Feedback on This 531 Program

Bigger Stronger Leaner Jim Wendler 5/3/1 Coaching
1

I need some guidance on my programming. I have only focused on powerlifting for the last 8 months, doing the original 531 BBB the whole time. Been training lame ass bodybuilding splits 4 years prior to that.

How does this look? Theres a few fluffy isolations inthere, but i´ve kept it to a minimum (my calves are really small by nature). I want to get stronger in the big 3, especially the squat, which is falling behind the other lifts.

I´m only doing Joker sets, when I feel like I have a good day, and no FSL on DL day.

Squat 531 + Joker + FSL
DL 5x5 80%
RDL 4x10-12
Standing BB Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

BP 531 Joker FSL
Press 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
DB Row 3x20
Chins supersets 6x10

DL 531 Joker
Squat 5x5 80%
Leg Press 4x10
Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

Press 531 Joker FSL
BP 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
Seated Low Row 3x10
Lat Raise 3x15
Chins supersets 6x10

2

[quote]Congokurt wrote:
I need some guidance on my programming. I have only focused on powerlifting for the last 8 months, doing the original 531 BBB the whole time. Been training lame ass bodybuilding splits 4 years prior to that.

How does this look? Theres a few fluffy isolations inthere, but i�´ve kept it to a minimum (my calves are really small by nature). I want to get stronger in the big 3, especially the squat, which is falling behind the other lifts.

I�´m only doing Joker sets, when I feel like I have a good day, and no FSL on DL day.

Squat 531 + Joker + FSL
DL 5x5 80%
RDL 4x10-12
Standing BB Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

BP 531 Joker FSL
Press 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
DB Row 3x20
Chins supersets 6x10

DL 531 Joker
Squat 5x5 80%
Leg Press 4x10
Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

Press 531 Joker FSL
BP 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
Seated Low Row 3x10
Lat Raise 3x15
Chins supersets 6x10
[/quote]

Get rid of the Jokers, first of all. They are never intended to be programmed in, and should rarely be performed.

The 5x5 at 80%, where did that come from? Get rid of that, too. You are missing the point of the main sets if you think you can add 25 reps at 80% for a different lift on the same day AND do FSL sets.

Try something like this:

-Main lift, push last set hard - all reps explosive as possible, but controlled
-FSL at 5x5 - all reps explosive as possible, but controlled
-One big accessory movement for 50+/- reps (Rows, chins, RDLs, Step-ups, lunges)
-Curls on upper body days
-Done

If you are recovering well and kicking ass with this, then add an isolation movement strictly for pump, no ego training. Remember the importance of eating for size and strength. Don’t assume that you just aren’t doing enough work in the gym.

Good luck.

3

[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:

[quote]Congokurt wrote:
I need some guidance on my programming. I have only focused on powerlifting for the last 8 months, doing the original 531 BBB the whole time. Been training lame ass bodybuilding splits 4 years prior to that.

How does this look? Theres a few fluffy isolations inthere, but i�?�´ve kept it to a minimum (my calves are really small by nature). I want to get stronger in the big 3, especially the squat, which is falling behind the other lifts.

I�?�´m only doing Joker sets, when I feel like I have a good day, and no FSL on DL day.

Squat 531 + Joker + FSL
DL 5x5 80%
RDL 4x10-12
Standing BB Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

BP 531 Joker FSL
Press 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
DB Row 3x20
Chins supersets 6x10

DL 531 Joker
Squat 5x5 80%
Leg Press 4x10
Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

Press 531 Joker FSL
BP 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
Seated Low Row 3x10
Lat Raise 3x15
Chins supersets 6x10
[/quote]

Get rid of the Jokers, first of all. They are never intended to be programmed in, and should rarely be performed.

The 5x5 at 80%, where did that come from? Get rid of that, too. You are missing the point of the main sets if you think you can add 25 reps at 80% for a different lift on the same day AND do FSL sets.

