Fighting Basics

Training
61

I know I’m late on this but i want my two cents to be heard for the OP. I read just a little of this thread and Ghost you are right. It would be tragic and very costly to sacrifice your social life. I did and 6 years later its never been the same. Don’t let a ex boyfriend run out out of a social scene even if he runs you away from an ex girlfriend of his.

Next. Don’t let him run you away from a girl you like. You get hit, you fight to safety. You be nice to the girl and the friends around until you learn the guys first and last name then you report him to the police. An ex girlfriend goes from something to obsess over to fuck that stupid bitch after about 2 hours in the klink swearing how dead the guy is and how insane the woman is. Everyone walks out of jail a humbled person. Don’t be afraid of sending someone into the think tank.

If you aren’t training with a group of people and a coach then you are exposed to a false sense of capabilities. You can only learn a perception of what to do by video learning skills. BJJ practitioners become black belts after average of 10 years of training and then quite MMA competition after being exposed to getting punched in the face for 10 minutes.

BJJ is amazing. The point is men a lot better then you can’t take the heat when the reality sets in. So. On your own terms. Adjust to the reality of it. Getting hit triggers an emotional response.

If that is brought to you by force or surprise you tear up, you tremble, both embarrass you and can make a person timid or terrorized of a re experience of it in the future. Thus they don’t go back to the bar, give up on the girl, teach the men around that you can be bullied away from a girl and you lose out.

On your own terms join a club. For the investment of a few hundred bucks you can emotionally adjust to the natural reactions of getting hit. Along with that fee you will be presented with people more capable of beating your ass then the average guy that goes from work to a bar. Why. Cause they go from work to the fight club THEN to the bar. When you are sized up against some you stop thinking its you vs him. You can start thinking a,b and x,y from my club work me over 3 days a week better then i bet this guy can.

The result may be that you stand your ground and the person decides hurting you isn’t worth the investment.
Another result may be that you stand your ground get some black eyes and busted lips but you return to a place that respects you cause you can take what others have to dish out like a man and it isn’t worth exposing them selfs to black eyes and busted lips where that leads to police involvement and arrests for starting a fight with you.

Last and not least when you been though the fight training a few months its a hell of a lot easier to walk away. Asian lovers call it humility. I call it humiliation resistance. When walking away is done out of fear then you leave a defeated loser in your self image. That weights on you for days even weeks. When you walk away cause it isn’t worth fighting the fight. When you walk away out of choice.

Logic and emotion both keep you proud. People can see it on you to. Walking away can look cowardly or it can look like someone has higher self value then the situation. Then you are of higher value then the situation, the guy, and the girl. If you didn’t know. The woman involved will find you sexier. The women watching will find you sexier.

The men watching will respect you for having class. The venue owners and workers will respect you for not making a mountain out of a mole hill and they will respect you coming back. You can parlay that into a free beer and a conversation with the owner if you return in the next day or two, shake the managers hand and tell him about your feelings at HIS BUSINESS. “Its hard to walk away but i want to build my welcome around here”

Wow there is still more.
The guy that gets you to walk away today has no motivation to hit the mits, spar people that will punish him for making skill mistakes in a fight club sparing session, no motivation to run, adjust his diet, HIIT, Tabata punch outs or increase his knowledge and reflexes.

So he doesn’t. (unless he is already in a fight club himself)

You leaving leaves an imprint in his memory. He has a successful go to plan next time you are with that woman.
However if you did all that shit. Then the next time he has a problem with you and applies his intimidation plan you have grown into a better prepared person. He doesn’t know you had your bell rung 3 times that month in sparing sessions nor that you learned take down defense, how to counter punch, how to duck or weave.

You can stay in the heat long enough for him to blow his lid and walk away cause intimidation isn’t working or he can get into a fight with a guy he once picked on. Picking a fight with rocky when he is just bouncing his ball vs picking on rocky after you killed Apollo in the ring are two different Rockys.

