[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
Specifically, are women attracted to men they fear?
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Some.
[quote]
Or more specifically, are women attracted to men they fear and then it turns out the man is OK? [/quote]Some.
I guess you’re implying you’re scary.
Yes, the “fucked up” ones are likely to be those attracted to scary men.
[quote]
This just came to mind because of a recent conversation with a girl I dated in the past. She said that when we met, she thought I was there (at a bar) to kick someone’s ass and was a little afraid of me, but we talked and she was relieved.
Anyway, I’ve had similar comments from several girlfriends/hook ups over the years, and it made me wonder.[/quote]
I THINK most women, even normal ones, like to see men, normal ones included, have fierce reactions here and there, and sometimes provoke them on purpose to see if the guy is a pushover or not. I don’t even think women do this consciously, but because of some hard wiring, they’re inclined to do it every now and again, drive the guy nuts to the point at which he loses his temper.
I am not Hugh Hefner, but in the past, this has “worked” for me, though not intentionally so. The woman in the situation just made me so irritated that I flipped out, and then for some bizarre reason took more of a liking to me, even if temporarily so.
They all have little “switches” in their brains that you flip. It’s fucking easy. Different women, respond more to some switches than others. For some, the “Provider/Protector” combination is all that it takes. For others, it’s “pre-selection” (having a buncha bitches on your jock). Some go for the “Reformed bad boy” that they can channel their “mothering instincts” into “fixing you”. Other’s like Leaders and successful risk takers. Women are not a one trick pony. Flipping the switches is easy - you just demonstrate that quality. Knowing WHICH switch to flip first and in what order to flip the rest? That’s more art than science.
The higher the value a woman perceives herself to be, the more complicated the combination. That’s why banging hot bitches with low self esteem is like taking candy from a baby. But a woman who’s “got it all” (brains, beauty and personality) and has had no serious emotional trauma in her life will be a FAR trickier fish to catch.
Women understand one thing FAR better than men: STATUS. They can sniff that shit out a mile away. So if you have a weak frame and don’t have your shit together, you may as well work on that first before trying to find a quality chick. And by status, I mean that ANYONE can have their shit together (or is on the way) and project status. You don’t have to be tall or rich or an athlete. Status is very contextual. Find something you’re good at and excel at it. Find a way to display it to a woman you are interested in. She will respond on some level. Of course for those of us who are tall, smart, bad ass, well hung, and make a lot of money, it’s pretty fucking easy.
I could write a dissertation on this shit ( and I did several times back in the SAMA days ) but, to sum it up, I will leave you with a quote from Eban Pagan (David DeAngelo): “ATTRACTION ISN’T A CHOICE”. Once you’ve lit the spark, you have a nice little window to fan the flame. If you fuck up, the fire goes out. It’s simple. Not easy, but simple.
And to address TTR, your height (protector) and dating experience (pre-selection) coupled with your business (leader of men, provider, successful risk taker), military experience (protector, leader) is probably drawing out women that need protection/provision… I would submit for your consideration that you display OTHER attributes (you can’t really do anything about the height) such as being comfortable talking about commonalities and displaying some emotion/vulnerability. The crazy bitches will look at this as weakness, but the “keepers” will stick around for more. In other words, try being “nice”. With all of the “switches” and factors you’ve got going for you, you can afford the “hit” that being a “nice guy” would produce. I would normally never advocate this to anyone, but in your case, try it on for a minute and see the results. It might take some practice. LOL
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Women are not that difficult.
They all have little “switches” in their brains that you flip. It’s fucking easy. Different women, respond more to some switches than others. For some, the “Provider/Protector” combination is all that it takes. For others, it’s “pre-selection” (having a buncha bitches on your jock). Some go for the “Reformed bad boy” that they can channel their “mothering instincts” into “fixing you”. Other’s like Leaders and successful risk takers. Women are not a one trick pony. Flipping the switches is easy - you just demonstrate that quality. Knowing WHICH switch to flip first and in what order to flip the rest? That’s more art than science.
The higher the value a woman perceives herself to be, the more complicated the combination. That’s why banging hot bitches with low self esteem is like taking candy from a baby. But a woman who’s “got it all” (brains, beauty and personality) and has had no serious emotional trauma in her life will be a FAR trickier fish to catch.
