Feminists Blaming the Media

Off Topic
61

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I am a feminist but for me that just means I want equal opportunity. Nothing more. If I can’t do the job don’t hire me. Just give me a fair shot.
I know a lot of women that feel that way. Feminist has become such a dirty word. BUT, … so some of you may want to know, for those of us today that are my kind of feminist, it just means we want a chance and not that we are not anti-men. Love men. Men are good. Just about the opportunities!p
=)

p.s. I am only speaking for myself and those friends of mine that feel the same. I am pretty sure there are all kinds of Feminists out there these days.
[/quote]

This is the view of feminism I’ve always had.

Somewhere along the way feminism got hijacked by radicalism.
[/quote]

True I think the women are forgetting that men get criticized for their looks too. If you’re going to have a job in a spot light then you have to expect people to take shots at you for everything.

^This was more of a comment about the video posted.

I’m not entirely convinced that the reason there are less women in some of the careers listed in the video is because of influences outside of a women’s/girl’s own interests/desires.

There are just way too many factors influencing a persons decisions/life to say it’s anyone thing. imo

[/quote]

I love my dad. … I do. He passed in September, but in High School I wanted to take Engineering because I wanted to be an architect. Now my dad was an old school Marine. I was not allowed to take the class because so many boys wanted to take the class. Can you even imagine? I of course asked my Dad and Mom about it and I love my dad, but he said, “It’s not really a girls job. Take something else.”
Can you even imagine!!!
Unfortunately I was not strong enough on my own to push for it.

[/quote]

I always tell my daughter she can do what any guy can do and better. I don’t ever want her to think less of herself for being a female. I tell theres nothing she can’t do. [/quote]

I understanding where you are coming from but there is no reason to be derogatory towards boys. She can do anything she puts her mind to, is a good message. She is better than boys is not. The second message is sexist.[/quote]

Well, we live in a society where its often said, “oh, you can’t do this or that, cause your a girl” I’m teaching her she can do whatever she wants and be better than others. its not being sexist. I only meant, that just cause someone is a boy, doesn’t mean hes better at something than you. if you find it sexist, tough shit.[/quote]
I see what you are saying. You are right, just because someone is a guy or girl does not mean they are necessarily better at __________.

You probably have noticed it is acceptable now to bash men, pretty common in commercials. It is something I am seeing in some of my college students. Just pointing put that some of the little things people say have bigger consequences. Not doubting your parenting abilities.

62

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I am a feminist but for me that just means I want equal opportunity. Nothing more. If I can’t do the job don’t hire me. Just give me a fair shot.
I know a lot of women that feel that way. Feminist has become such a dirty word. BUT, … so some of you may want to know, for those of us today that are my kind of feminist, it just means we want a chance and not that we are not anti-men. Love men. Men are good. Just about the opportunities!p
=)

p.s. I am only speaking for myself and those friends of mine that feel the same. I am pretty sure there are all kinds of Feminists out there these days.
[/quote]

This is the view of feminism I’ve always had.

Somewhere along the way feminism got hijacked by radicalism.
[/quote]

True I think the women are forgetting that men get criticized for their looks too. If you’re going to have a job in a spot light then you have to expect people to take shots at you for everything.

^This was more of a comment about the video posted.

I’m not entirely convinced that the reason there are less women in some of the careers listed in the video is because of influences outside of a women’s/girl’s own interests/desires.

There are just way too many factors influencing a persons decisions/life to say it’s anyone thing. imo

[/quote]

I love my dad. … I do. He passed in September, but in High School I wanted to take Engineering because I wanted to be an architect. Now my dad was an old school Marine. I was not allowed to take the class because so many boys wanted to take the class. Can you even imagine? I of course asked my Dad and Mom about it and I love my dad, but he said, “It’s not really a girls job. Take something else.”
Can you even imagine!!!
Unfortunately I was not strong enough on my own to push for it.

[/quote]

I always tell my daughter she can do what any guy can do and better. I don’t ever want her to think less of herself for being a female. I tell theres nothing she can’t do. [/quote]

I understanding where you are coming from but there is no reason to be derogatory towards boys. She can do anything she puts her mind to, is a good message. She is better than boys is not. The second message is sexist.[/quote]

Well, we live in a society where its often said, “oh, you can’t do this or that, cause your a girl” I’m teaching her she can do whatever she wants and be better than others. its not being sexist. I only meant, that just cause someone is a boy, doesn’t mean hes better at something than you. if you find it sexist, tough shit.[/quote]

I see what you are saying. You are right, just because someone is a guy or girl does not mean they are necessarily better at __________.

You probably have noticed it is acceptable now to bash men, pretty common in commercials. It is something I am seeing in some of my college students. Just pointing put that some of the little things people say have bigger consequences. Not doubting your parenting abilities.

63

[/quote]

“Mr Schettino, who is being held in custody in Grosseto on the mainland and faces up to 15 years in prison, allegedly left the cruise ship in a lifeboat well before hundreds of passengers, including women and children, had managed to escape.”