Go from one capable man to a better capable man behind the closed doors of a club of fighters who all meet from different walks of life for common goals. Learning new abilities, Understanding the dynamics of a fight they may be presented with in the future, Maintaining some standard of quality in their abilities to defend them selfs and their families vs threats. If you broad cast what you are doing you send a signal to all the potential threats friends and foes that they need to increase their standard as well to keep ahead of you.

Now train

62

Sorry but that part of “turning the other cheek” is absolutely not true, people will not think more highly of you. It’s probably a sad by product of more primitive times, but the fact of the matter is if you walk away or “take the higher path” in a confrontation in a club/pub, everyone who is on looking, especially the person who is trying to intimidate you, will think you are weak/backing down. Women will think you are a pussy, and men will mark you for an easy target.

I’m not suggesting you try to fight everyone who tries to intimidate you, but if this is happening in a place you frequent/want to frequent and it’s just one guy trying to out you, you are probably better off in the long run by slotting him while he’s talking.

63

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Sorry but that part of “turning the other cheek” is absolutely not true, people will not think more highly of you. It’s probably a sad by product of more primitive times, but the fact of the matter is if you walk away or “take the higher path” in a confrontation in a club/pub, everyone who is on looking, especially the person who is trying to intimidate you, will think you are weak/backing down. Women will think you are a pussy, and men will mark you for an easy target.

I’m not suggesting you try to fight everyone who tries to intimidate you, but if this is happening in a place you frequent/want to frequent and it’s just one guy trying to out you, you are probably better off in the long run by slotting him while he’s talking.[/quote]

You 100% have not context of what he said. Maybe because you think of it as turning the other cheek, when you should think of it as getting out of the situation. When you fight and win some people may be like “oooo ahhh he’s a great fighter” but only a few more then the people that say your a punk, BUT when you can walk a way from a fight because everyone knows you would kill the other guy.

People don’t fuck with you. Some people are hot headed start shit before thinking, if your the guy they start thinking I wish i didn’t get so hot headed they will back off, and NOBODY will be trying to bully you because you let the other guy out of it.

64

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Sorry but that part of “turning the other cheek” is absolutely not true, people will not think more highly of you. It’s probably a sad by product of more primitive times, but the fact of the matter is if you walk away or “take the higher path” in a confrontation in a club/pub, everyone who is on looking, especially the person who is trying to intimidate you, will think you are weak/backing down. Women will think you are a pussy, and men will mark you for an easy target.

I’m not suggesting you try to fight everyone who tries to intimidate you, but if this is happening in a place you frequent/want to frequent and it’s just one guy trying to out you, you are probably better off in the long run by slotting him while he’s talking.[/quote]

I agree.Someone is messing with you with no provoaction on your side-just bang the idiot! It solves more problems than it creates.

65

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Sorry but that part of “turning the other cheek” is absolutely not true, people will not think more highly of you. It’s probably a sad by product of more primitive times, but the fact of the matter is if you walk away or “take the higher path” in a confrontation in a club/pub, everyone who is on looking, especially the person who is trying to intimidate you, will think you are weak/backing down. Women will think you are a pussy, and men will mark you for an easy target.

I’m not suggesting you try to fight everyone who tries to intimidate you, but if this is happening in a place you frequent/want to frequent and it’s just one guy trying to out you, you are probably better off in the long run by slotting him while he’s talking.[/quote]

Eh, maybe, maybe not but you have to ask yourself, what is more important, having a bunch of random strangers at some bar (and probably even then only a percentage of them) think you’re tough, or going home to your bed, and resuming your life the next day? Maybe in Australia or Spain having someone talk smack to you is legal justification to punch them in the face, but here in the states that’s called assault and you are not only likely to get kicked out of the bar, but quite possibly face legal ramifications.

If you were in the middle of some abandoned parking lot, are with someone who you have to protect and are jumped, then yeah, go to town on them; in some cases you must revert to physical violence in order to survive. But in a crowded place like a bar there are sure to be onlookers and bouncers who are going to see you as the attacker/problem (or at the very least equally guilty as the other guy) and are going to relay that observation to the police when they show up. And since all the other person did was say intimidating/mean things to you, you’re going to have a hard time arguing that your actions were justified.