Try something like this:

-Main lift, push last set hard - all reps explosive as possible, but controlled
-FSL at 5x5 - all reps explosive as possible, but controlled
-One big accessory movement for 50+/- reps (Rows, chins, RDLs, Step-ups, lunges)
-Curls on upper body days
-Done

If you are recovering well and kicking ass with this, then add an isolation movement strictly for pump, no ego training. Remember the importance of eating for size and strength. Don’t assume that you just aren’t doing enough work in the gym.

Good luck.

[/quote]
That is from the BBB variation 5x5 @ 80%

4

[quote]death_ak wrote:

[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:

[quote]Congokurt wrote:
I need some guidance on my programming. I have only focused on powerlifting for the last 8 months, doing the original 531 BBB the whole time. Been training lame ass bodybuilding splits 4 years prior to that.

How does this look? Theres a few fluffy isolations inthere, but i�??�?�´ve kept it to a minimum (my calves are really small by nature). I want to get stronger in the big 3, especially the squat, which is falling behind the other lifts.

I�??�?�´m only doing Joker sets, when I feel like I have a good day, and no FSL on DL day.

Squat 531 + Joker + FSL
DL 5x5 80%
RDL 4x10-12
Standing BB Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

BP 531 Joker FSL
Press 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
DB Row 3x20
Chins supersets 6x10

DL 531 Joker
Squat 5x5 80%
Leg Press 4x10
Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

Press 531 Joker FSL
BP 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
Seated Low Row 3x10
Lat Raise 3x15
Chins supersets 6x10
[/quote]

Get rid of the Jokers, first of all. They are never intended to be programmed in, and should rarely be performed.

The 5x5 at 80%, where did that come from? Get rid of that, too. You are missing the point of the main sets if you think you can add 25 reps at 80% for a different lift on the same day AND do FSL sets.

Try something like this:

-Main lift, push last set hard - all reps explosive as possible, but controlled
-FSL at 5x5 - all reps explosive as possible, but controlled
-One big accessory movement for 50+/- reps (Rows, chins, RDLs, Step-ups, lunges)
-Curls on upper body days
-Done

If you are recovering well and kicking ass with this, then add an isolation movement strictly for pump, no ego training. Remember the importance of eating for size and strength. Don’t assume that you just aren’t doing enough work in the gym.

Good luck.

[/quote]
That is from the BBB variation 5x5 @ 80%[/quote]

Yeah - you are not using it right. At all.

Read Joey’s post. Joey is one of my best friends and has learned more about the program in the past 2 or so years than anyone. This is because he asks a ton of questions, trusts his experiences and thankfully, trusts me.

What Joey said above is 100000% true. Don’t try to overthink what you don’t know. I have worked very hard on this program to make it work. I suggest that you, at the very least, trust that the person that wrote the program knows something about the program.

5

Ok, I get it. Too much volume - I overthought it. I´ll do what you guys suggested.

1 clarification question though: The BBB 5x5 (and 5x3) isnt supposed to be done with the squat/DL template? Only squat/squat? That “cross” template is only for 5x10 BBB?

6

[quote]Congokurt wrote:
Ok, I get it. Too much volume - I overthought it. I�´ll do what you guys suggested.

1 clarification question though: The BBB 5x5 (and 5x3) isnt supposed to be done with the squat/DL template? Only squat/squat? That “cross” template is only for 5x10 BBB?[/quote]

It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with the supplemental work - you have two different supplemental programs going on at the same time.

7

[quote]Congokurt wrote:
Ok, I get it. Too much volume - I overthought it. I�´ll do what you guys suggested.

1 clarification question though: The BBB 5x5 (and 5x3) isnt supposed to be done with the squat/DL template? Only squat/squat? That “cross” template is only for 5x10 BBB?[/quote]

Problem here is that you have blended fsl, jokers and bbb variation in one template.

Someone correct me if im wrong, but this is how I have recently understood the program;

Warm Up/Mobility
Jumps/Throws
Main work: 5/3/1, 3/5/1, 5’sPro, Beyond 5/3/1…
Supplemental: Fsl(any variation), Pyramid, Ssl, Sst, Bbb(any variaton), high rep assistance lift(=triumvirate style), 5x5@70-75% of TM etc. You only choose one. No SQ 531+fsl amrap + DL 5x10bbb + leg press…

8

[quote]Sami-84 wrote:

[quote]Congokurt wrote:
Ok, I get it. Too much volume - I overthought it. I�?�´ll do what you guys suggested.