Women understand one thing FAR better than men: STATUS. They can sniff that shit out a mile away. So if you have a weak frame and don’t have your shit together, you may as well work on that first before trying to find a quality chick. And by status, I mean that ANYONE can have their shit together (or is on the way) and project status. You don’t have to be tall or rich or an athlete. Status is very contextual. Find something you’re good at and excel at it. Find a way to display it to a woman you are interested in. She will respond on some level. Of course for those of us who are tall, smart, bad ass, well hung, and make a lot of money, it’s pretty fucking easy.
I could write a dissertation on this shit ( and I did several times back in the SAMA days ) but, to sum it up, I will leave you with a quote from Eban Pagan (David DeAngelo): “ATTRACTION ISN’T A CHOICE”. Once you’ve lit the spark, you have a nice little window to fan the flame. If you fuck up, the fire goes out. It’s simple. Not easy, but simple.
And to address TTR, your height (protector) and dating experience (pre-selection) coupled with your business (leader of men, provider, successful risk taker), military experience (protector, leader) is probably drawing out women that need protection/provision… I would submit for your consideration that you display OTHER attributes (you can’t really do anything about the height) such as being comfortable talking about commonalities and displaying some emotion/vulnerability. The crazy bitches will look at this as weakness, but the “keepers” will stick around for more. In other words, try being “nice”. With all of the “switches” and factors you’ve got going for you, you can afford the “hit” that being a “nice guy” would produce. I would normally never advocate this to anyone, but in your case, try it on for a minute and see the results. It might take some practice. LOL
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Haha, thanks for this. I think you added a lot of cultural and social norms to what I was initially thinking. It makes a lot of sense by the way, really thanks, some of this is vaguely familiar… I remember strongly questioning how to define bad boy.
So far, from what I can tell most women think bad boys are the ones that will sneak them into a hotel jacuzzi, and then ditch her when they get caught by security sort. Bad boys ime are usually just boys who break simple rules. Real, hardened felons, prior military guys that have the “I can’t die and am unafraid to” and are wreckless with their lives, I’m talking what men consider bad boys isn’t always the same. There are women who go for cons and felons, but I think that’s a bit of a different animal. I think most women are actually afraid of real badness. I know they are actually.
I never thought about throwing switches as you explain. I even stopped mentioning I’m prior military and just let it be discovered these days, which seems to work out very well. There’s something about revealing things to women vs. letting them discover things about you in the process of just getting to know one another. It brings a little excitement for both parties when we discover things like this about one another. I mean going into something and learning about your date via asking the right questions and being asked the right questions. It tells you a lot about your date, how into you they are, and if they are into you they will ask and usually these sorts of discoveries are exciting for both parties. If you go into a date and discover out of the ordinary things about her it’s a lot more enjoyable and exciting. It seems more genuine to me and less just putting yourself out there. It’s very natural and leads to a lot of success.
[quote]Severiano wrote:
The herem isn’t at all my romantic ideal. I’m looking at this from my own perspective, that is from my own experience as well as, as many things as I can recall and have learned through school, norms I see in society, etc.
And, actually the reason I thought of a herem as an ideal is because as you say, there are few quality men, or at least they are hard to find, and what a quality man is, for many women is amazingly similar, and it makes sense because in western society those things that I have mentioned in the prior post follows. Men of power tend to be tall and wealthy, is it wrong for me to observe this? [/quote]
I did NOT say there are few quality men out there. If you want to believe that most women go around complaining that there are no good men then go right ahead, but please stop insisting that I don’t think quality men are in adequate supply. I said “yucky men seem to be in greater supply,” and went on to make my point, which was that their attraction to me does not require that I become interested in them. So, what are “yucky” men? For me it’s a catch-all word to indicate anyone I don’t want to be involved with. There are a LOT of tall men with money I don’t want to kiss. Why I’m able to be so choosy is that there are plenty of quality men out there, as I define them - which is very different from your definition.
[quote]When I think about the situation from an anthropological standpoint, things like sperm donations and social hierarchy’s of chimps and other primates come to mind, most are what we would consider herem like in activity.
I’m not calling it wrong or right.