If this girl is the type who thinks less of you for walking away from someone trying to bully you, and “taking the high road”, then find another girl, there are plenty more of them out there. Do you really think she’s going to wait around for you while you’re in jail for manslaughter because you didn’t back down, chose to clock this guy in the face, only to have him fall and hit his head on the ground thus resulting in his death (happened not too long ago at a bar near me)? Hell no, she’ll move on to the next guy in no time flat. Then what are you left with?

66

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Sorry but that part of “turning the other cheek” is absolutely not true, people will not think more highly of you. It’s probably a sad by product of more primitive times, but the fact of the matter is if you walk away or “take the higher path” in a confrontation in a club/pub, everyone who is on looking, especially the person who is trying to intimidate you, will think you are weak/backing down. Women will think you are a pussy, and men will mark you for an easy target.

I’m not suggesting you try to fight everyone who tries to intimidate you, but if this is happening in a place you frequent/want to frequent and it’s just one guy trying to out you, you are probably better off in the long run by slotting him while he’s talking.[/quote]

Eh, maybe, maybe not but you have to ask yourself, what is more important, having a bunch of random strangers at some bar (and probably even then only a percentage of them) think you’re tough, or going home to your bed, and resuming your life the next day? Maybe in Australia or Spain having someone talk smack to you is legal justification to punch them in the face, but here in the states that’s called assault and you are not only likely to get kicked out of the bar, but quite possibly face legal ramifications.
[/quote]

I’m hardly talking about some dickhead who is just trying to rile you up with words. I’m talking about someone who is showing is being verbally and physically aggressive, showing all the tell tale signs that he is about to go the next step and slot you, or worse: glass you and stamp on your head. The kind of people who go looking for fights in pubs and clubs are predators plain and simple, showing these people any sort of weakness, even just perceived weakness, just makes them think they’ve got an easy mark.

I have a friend who tried to back out of a confrontation with a wanker just some weeks ago, he told the fella he didn’t want any trouble and the moment the words left his mouth, the guy decked him. The bouncers luckily intervened, but not before the wanker yanked him by his hair and rained punch after punch until he had a nasty cut on his cheek pissing blood.

If you know a fight is about to happen, for god’s sake, knock him cold before he does the same to you and then get the hell out of the area. The alternative is you rely on the hopefully good nature of the guy who is convincing himself that your mug would look better broken and bleeding.

67

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Sorry but that part of “turning the other cheek” is absolutely not true, people will not think more highly of you. It’s probably a sad by product of more primitive times, but the fact of the matter is if you walk away or “take the higher path” in a confrontation in a club/pub, everyone who is on looking, especially the person who is trying to intimidate you, will think you are weak/backing down. Women will think you are a pussy, and men will mark you for an easy target.

I’m not suggesting you try to fight everyone who tries to intimidate you, but if this is happening in a place you frequent/want to frequent and it’s just one guy trying to out you, you are probably better off in the long run by slotting him while he’s talking.[/quote]

Eh, maybe, maybe not but you have to ask yourself, what is more important, having a bunch of random strangers at some bar (and probably even then only a percentage of them) think you’re tough, or going home to your bed, and resuming your life the next day? Maybe in Australia or Spain having someone talk smack to you is legal justification to punch them in the face, but here in the states that’s called assault and you are not only likely to get kicked out of the bar, but quite possibly face legal ramifications.

If you were in the middle of some abandoned parking lot, are with someone who you have to protect and are jumped, then yeah, go to town on them; in some cases you must revert to physical violence in order to survive. But in a crowded place like a bar there are sure to be onlookers and bouncers who are going to see you as the attacker/problem (or at the very least equally guilty as the other guy) and are going to relay that observation to the police when they show up. And since all the other person did was say intimidating/mean things to you, you’re going to have a hard time arguing that your actions were justified.

