 day weight schedule and low cardio (maybe a walk each morning) will bring you fantastic results. Yes, you will gain a bit of fat, but not so much that you can’t drop it in a month or two after your PCT finishes.
From your first post is sounds like you have done some research. Don’t let a bit of sarcasm and ignorance put you off. Stick to your plan. This is your first cycle or, to put it another way, your first try. Keep it simple and you can tweak the next cycle to suit your unique physiology. Just because someone has a certain type of avatar does not mean they know shit.
[/quote]
LOL- seriously one of the dumbest things I’ve read in this thread. I suspect you could possibly even be the OP’s original username. Where is it written that any subsequent cycles HAVE to increase the amount of gear you use?
And to the OP, I only saw you post one workout routine, but it was one of the worst I’ve ever seen and didn’t follow any sort of logic. That fits in perfectly for being a personal trainer so I believe you there, but you probably should’ve fixed your routine before using gear. Probably could’ve made some serious gains.