Final Hughes Vs. Gracie Thread?

[BSims]

[quote]808fightconcepts wrote:
Did anyone forget that Randy Couture was in his 40’s when he was kicking ass in the octagon? Yes, Hughes is strong and blah blah blah blah blah…but let’s remember some facts here gents:[/quote]

Randy Couture was/is a more COMPLETE fighter than Gracie…

[quote]
1.) Royce grew up in Rio, and started learning jiu-jitsu very early on in life.[/quote]

true, an advantage…

[quote]
2.) Royce has more EXPERIENCE in terms of fights.[/quote]

he’s got more experience lying on his back but i would say Hughes has the advantage in fighting experience. in the dimensions needed for MMA Hughes is overall better…

[quote]
3.) Royce grew up with brothers, cousins, dad, uncles etc. who are all VERY skilled fighters.[/quote]

…they ain’t fighting…

[quote]

4.) Royce gracie is…well, ROYCE GRACIE.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he trained with Rickson on this one. Do all of you really think that a gracie brother would just train nonchalantly for a fight of this hype. I think that vid that was posted earlier on the thread was for Hughes to see and to underestimate Royce. I bet all I got that he’s training for possibly the last professional fight of his life. My two cents…gracie by submission 3rd round. I believe someone else called this earlier in the thread too. But whatever, ya’ll think what you want but we’re not fighting so let’s just sit back and enjoy the fight eh?[/quote]

Just because he’s Royce Gracie doesn’t mean squat anymore. Ken Shamrock, was, Ken Shamrock and whether he says he wasn’t conditioned or his knee was bummed up when he fought Ortiz point is his ass was handed to him. If you’ve seen that preview on Spike with Hughes and Gracie’s predictions…“this is my house…i built it…” oh what bullshit, IMO.

Hughes victorious and hopefully he punishes Gracie letting him know he doesn’t have a place in MMA anymore.

[Adamsson]

1. Royce is useless in the standup… his striking isn’t worth squat compared to todays standards.

2. Royce was a legend when he faced opponents that didn’t know an armbar from a cup of tea… this has also changed.

3. Royce hasn’t had a decent matchup in YEARS… Hughes is facing worthy opponents as often as possible.

When it comes to rules… well, it isn’t possible to lay’n pray anymore, just look at the 15 minute rounds in Pride, you can try to lay’n pray, but you WILL get pounded from here and into eternity with the standard of todays fighters… So, even if the rules were changed, royce would only have a slight chance… and the Gracie hype IS very blown out of proportions… Rickson didn’t win his 400 fights and he is not a living legend…

[ZEB]

[quote]eqpfunk wrote:

- YouTube

Here’s Royce preparing. His boxing doesn’t look fantastic, but he does seem to be practicing it.[/quote]

Nice video eqpfunk!

Royce seems to be training his heart out. He also seems to be training a lot of punching and some kicking too.

[ZEB]

[quote]danew wrote:
Hughes will be able to out-box him,
[/quote]

I don’t think that this is Hughes strength. And given the height and reach advantage of Gracie Hughes would do better to ground and pound.

[ZEB]

[quote]fedor_is_king wrote:
But even if matt wins theres no way he’s beating GSP.
[/quote]

I know GSP will be too much for Hughes to…Oh wait…he already submitted GSP…Look for an instant replay, with some ground and pound added in.

[enterthedojo]

[quote]doogie wrote:
My wife is getting into “The ultimate fighter” so I down loaded Legends of the Octagon with Gracie to show her the way it has changed over the years.

I wish it was like the old days, no time limits, best man walks out.

I just don’t like Hughes. I really hope Gracie hurts him.[/quote]

I’m with you on this one.

I’ve been a fan of ultimate fighting ever since the first UFC in 1993 (“welcome to McNichols Aren-burp”). I’ve ordered as many UFC, Pride FC, K-1, and any other MMA events on Pay Per View as I possibly could. And unlike many fans now, I actually train! So don’t get me wrong, I still love the sport!

But in the early days, it was more PURE. One of the closest possible things to a real fight you could ever see, without being a real fight.

Sure sometimes it was a little boring: people waiting for a mistake, or people resting on the ground trying to get some energy back. But hey guess what, sometimes that’s part of fighting! And it was usually very easy to answer the question “Who is the better fighter?”

Now, we have:
-time limits
-gloves
-more illegal strikes
-the no stalling and standup rules
-a break to check these MINOR CUTS that WWE wrestlers would give themselves on freaking PURPOSE…and go on to FAKE WRESTLE FOR AN HOUR… (stupid red-haired lady doctor - she stops every damn fight)
-more stuff

And its become a lot harder to answer that question.