If this girl is the type who thinks less of you for walking away from someone trying to bully you, and “taking the high road”, then find another girl, there are plenty more of them out there. Do you really think she’s going to wait around for you while you’re in jail for manslaughter because you didn’t back down, chose to clock this guy in the face, only to have him fall and hit his head on the ground thus resulting in his death (happened not too long ago at a bar near me)? Hell no, she’ll move on to the next guy in no time flat. Then what are you left with?[/quote]

Thank to God,we can still have a bit of fun here in Croatia.

68

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Ranzo wrote:
Yeah best advice ever is don’t go to bars or a hooker house. Stay away from degenerates and you wont have to deal with thier crap.[/quote]

Dont go to bars or hooker house??!! And do what? Jerk off to internet porn?? And live a long, boring ascetic life?? [/quote]

Balbos had the post here that’s ever been said in this forum.

Ever.
[/quote]
:))

[/quote]

Hmm… yeah so Serbian gangsters star in Dutch insurance commercials?^^
(this had been quite edited btw, can’t remember the music being like that when I saw it on tv)

69

[quote]Kardash wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Ranzo wrote:
Yeah best advice ever is don’t go to bars or a hooker house. Stay away from degenerates and you wont have to deal with thier crap.[/quote]

Dont go to bars or hooker house??!! And do what? Jerk off to internet porn?? And live a long, boring ascetic life?? [/quote]

Balbos had the post here that’s ever been said in this forum.

Ever.
[/quote]
:))

[/quote]

Hmm… yeah so Serbian gangsters star in Dutch insurance commercials?^^
(this had been quite edited btw, can’t remember the music being like that when I saw it on tv)
[/quote]

if youre dutch,stick to tulips gardening & leave the fighting stuff to us ;))

70

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Reaction is always slower than action and limits your choices.The best type of self-defense is once you recognize the threat and cant avoid it,is to take the fight to the aggresor and push him into reacting himself to the attack and making mistakes in your area of expertise.

Bottom line,if you dont run away,better attack first with all your ferocity and power and dont stop until you eliminate the threat.Waiting to be attacked is the worst option= your options are limited ,you simply react in the moment and if you make mistake,you are technicaly dead. [/quote]

This is tactically very true. The trick is being able to convey to the authorities/courtroom that you were in imminent danger of being attacked and therefore your violent actions were warranted.

In order to justify such actions usually your attacker must have had the capability to do your harm, have expressed the will to do so, and have the opportunity to do so. If any of the above criteria were not met, you are likely going to be found guilty of assault (at least here in the States).

There are also situations where there is a disparity of force (such as multiple assailants, a very large male vs a small female or child, a weapon, etc…) which make it easier to justify such actions.

You have to be able to convey the idea that your life or saftey was in immediate jeopordy and you made an action out of necessity father than pride.

71

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Reaction is always slower than action and limits your choices.The best type of self-defense is once you recognize the threat and cant avoid it,is to take the fight to the aggresor and push him into reacting himself to the attack and making mistakes in your area of expertise.

Bottom line,if you dont run away,better attack first with all your ferocity and power and dont stop until you eliminate the threat.Waiting to be attacked is the worst option= your options are limited ,you simply react in the moment and if you make mistake,you are technicaly dead. [/quote]

This is tactically very true. The trick is being able to convey to the authorities/courtroom that you were in imminent danger of being attacked and therefore your violent actions were warranted.

In order to justify such actions usually your attacker must have had the capability to do your harm, have expressed the will to do so, and have the opportunity to do so. If any of the above criteria were not met, you are likely going to be found guilty of assault (at least here in the States).

There are also situations where there is a disparity of force (such as multiple assailants, a very large male vs a small female or child, a weapon, etc…) which make it easier to justify such actions.

You have to be able to convey the idea that your life or saftey was in immediate jeopordy and you made an action out of necessity father than pride.[/quote]

well,you know,you can call me crazy,but personaly I prefer an ugly trial over my own beautiful funeral with family & friends all elegant in black suits and stuff.

If threat happen not to be so dangerous,you can downplay your response as you go.Sometimes just attacking ferouciously makes attackers back off,run,etc.

Who says you are gonna see tomorow even if you are the best self-defence expert? The chances might just not be in your favour.