1 clarification question though: The BBB 5x5 (and 5x3) isnt supposed to be done with the squat/DL template? Only squat/squat? That “cross” template is only for 5x10 BBB?[/quote]

Problem here is that you have blended fsl, jokers and bbb variation in one template.

Someone correct me if im wrong, but this is how I have recently understood the program;

Warm Up/Mobility
Jumps/Throws
Main work: 5/3/1, 3/5/1, 5’sPro, Beyond 5/3/1…
Supplemental: Fsl(any variation), Pyramid, Ssl, Sst, Bbb(any variaton), high rep assistance lift(=triumvirate style), 5x5@70-75% of TM etc. You only choose one. No SQ 531+fsl amrap + DL 5x10bbb + leg press…

[/quote]

Motherfucka got it right. We generally do supplemental/assistance/conditioning after main lift. IN GENERAL - it kinda depends. We do some different shit with assistance/conditioning by combining them. But the point is - Son of Sami84 is correct.

9

It took me some time to get this shit. After mistakes, template hopping, screwing around with TM, worrying about “training frequency”, protein/carb/fat ratios and all stupid things this has been huge releaf for my training (and life).

Principles, smart/hard work, balance… this shit adds up in the long run.
I dont worry about if my calves or forearms get enough hit or should I train 3 or 4 days/week.

So I owe you a big thank you for that. Simple & Effective, allways delivers.

10

[quote]Sami-84 wrote:
It took me some time to get this shit. After mistakes, template hopping, screwing around with TM, worrying about “training frequency”, protein/carb/fat ratios and all stupid things this has been huge releaf for my training (and life).

Principles, smart/hard work, balance… this shit adds up in the long run.
I dont worry about if my calves or forearms get enough hit or should I train 3 or 4 days/week.

So I owe you a big thank you for that. Simple & Effective, allways delivers.[/quote]

You put in action - that is what matters. YOU deserve the credit as YOU did the work. Lots of people fail to comprehend and then act. The second part is as important as the first. Lots of people got the brains but not the legs.

That sentence sums it up nicely.

11

This post makes me look back my own BBB and have a second thought about it. I think i am gonna take Joey’s advise to correct my program. Doing FSL instead of BBB 5x10 for strength gains.

12

I’ve been using the same exact setup as you just about for 4 months now and 5x5 @ 80% IS very doable and I’ve made my best gains thus far using something similar. I don’t know why people think you can’t. It will kick your ass at first, but you will adapt. If it works for you, do it. Here’s my routine. I like to rotate my supplemental lifts from time to time.

Squat-5/3/1
Snatch grip DL/RDL or DL 6x6@80%
Snatch grip high pull- 6x4@80%
Abs

OHP-5/3/1
DB Press/Close Grip BP or BP-6x6@80%
T-Rows-6x6@80%
Abs

DL-5/3/1
Front Squat-6x6@80%
Snatch Grip High Pull-6x6@80%
Abs

BP-5/3/1
Behind Neck Presses-6x6@80%
T-Rows-6x6@80%
Abs

13

[quote]badboy69cancer wrote:
I’ve been using the same exact setup as you just about for 4 months now and 5x5 @ 80% IS very doable and I’ve made my best gains thus far using something similar. I don’t know why people think you can’t. It will kick your ass at first, but you will adapt. If it works for you, do it. Here’s my routine. I like to rotate my supplemental lifts from time to time.

Squat-5/3/1
Snatch grip DL/RDL or DL 6x6@80%
Snatch grip high pull- 6x4@80%
Abs

OHP-5/3/1
DB Press/Close Grip BP or BP-6x6@80%
T-Rows-6x6@80%
Abs

DL-5/3/1
Front Squat-6x6@80%
Snatch Grip High Pull-6x6@80%
Abs

BP-5/3/1
Behind Neck Presses-6x6@80%
T-Rows-6x6@80%
Abs

[/quote]

Please read and comprehend the questions and answers before answering. Thanks.