There have been a lot of fights where one fighter is in the bottom of the mount position getting pummelled, or caught in a perfect triangle or armbar, and the bell rings! So to me, the fight is already won, regardless of the final outcome.

Ah well, its much more of a sport now, which is a good and bad thing I guess. Most people I’ve talked to don’t really care who wins and loses, they just want to see spinning hook kicks and brutal knockouts, not “2 guys making out on the ground.” For the average guy its probably much more exciting.

But MAN, screw that, I miss the early days!!

[doogie]

[quote]enterthedojo wrote:

Ah well, its much more of a sport now, which is a good and bad thing I guess. Most people I’ve talked to don’t really care who wins and loses, they just want to see spinning hook kicks and brutal knockouts, not “2 guys making out on the ground.” For the average guy its probably much more exciting.

But MAN, screw that, I miss the early days!![/quote]

I liked it too. It was about what would most likely prevail on the street. Now it is about who is the best fighter within the limits of these particular rules. STill very entertaining, just different.

There were a lot of those early fights with Gracie on his back, looking like he was being dominated and all of a sudden the other guy just quit. I had to watch them over and over to really appreciate what he was able to do to those guys without really inflicting any damage on them.

The scariest thing about seeing Gracie back in 1993 when I was still a young pup going out to bars and getting into fights was thinking, “Holy crap. I would fuck with that little guy and get myself killed.”

Before seeing him, I was pretty confident in judging my chance of not taking an assbeating based on the other guy’s general appearance. I trusted in strength and pure aggression/cruelty to get me out of most situations alive. Once the UFC took off and people started getting into this stuff, you never knew what that little guy could do.

[enterthedojo]

[quote]doogie wrote:
The scariest thing about seeing Gracie back in 1993 when I was still a young pup going out to bars and getting into fights was thinking, “Holy crap. I would fuck with that little guy and get myself killed.”

Before seeing him, I was pretty confident in judging my chance of not taking an assbeating based on the other guy’s general appearance. I trusted in strength and pure aggression/cruelty to get me out of most situations alive. Once the UFC took off and people started getting into this stuff, you never knew what that little guy could do.
[/quote]

Haha, very true! I started paying attention to who had scarred/calloused knuckles and cauliflower ears! “You can’t beat me I’m bigger than you” became such a worthless statement!

Royce was ridiculously skilled… I’ve read that he tried very hard not to hurt his opponent or try to use too much strength. Back in the day, he and his family just wanted the world to see the effectiveness of Gracie JJ. See that skill and knowledge could beat strength and aggression.

Now of course, everyone understands the importance of JJ and skill is fairly equal, so strength and agressiveness play a huge part.

So as much as I want Royce to win, I think Matt is gonna take it.

Gracie probably won’t have the time he needs to set up a submission with Matt being good on the ground plus all the “stand up you’re not being aggressive” crap after 2 seconds of stalling. Include the time limits, and I just don’t think it can happen. I really doubt its going to be a stand up fight, both fighters are master grapplers. And perhaps it’s somewhat of a conspiracy theory… but I think it would be in Zuffa’s best interests for Matt to win this fight… if you know what I mean. So it will probably end up as a judge’s decision with Hughes winning by ground and pound.

But thats my opinion and I hope Royce proves me wrong!

[slimjim]

I’m not discounting Gracie’s abilities at all in this one. He is the one I want to see win this fight.

However, with five minute rounds(I’m not sure if they’re going for 3 rounds or 5) and restarts on the feet when there is inactivity, he is at a distinct disadvantage to Hughes who can simply go hard for five minutes and stall if necessary to avoid the submission on the ground. I do not see this going Royce’s way, but I will be cheering for him nonetheless.

That said I am excited that he is reentering the Octagon for his final match

[ZEB]

[quote]slimjim wrote:
I’m not discounting Gracie’s abilities at all in this one. He is the one I want to see win this fight.

However, with five minute rounds(I’m not sure if they’re going for 3 rounds or 5) and restarts on the feet when there is inactivity, he is at a distinct disadvantage to Hughes who can simply go hard for five minutes and stall if necessary to avoid the submission on the ground. I do not see this going Royce’s way, but I will be cheering for him nonetheless.

That said I am excited that he is reentering the Octagon for his final match[/quote]

Is this his “final match?” Is he retiring after this? I don’t recall reading anything about that, maybe I missed it.

[Brendan_Ryan]

Hughes easily.

Nice find on the youtube btw

[futuredave]

[quote]enterthedojo wrote:
Ah well, its much more of a sport now, which is a good and bad thing I guess. Most people I’ve talked to don’t really care who wins and loses, they just want to see spinning hook kicks and brutal knockouts, not “2 guys making out on the ground.” For the average guy its probably much more exciting.