If self-defence practice doensnt prepare you physicaly/psychologicaly/tacticaly for the worst what can happen,then why bother with it?

72

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Reaction is always slower than action and limits your choices.The best type of self-defense is once you recognize the threat and cant avoid it,is to take the fight to the aggresor and push him into reacting himself to the attack and making mistakes in your area of expertise.

Bottom line,if you dont run away,better attack first with all your ferocity and power and dont stop until you eliminate the threat.Waiting to be attacked is the worst option= your options are limited ,you simply react in the moment and if you make mistake,you are technicaly dead. [/quote]

This is tactically very true. The trick is being able to convey to the authorities/courtroom that you were in imminent danger of being attacked and therefore your violent actions were warranted.

In order to justify such actions usually your attacker must have had the capability to do your harm, have expressed the will to do so, and have the opportunity to do so. If any of the above criteria were not met, you are likely going to be found guilty of assault (at least here in the States).

There are also situations where there is a disparity of force (such as multiple assailants, a very large male vs a small female or child, a weapon, etc…) which make it easier to justify such actions.

You have to be able to convey the idea that your life or saftey was in immediate jeopordy and you made an action out of necessity father than pride.[/quote]

well,you know,you can call me crazy,but personaly I prefer an ugly trial over my own beautiful funeral with family & friends all elegant in black suits and stuff.

If threat happen not to be so dangerous,you can downplay your response as you go.Sometimes just attacking ferouciously makes attackers back off,run,etc.

Who says you are gonna see tomorow even if you are the best self-defence expert? The chances might just not be in your favour.

If self-defence practice doensnt prepare you physicaly/psychologicaly/tacticaly for the worst what can happen,then why bother with it? [/quote]

Training for the worst case scenario is crucial, but it should also teach you about appropriate levels of force.

Knowing what justifies different levels of force will be crucial in dealing with the second attack (the one from the legal system).

What the OP experienced does not justify physical force, he handled it as he should have.

73

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Reaction is always slower than action and limits your choices.The best type of self-defense is once you recognize the threat and cant avoid it,is to take the fight to the aggresor and push him into reacting himself to the attack and making mistakes in your area of expertise.

Bottom line,if you dont run away,better attack first with all your ferocity and power and dont stop until you eliminate the threat.Waiting to be attacked is the worst option= your options are limited ,you simply react in the moment and if you make mistake,you are technicaly dead. [/quote]

This is tactically very true. The trick is being able to convey to the authorities/courtroom that you were in imminent danger of being attacked and therefore your violent actions were warranted.

In order to justify such actions usually your attacker must have had the capability to do your harm, have expressed the will to do so, and have the opportunity to do so. If any of the above criteria were not met, you are likely going to be found guilty of assault (at least here in the States).

There are also situations where there is a disparity of force (such as multiple assailants, a very large male vs a small female or child, a weapon, etc…) which make it easier to justify such actions.

You have to be able to convey the idea that your life or saftey was in immediate jeopordy and you made an action out of necessity father than pride.[/quote]

well,you know,you can call me crazy,but personaly I prefer an ugly trial over my own beautiful funeral with family & friends all elegant in black suits and stuff.

If threat happen not to be so dangerous,you can downplay your response as you go.Sometimes just attacking ferouciously makes attackers back off,run,etc.

Who says you are gonna see tomorow even if you are the best self-defence expert? The chances might just not be in your favour.

If self-defence practice doensnt prepare you physicaly/psychologicaly/tacticaly for the worst what can happen,then why bother with it? [/quote]

Training for the worst case scenario is crucial, but it should also teach you about appropriate levels of force.

Knowing what justifies different levels of force will be crucial in dealing with the second attack (the one from the legal system).

What the OP experienced does not justify physical force, he handled it as he should have. [/quote]

Are you talking about surviving-serious-attack-self-defence applied by average skinny-fat unathletic person or competent-fighter-pushing-away-swearing-legless-drunk-at hamburger joint 4 am Saturday night?

Should I tell the attacker with bottle/knife/bar to take time out while I call my lawyer to describe the situation and wait for HIS advice about appropriate force to apply to the situation?