Schettino is the captain btw.

That’s the guy in your quote. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Not true! Apparently the Captain ‘tripped and fell into a lifeboat’. :slight_smile:

64

Look at all these bitches out of the kitchen!

Shoo, ladies! Log off and be good girls.

65

[quote]nocturnus wrote:

[quote] CH wrote:
“Mr Schettino, who is being held in custody in Grosseto on the mainland and faces up to 15 years in prison, allegedly left the cruise ship in a lifeboat well before hundreds of passengers, including women and children, had managed to escape.”

Schettino is the captain btw.

That’s the guy in your quote. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Not true! Apparently the Captain ‘tripped and fell into a lifeboat’. :-)[/quote]

LOL

Of course, that happened to this guy I know, only it involved a naked women tripping.

66

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
People always want an easier way of doing things a magic answer or pill or formula or whatever and as a last resort an excuse so we don’t have to do the work.
[/quote]There is no magic pill or answer, but a lot of people confuse reason with excuse. There is always reason.
[/quote]

Yep I agree. Like thinking motive is the same as excuse.
[/quote]

Yep. And people find all sorts of good reasons to excuse themselves and make themselves feel better about their poor decisions and their lack of conscience.[/quote]You talking generally or is that directed at me? That’s not what I meant by reason.

67

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]Charlie Horse wrote:
People always want an easier way of doing things a magic answer or pill or formula or whatever and as a last resort an excuse so we don’t have to do the work.
[/quote]There is no magic pill or answer, but a lot of people confuse reason with excuse. There is always reason.
[/quote]

Yep I agree. Like thinking motive is the same as excuse.
[/quote]

Yep. And people find all sorts of good reasons to excuse themselves and make themselves feel better about their poor decisions and their lack of conscience.[/quote]You talking generally or is that directed at me? That’s not what I meant by reason.
[/quote]

Pretty sure she means generally.

68

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]digitalairair wrote:
I applaud if a woman wants to be a physicist. I find it sexy. [/quote]

I think one of the main reasons feminism continues to be relevant is because of the sentiment expressed in the above quote. The institutional walls preventing women from advancing in their careers have in many (most?) cases fallen. Pay, adjusted for all factors, has mostly been equalized. Women are making up an ever increasing percentage of the executive ranks. Women now outnumber men in college.

But, if she decides to become a physicist then all her educational achievements have been reduced to, “that’s sexy”. I doubt Oppenheimer got the same comment when he was contemplating his career direction.

As long as men continue to reduce woman to their biology (or perhaps, how a woman’s biology causes a man’s pants to rise), women are going to feel the need to rally under a common banner.

[/quote]

“that’s sexy” to me isn’t a reductionist term or way to describe a woman nor is it a reduction in my sentimentality. I think it’s the opposite. “That’s sexy” to me is an umbrella opened up by that woman when she becomes a physicist.

That’s funny because i think most feminists rally because they fail to recognize and come to peace with biology. I think they need to reduce themselves even more.

69

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

I always tell my daughter she can do what any guy can do and better. I don’t ever want her to think less of herself for being a female. I tell theres nothing she can’t do. [/quote]

Even become an under age stripper?

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/music_movies_girls_life/i_finally_look_like_brad_pitt_from_fight_club?id=5006434&pageNo=7 [/quote]

LOL

70

The majority of women are either unattractive or unremarkable and are sexually invisible to men. Men’s biological urges are not relevant to most interactions with women. To seriously suggest it is (not sure if serious…) tells me you are too young and inexperienced to have observed the world outside your peers.

If you think that’s crap, take a look around at the grocery store or a professional environment and you’ll see examples of some younger attractive women and an abundance of ‘other’ women.

Most of my superiors are straight women, so my sexuality is irrelevant to them also.

71

[quote]debraD wrote:
The majority of women are either unattractive or unremarkable and are sexually invisible to men. Men’s biological urges are not relevant to most interactions with women. To seriously suggest it is (not sure if serious…) tells me you are too young and inexperienced to have observed the world outside your peers.

If you think that’s crap, take a look around at the grocery store or a professional environment and you’ll see examples of some younger attractive women and an abundance of ‘other’ women.

Most of my superiors are straight women, so my sexuality is irrelevant to them also.[/quote]

When I walk down the street and pass by females, the first thought is ALWAYS “can i fuck her”.

72

[quote]debraD wrote:
The majority of women are either unattractive or unremarkable and are sexually invisible to men. Men’s biological urges are not relevant to most interactions with women. To seriously suggest it is (not sure if serious…) tells me you are too young and inexperienced to have observed the world outside your peers.

If you think that’s crap, take a look around at the grocery store or a professional environment and you’ll see examples of some younger attractive women and an abundance of ‘other’ women.

Most of my superiors are straight women, so my sexuality is irrelevant to them also.[/quote]
The biology thing just had to do with how we treat women we’re attracted to (and how they want to be treated) and how we stereotype the opposite sex based on our experiences with them. Obviously when attraction isn’t an issue it’s easier to be objective. That’s not the only reason. There are many, and they are going to differ from person to person. Not justifying, that’s just the way it is.