But MAN, screw that, I miss the early days!![/quote]

Amen. I think the changes were absolutely necessary, but there was something very pure about the “no time limit, no fish hook or eye gouging days.”

Would Hughes still win in that format? Maybe, but he’d be in for a helluva frustrating fight.

[Bdfone]

[quote]Jason32 wrote:
As much as I don’t like Matt Hughes… it’s gonna be like Ortiz vs Shamrock. Only worse.[/quote]

It’s now gonna be Forrest Griffin vs Ken Shamrock in July 'cause Ortiz pulled out due to injury… or fear of Shamrock. one or the other.

I’m cheering for Gracie even though I know Hughes is gonna win.

Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World.

Bdfone. Out.

[Scrappy]

I think Hughes will win. But I’m rooting for Royce. If Royce is really preparing right and Matt takes it light, there could be a sub upset. But I doubt it.

Boxing wise, Royce isn’t good, but is Matt? I really don’t think so. I think he has GnP. I think Royce will be tough to get many clean consecutive shots off on but if anyone can do it, Hughes can capitalize on a short opening and possibly put him away. I think Hughes by decision though in a kind of boring fight.
But I hope Royce chokes his ass out.

[ZEB]

[quote]Bdfone wrote:
Jason32 wrote:
As much as I don’t like Matt Hughes… it’s gonna be like Ortiz vs Shamrock. Only worse.

It’s now gonna be Forrest Griffin vs Ken Shamrock in July 'cause Ortiz pulled out due to injury… or fear of Shamrock. one or the other.

[/quote]

Is this a fact?

Will it be Griffin vs Shamrock?

What a pure slugfest that will be if that’s the case.

[cap_nsalty]

[quote]doogie wrote:
My wife is getting into “The ultimate fighter” so I down loaded Legends of the Octagon with Gracie to show her the way it has changed over the years.

I wish it was like the old days, no time limits, best man walks out.

I just don’t like Hughes. I really hope Gracie hurts him.[/quote]

Ugh. Hour long fights suck, and they would suck even worse now because you don’t have dominating fighters like you used to. What would end up happening is a large percentage of the fights would just be decided by conditioning. Watching tired fighters try to stay on their feet is about as exciting as watching paint dry.

I also disagree with the supposed “purity” of the beginning days of the UFC. The early days were a sideshow spectacle. A bunch of people who had no idea how to compete in this new sport beating the shit out of each other. It didn’t even look like a sport, and I can see how the UFC almost went under.

[Bdfone]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Bdfone wrote:
Jason32 wrote:
As much as I don’t like Matt Hughes… it’s gonna be like Ortiz vs Shamrock. Only worse.

It’s now gonna be Forrest Griffin vs Ken Shamrock in July 'cause Ortiz pulled out due to injury… or fear of Shamrock. one or the other.

Is this a fact?

Will it be Griffin vs Shamrock?

What a pure slugfest that will be if that’s the case.

[/quote]

Here’s the link. Talks about other fights UFC has planned for the rest of the year too.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/OtherSports/2006/04/26/1551861-cp.html

[Rookie21]

Is it just me or did that workout video look really sad. I am not man to critisize but the shots taken on him looked like shit and even at half speed royce’s defence seemed like shit. Regardless I except a pretty good fight with hughes winning in the 4th.

btw to whoever was talking about gracie going out to bars and fighting, i remember hearing a story about that and some big guy knocking him out with one big right.

[A_Town_Crown]

I saw this under that clip. How long do you guys think Hughes would last with Sakuraba?

If I were to bet the farm I say Hughes wins, but I’m hoping to see Royce rip his fuckin arm off. When they announced this fight Hughes should’ve got down on his hands and knees and bowed before Royce for allowing Him to be able to wear that belt (that he doesn’t deserve)here in the states. Instead he says some smart ass remark about Royce being over the hill.

If Hughes is in Pride, no way he wears that belt, and I look foward to seeing him get knocked the fuck out, via GSP or Penn.

[eqpfunk]

[quote]A-Town Crown wrote:
I saw this under that clip. How long do you guys think Hughes would last with Sakuraba?

If I were to bet the farm I say Hughes wins, but I’m hoping to see Royce rip his fuckin arm off. When they announced this fight Hughes should’ve got down on his hands and knees and bowed before Royce for allowing Him to be able to wear that belt (that he doesn’t deserve)here in the states. Instead he says some smart ass remark about Royce being over the hill.

If Hughes is in Pride, no way he wears that belt, and I look foward to seeing him get knocked the fuck out, via GSP or Penn.[/quote]

Why does everyone hate on Hughes so much? And the whole this guy in Pride vs. that guy in UFC is getting ooooold as my grandma’s underwear man.