Have YOU ever been attacked yourself seriously?

74

Balbos, I’m not sure what you’re arguing here.

While few people are going to argue that the best defense is a strong offense, you’re still going to probably have to justify the force you’re using if the cops come. Getting locked up for aggravated assault is really, really fucking easy in America. Your laws may be more lax than ours, I’m not sure.

But to one point - I do kinda know what you’re talking about. If you’re in that sort of underworld and you’re regularly around degenerates, you’re much less averse to using physical violence, especially when you kind of know the guys or who they are, and you can’t really back down because you’re in a bar that you go to all the time and you’re in that different world model.

What we’re talking about is self-defense primarily here, Balbos. The world you are talking about is NOT that. It’s streetfighting. I been there, done it. There are certainly situations where you or I would hit first and say “Fuck it,” but that’s because we’re a bit of a different kinda person than your average husband and father who just wants to get back to his family and, if he can avoid the situation at all, he will.

I’ve said it often here - I espouse walking away and getting out before the shit starts, but goddamned if I follow it. I pretty much spend all my time at bars (at least just on the weekends now, which is a big change from before) and I have been in a number of good fights. I hang out with degenerates, drunks, drug dealers, drug doers, and streetfighters, and the occasional guy who’s worse than that. I went for a long stretch - maybe 7 years - without a serious confrontation, but that streak ended last spring.

I get into the monkey dance. If a guy calls me a cunt, I’m not walking away. If he pushes me, bets are off and I’m gettin at you. I have called guys out for staring at me. I have escalated otherwise calm situations because I’m an asshole.

Only now, at 27, am I starting to get away from that style of acting, mostly because I am DEATHLY fucking afraid of getting arrested.

So Balbos, I know where you’re coming from dude, but we’re not talking about THAT particular world model. We’re talking average, non-scumbag, non-provoked, self defense here. And THAT is the world where attacking hard and heavy, and if you lose, coming back later with a bat, is not the norm.

75

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Balbos, I’m not sure what you’re arguing here.

While few people are going to argue that the best defense is a strong offense, you’re still going to probably have to justify the force you’re using if the cops come. Getting locked up for aggravated assault is really, really fucking easy in America. Your laws may be more lax than ours, I’m not sure.

But to one point - I do kinda know what you’re talking about. If you’re in that sort of underworld and you’re regularly around degenerates, you’re much less averse to using physical violence, especially when you kind of know the guys or who they are, and you can’t really back down because you’re in a bar that you go to all the time and you’re in that different world model.

What we’re talking about is self-defense primarily here, Balbos. The world you are talking about is NOT that. It’s streetfighting. I been there, done it. There are certainly situations where you or I would hit first and say “Fuck it,” but that’s because we’re a bit of a different kinda person than your average husband and father who just wants to get back to his family and, if he can avoid the situation at all, he will.

I’ve said it often here - I espouse walking away and getting out before the shit starts, but goddamned if I follow it. I pretty much spend all my time at bars (at least just on the weekends now, which is a big change from before) and I have been in a number of good fights. I hang out with degenerates, drunks, drug dealers, drug doers, and streetfighters, and the occasional guy who’s worse than that. I went for a long stretch - maybe 7 years - without a serious confrontation, but that streak ended last spring.

I get into the monkey dance. If a guy calls me a cunt, I’m not walking away. If he pushes me, bets are off and I’m gettin at you. I have called guys out for staring at me. I have escalated otherwise calm situations because I’m an asshole.

Only now, at 27, am I starting to get away from that style of acting, mostly because I am DEATHLY fucking afraid of getting arrested.