14

Yes, apologies for the lack of reading comprehension.

15

[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:

[quote]Congokurt wrote:
I need some guidance on my programming. I have only focused on powerlifting for the last 8 months, doing the original 531 BBB the whole time. Been training lame ass bodybuilding splits 4 years prior to that.

How does this look? Theres a few fluffy isolations inthere, but i�?�´ve kept it to a minimum (my calves are really small by nature). I want to get stronger in the big 3, especially the squat, which is falling behind the other lifts.

I�?�´m only doing Joker sets, when I feel like I have a good day, and no FSL on DL day.

Squat 531 + Joker + FSL
DL 5x5 80%
RDL 4x10-12
Standing BB Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

BP 531 Joker FSL
Press 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
DB Row 3x20
Chins supersets 6x10

DL 531 Joker
Squat 5x5 80%
Leg Press 4x10
Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

Press 531 Joker FSL
BP 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
Seated Low Row 3x10
Lat Raise 3x15
Chins supersets 6x10
[/quote]

Get rid of the Jokers, first of all. They are never intended to be programmed in, and should rarely be performed.

The 5x5 at 80%, where did that come from? Get rid of that, too. You are missing the point of the main sets if you think you can add 25 reps at 80% for a different lift on the same day AND do FSL sets.

Try something like this:

-Main lift, push last set hard - all reps explosive as possible, but controlled
-FSL at 5x5 - all reps explosive as possible, but controlled
-One big accessory movement for 50+/- reps (Rows, chins, RDLs, Step-ups, lunges)
-Curls on upper body days
-Done

If you are recovering well and kicking ass with this, then add an isolation movement strictly for pump, no ego training. Remember the importance of eating for size and strength. Don’t assume that you just aren’t doing enough work in the gym.

Good luck.

[/quote]

You obviously haven’t read the book.

16

[quote]DanProsser wrote:

[quote]JoeyWaters wrote:

[quote]Congokurt wrote:
I need some guidance on my programming. I have only focused on powerlifting for the last 8 months, doing the original 531 BBB the whole time. Been training lame ass bodybuilding splits 4 years prior to that.

How does this look? Theres a few fluffy isolations inthere, but i�??�?�´ve kept it to a minimum (my calves are really small by nature). I want to get stronger in the big 3, especially the squat, which is falling behind the other lifts.

I�??�?�´m only doing Joker sets, when I feel like I have a good day, and no FSL on DL day.

Squat 531 + Joker + FSL
DL 5x5 80%
RDL 4x10-12
Standing BB Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

BP 531 Joker FSL
Press 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
DB Row 3x20
Chins supersets 6x10

DL 531 Joker
Squat 5x5 80%
Leg Press 4x10
Calf Raise 60 sec r/p 20 reps x3
Ab

Press 531 Joker FSL
BP 5x5 80%
Dip 4x10
Seated Low Row 3x10
Lat Raise 3x15
Chins supersets 6x10
[/quote]

Get rid of the Jokers, first of all. They are never intended to be programmed in, and should rarely be performed.

The 5x5 at 80%, where did that come from? Get rid of that, too. You are missing the point of the main sets if you think you can add 25 reps at 80% for a different lift on the same day AND do FSL sets.

Try something like this:

-Main lift, push last set hard - all reps explosive as possible, but controlled
-FSL at 5x5 - all reps explosive as possible, but controlled
-One big accessory movement for 50+/- reps (Rows, chins, RDLs, Step-ups, lunges)
-Curls on upper body days
-Done

If you are recovering well and kicking ass with this, then add an isolation movement strictly for pump, no ego training. Remember the importance of eating for size and strength. Don’t assume that you just aren’t doing enough work in the gym.

Good luck.

[/quote]

You obviously haven’t read the book.[/quote]

Why do you say that, Dan-O?