The rest of it in my mind is trying to rationalize it with what I have experienced. You may not have friends who go after men with large penises, but there are certain women who seek them out, that you aren’t one of those types of women or don’t have any friends or talk about penises at all outside of whether they hurt or not is cool. It’s a thing a lot of guys are insecure about, maybe it’s a security thing? I don’t know, I just know certain women seek out big dick. I had security issues for the a long time because I’m uncut and kids used to make fun of me because of it before I started having girlfriends. [/quote]
These are not quality women, regardless of their waist/hip ratio.
I disagree. I’m notorious for ignoring instability red flags, and I’m not particularly fucked up. But now we’re both repeating ourselves. Your perspective seems very narrow. Does it not occur to you that others (women) are engaged in a parallel process?
[quote]I’d much rather we all get to find that one person that just does it for us. But I don’t really think that’s a reality when we look at people as animals, which I like to do. If we were some sort of ubermanch, what would regular human activity look like to them is what I wonder.
I think we are more like chimps socially than people want to accept. I think it’s a real possibility, only entertaining the ideas. Last thing I want are herems, because I’m not tall or rich.
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I suspect if you continue hooking up with big-dick-seekers and vaguely rathering things could be different, but not believing they can be, you’ll be proved right.[/quote]
I think there are some exceptions, I’m talking about red flags I’m sure you recognize in men that may point to them being unstable. But then I think I also remember you saying in one of your posts that those things aren’t always revealed early by men, usually not until a woman is invested that they discover what they truly have. Some of the things those guys did, and the way they acted towards you had me shaking my head, clearly some of the guys you date are some serious toolboxes that never had a mother or sister.
I think there that the ideal physical man, and the ideal archetype are very similar for most western women. I think that what is in demand from sperm banks tells the story. It makes sense for you to want children that are going to be successful, you get those genes from the ideal. It’s done at sperm banks, they wont take my sperm… I have a couple University degrees, bit better than average IQ, very mixed genes but I’m also 5’8 or so and not wealthy. Compare me to say Skyz, 6’4, blue eyes, Ivy league educated and a successful Hedge Fund manager at Goldman. I think it’s pretty clear who will be in demand and who will go extinct. But whats funny is it goes even farther, in that women can screen for disease trends, longevity and things we don’t know about our partners normally.
Take all of this and consider the simple mechanics of it all. How many children can a woman honestly have in a lifetime, vs how many kids can a man sire in his lifetime? The average man can knock out as many children as you can have in a lifetime in just a few hours if he’s healthy. And then he can go do it for the rest of his life. A man is viable and sperm producing far longer than a woman is fertile and has quality eggs.
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I think my misadventure with the hunter guy provides a perfect example of what I’m saying. Tall guy, great body (very nice), financially stable, but an utter lunatic. Would I date any of his friends? No.
Tall and attractive are icing on the cake, but they’re not how I define “quality.” Financial success indicates a number of underlying traits that do tend to correlate with “quality.” Intellect, drive, organizational ability, etc.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
In other words, try being “nice”. With all of the “switches” and factors you’ve got going for you, you can afford the “hit” that being a “nice guy” would produce. I would normally never advocate this to anyone, but in your case, try it on for a minute and see the results. It might take some practice. LOL
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I hesitate to say this, but OP, you indeed might be too…much…
You might indeed be a dish that needs a healthy amount of a beta sidedish to be digestible to the average “nice girl”…
They are not stupid, they know you can bang strippers…
So, why wouldnt you?
Its quite a unique set of problems you have there and I am terribly sorry that I am quite amused and have a hard time feeling bad for you.
Males have a fear response in response to attractive females.
There are a couple potential explanations for this, fear and excitement being physiologically very similar, fear of competitive males, potential emotional pangs resurfacing from childhood yadda yadda.
We are all overlooking the tendency for the opposite sex to become very intoxicating and addicting while seeping into every aspect of someone’s psyche coloring their entire world.
For anyone that has ever been in love, and devastated as a result the biological warning that one should proceed carefully makes sense. There is very real emotional and psychological danger in interacting with females of high reproductive value, especially those with potential long term mating viability.
In short, it goes both ways and is likely a combination of many factors, all pointing to very real potential dangers from not only our past, but into the modern age.
[i]Looks like nothing’s gonna change
Everything still remains the same
I can’t do what ten people tell me to do
So I guess I’ll remain the same, listen
Sittin’ here resting my bones
And this loneliness won’t leave me alone, listen
Two thousand miles I roam
Just to make this dock my home, now[/i]