So Balbos, I know where you’re coming from dude, but we’re not talking about THAT particular world model. We’re talking average, non-scumbag, non-provoked, self defense here. And THAT is the world where attacking hard and heavy, and if you lose, coming back later with a bat, is not the norm.[/quote]

I appreciate your thoughts,Irish,but hear me out.
I am not talking from my personal position on self-defence.To be honest,I see myself on the other side as attacker,rather than someone defending himself.I grew up in rough neibourhood,and from age 14 til 19 there was long bloody war in my country (1990.-1995. bombs,snipers,cutting throats,all the show),I was involved in fighting as football hooligan for over a decade,worked as a bouncer from 2001.,etc.I faced criminal charges for inflicting heavy injuries,charged for possession of tear-gas,bats,etc.I participated and saw so much violence.This gives me very good perspective on how should AVERAGE person react to being attacked.Both from safety & legal issues.
If youre normal person with no criminal record and you get attacked by some criminal thug gunning for your wallet or just wanting to kick your head in for a bit of fun and you kick the shit out of him and its your word against his,you got 99 % nothing to worry about.
What average person being attacked do have to worry about is what happens if he/she loses.
I dont have much trust in violent people sparing the victims…I have seen people battered down badly.

So,to average people being attacked,I advise this-either run like hell (best option) or fight hard & make sure you win or else…
So,

76

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Reaction is always slower than action and limits your choices.The best type of self-defense is once you recognize the threat and cant avoid it,is to take the fight to the aggresor and push him into reacting himself to the attack and making mistakes in your area of expertise.

Bottom line,if you dont run away,better attack first with all your ferocity and power and dont stop until you eliminate the threat.Waiting to be attacked is the worst option= your options are limited ,you simply react in the moment and if you make mistake,you are technicaly dead. [/quote]

This is tactically very true. The trick is being able to convey to the authorities/courtroom that you were in imminent danger of being attacked and therefore your violent actions were warranted.

In order to justify such actions usually your attacker must have had the capability to do your harm, have expressed the will to do so, and have the opportunity to do so. If any of the above criteria were not met, you are likely going to be found guilty of assault (at least here in the States).

There are also situations where there is a disparity of force (such as multiple assailants, a very large male vs a small female or child, a weapon, etc…) which make it easier to justify such actions.

You have to be able to convey the idea that your life or saftey was in immediate jeopordy and you made an action out of necessity father than pride.[/quote]

well,you know,you can call me crazy,but personaly I prefer an ugly trial over my own beautiful funeral with family & friends all elegant in black suits and stuff.

If threat happen not to be so dangerous,you can downplay your response as you go.Sometimes just attacking ferouciously makes attackers back off,run,etc.

Who says you are gonna see tomorow even if you are the best self-defence expert? The chances might just not be in your favour.

If self-defence practice doensnt prepare you physicaly/psychologicaly/tacticaly for the worst what can happen,then why bother with it? [/quote]

Training for the worst case scenario is crucial, but it should also teach you about appropriate levels of force.

Knowing what justifies different levels of force will be crucial in dealing with the second attack (the one from the legal system).

What the OP experienced does not justify physical force, he handled it as he should have. [/quote]

Are you talking about surviving-serious-attack-self-defence applied by average skinny-fat unathletic person or competent-fighter-pushing-away-swearing-legless-drunk-at hamburger joint 4 am Saturday night?

Should I tell the attacker with bottle/knife/bar to take time out while I call my lawyer to describe the situation and wait for HIS advice about appropriate force to apply to the situation?

Have YOU ever been attacked yourself seriously? [/quote]

Do you actually read my posts or do you just look for something to argue about? Did you read the original post in this thread?

I am not, nor have I ever suggested that there aren’t situations where physical violence is necessary for one’s survival. The situation that the op mentioned was not such a situation though illustrated by the fact that he didn’t use physical violence and was still able to make a thread here telling about it.

77

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]SKELAC wrote:
Reaction is always slower than action and limits your choices.The best type of self-defense is once you recognize the threat and cant avoid it,is to take the fight to the aggresor and push him into reacting himself to the attack and making mistakes in your area of expertise.

Bottom line,if you dont run away,better attack first with all your ferocity and power and dont stop until you eliminate the threat.Waiting to be attacked is the worst option= your options are limited ,you simply react in the moment and if you make mistake,you are technicaly dead. [/quote]

This is tactically very true. The trick is being able to convey to the authorities/courtroom that you were in imminent danger of being attacked and therefore your violent actions were warranted.