73

Sex and race should never be on a job application. Every employee should be graded against the set of standards REQUIRED to do the job. Inform the employee about the standards. Measure the employee against the standards. Promote/fire accordingly.

74

[quote]limburg wrote:
Sex and race should never be on a job application. Every employee should be graded against the set of standards REQUIRED to do the job. Inform the employee about the standards. Measure the employee against the standards. Promote/fire accordingly.[/quote]

I think everyone agrees with that except some of the male posters are saying they can’t be objective when they are attracted to the women.

I say bs! yes they can, they just don’t want to be objective. lol

Summary of thread/argument/discussion?

75

[quote]limburg wrote:
Sex and race should never be on a job application. Every employee should be graded against the set of standards REQUIRED to do the job. Inform the employee about the standards. Measure the employee against the standards. Promote/fire accordingly.[/quote]

x2/ end of thread.

76

I really like Wendy McElroy and visit her site often. She considers herself a femminist. This ia link to her I Femminist site…there is a link to her editorials in the top bar. I don’t care for ‘tags’ like femminist, but her perspective is one I strongly agree with.

News - ifeminists.com

77

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:

[quote]limburg wrote:
Sex and race should never be on a job application. Every employee should be graded against the set of standards REQUIRED to do the job. Inform the employee about the standards. Measure the employee against the standards. Promote/fire accordingly.[/quote]

x2/ end of thread. [/quote]

when I used to be in orchestra, some auditions were blind ones.

The musicians played behind curtains and were judged solely on the music.

But body language plays a part in music performing though. I mean if u get a concert master who has poor body language he probably won’t lead well and the audience probably won’t be as pleased. So i won’t take away ALL of physical appearances because the body and its applications plays a big role in many jobs.

Maybe we should at least see the shadows.

78

I said this in another thread on the topic awhile back…

"My concern with women’s issues has nothing to do with hating men, or an assertion that men and women are the same, or that the idea that a gender neutral world is possible, or even desirable. I do see that women are more vulnerable, in all sorts of ways. This vulnerability is more evident in cultures where women continue to be seen as inferior, and yes, that sometimes happens here in the western world. If you want proof, go read some of the threads in SAMA.

We have passed anti-discrimination laws and policies in this country that have been pretty effective in eliminating most of the sex-related discrimination in the schools, and much of it in the workplace. Some of those policies even now favor women in ways that are not always fair, so the pendulum swings. You can say the same thing about affirmative action, but that’s another topic. The women’s movement, similar to the success of the labor movement, has resulted in laws and policies that now make unions generally unnecessary, IMO. That doesn’t mean that women are not still vulnerable, or that women who are concerned with that are, to quote Rush Limbaugh “femi-nazis”. It might make it simpler to think in these terms, letting the people on the fringes inform your opinions, but it won’t make it accurate.

In general terms, men and women are different and that’s a good thing. In an ideal world, they complement each other. These people espousing gender neutral parenting are kooks. They don’t represent the average feminist. I love men, but I’ll continue to be concerned about the treatment of women, particularly in developing countries and in the Middle East. If you don’t see something wrong with the abortion of 163 million little girls, over the past three decades, then you have a bigger problem than these kooks in the original article."

I might add, language is important. I recently read an article about how many newspapers will still use the term “Domestic Disturbance” to describe all sort of very violent crime against women. In my view, a “Domestic Disturbance” is my neighbor mowing his lawn at 7:00 am. I’d use a different term if he just beat the hell out of his wife. At the least, we should be using the term “Domestic Violence” or just plain “Assualt and Battery”. Some of these things may seem subtle, but the reinforce a view that this type of thing is not a big deal.

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I should add, I was a writer for a feminist blog at one time. I think I was the token conservative woman on the panel, which is partly why they asked me. Sort of like Elizabeth Hasselbeck on The View LOL! It turned out to be difficult, because most of the women were coming down on the opposite side of many of the issues. My political views have very, very little in common with those espoused by groups like NOW (think of Gloria Steinem with her famous “Women need men like fish need bicycles”) or Planned Parenthood.

A lot of what people wanted involved the support of pro-choice related issues, and often things that had a more socialized slant like government funded daycare. These views have become synonymous with the term “feminist” and that shouldn’t be so.

Also, I frequently felt there was an undercurrent that undermined women who wanted to be “JUST a mom”. - There’s the language thing again. Women often do this to themselves. No wonder there are so many women who feel marginalized or conflicted when they choose to stay home raising kids.

The more radicalized wing of modern feminism hasn’t done men any favors either. Many of the best of men have a fairly strong desire to provide for and protect women and children. I’d argue for a biological basis to this, but you might believe it’s just old-fashioned chivalry. Regardless, It’s too bad that many men now wonder if those impulses are no longer valued, or somehow make them at best chauvinists, and at worst misogynists.

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Awesome posts Puffy. :slight_smile:

You are much better at explaining my feelings about feminism. lol