In order to justify such actions usually your attacker must have had the capability to do your harm, have expressed the will to do so, and have the opportunity to do so. If any of the above criteria were not met, you are likely going to be found guilty of assault (at least here in the States).

There are also situations where there is a disparity of force (such as multiple assailants, a very large male vs a small female or child, a weapon, etc…) which make it easier to justify such actions.

You have to be able to convey the idea that your life or saftey was in immediate jeopordy and you made an action out of necessity father than pride.[/quote]

well,you know,you can call me crazy,but personaly I prefer an ugly trial over my own beautiful funeral with family & friends all elegant in black suits and stuff.

If threat happen not to be so dangerous,you can downplay your response as you go.Sometimes just attacking ferouciously makes attackers back off,run,etc.

Who says you are gonna see tomorow even if you are the best self-defence expert? The chances might just not be in your favour.

If self-defence practice doensnt prepare you physicaly/psychologicaly/tacticaly for the worst what can happen,then why bother with it? [/quote]

Training for the worst case scenario is crucial, but it should also teach you about appropriate levels of force.

Knowing what justifies different levels of force will be crucial in dealing with the second attack (the one from the legal system).

What the OP experienced does not justify physical force, he handled it as he should have. [/quote]

Are you talking about surviving-serious-attack-self-defence applied by average skinny-fat unathletic person or competent-fighter-pushing-away-swearing-legless-drunk-at hamburger joint 4 am Saturday night?

Should I tell the attacker with bottle/knife/bar to take time out while I call my lawyer to describe the situation and wait for HIS advice about appropriate force to apply to the situation?

Have YOU ever been attacked yourself seriously? [/quote]

Do you actually read my posts or do you just look for something to argue about? Did you read the original post in this thread?

I am not, nor have I ever suggested that there aren’t situations where physical violence is necessary for one’s survival. The situation that the op mentioned was not such a situation though illustrated by the fact that he didn’t use physical violence and was still able to make a thread here telling about it.
[/quote]

The thread developed into discussing other aspects of self-defence beyond OP first post.

Its you WHO started arguing by quoting my posts-I only respond.Now you quote my posts and youre not even adressing what I posted.

Read my posts.I have personal experience of violence around me as a result of working on & off as a professional bouncer for a decade.This gives a lot of weight to my posts.And what about YOU? Where your knowledge of violence and self-defence comes FROM?

I dont know you and your experiences & I respect your contribution to your thread.But I know inside out all aspects of confrontation in practice,believe me.
Theory of it is one thing,but actual dangers,explosive escalation of it is OTHER thing.

78

It seems to me you are both describing the same shit and just aren’t getting along; and, when it comes to the level of force needed, I have always found the Krav Maga philosophy to pretty much address that as well as it could be.

79

Krav says until the threat is neutralised. The issue being discussed is if seeing some person(s) or situation that looks dangerous and you just avoid it altogether so that you don’t have to actually fight is self defense or not.

My take is that it is in the realm of defending yourself by just not being there kind of like slipping a punch or not putting your hand down when swinging a hammer etc… It is not self defense as many describe it with the thought of you actually using a technique or beating someone sensless after they attacked you.

So to sum it up if you aren’t there or avoid the situation you are defended from the situation, if it becomes unavoidable or taken by suprise then you will have to use self defense blocks and punches.

80

[quote]IRONRAM wrote:
It seems to me you are both describing the same shit and just aren’t getting along; and, when it comes to the level of force needed, I have always found the Krav Maga philosophy to pretty much address that as well as it could be.[/quote]

Most posters here seem to live in fantasy world.They see themselves as fearless,competent rational self-defence experts capable of carefuly moderating amount of force needed and manage the situation.And not only this,they recommend the same to others.

My observation is that most people just shit their pants and run away in panic.Often leaving friends and family members behind.
Most people actually lack the level of force needed to defend themselves and end up in hospital or graveyard.They were already overpowered to begin with.

Well,dont take my word for it.Just check some videos online of the actual violence and self-defence applied.