[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]Severiano wrote:
What quality is, is subjective in a lot of ways for men viewing women I think. One dudes crazy bitch is another guys dream girl.
Women seem to always want most of the same traits in men… It almost seems like we are supposed to have herem structures. You want a tall stable guy with decent to great looks and a lot of money.
Not that I like the idea, but all this talk about quality men and women seeking the same qualities points to that at first glance. Look at our closest relatives… I’m more open minded to this idea considering the demand for quality men and most men being shitty in your opinion. A shitty man is a shitty man, right? [/quote]
Are you talking to me? If so, I didn’t say most men are shitty, I said that yucky men are in greater supply generally speaking. Maybe my world is different - very possibly so. Also highly likely that I am a snob. But my point was that I don’t have to go out with them. And certainly “yucky men” are not every guy who isn’t tall, decent to great looking, with a lot of money.
I also dispute that all women want the same thing. Sure, on the surface it may sound the same (“smart, funny, blah blah”) but the particulars of that vary greatly. What is funny to me, and to the man who is right for me? Fitness and athleticism can be a great strain if there’s not agreement. What sort of television is acceptable. How sex works - rough, loving, kinky, missionary.
I also think you’re deluded if you don’t think women very often go for the male equivalent of “crazy bitch.” Charming, abusive men have their appeal to some women. The foolish ones.
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I’m saying there’s a certain archetype of man. I don’t recall the name of the study but there is strong co-relation of men of power being tall and wealthy. If women tend be anthropologically geared towards being attracted to the types that would be both good protectors (tall) and good providers (tall being tied to wealth), that physical type fits those basic bills that are in demand for a woman. The archetype is that the guy is for the most part stable and not a pussy. So you see, it seems pretty easy for a woman. She looks for a tall guy who has money, that is decent to incredible looking (attractiveness)(tallness)(money) they all sort of link together in a neater way than women do for us.
I think all women are pretty much attracted to this sort of man more or less. Kinda like guys are generally attracted to a woman with certain body ratio’s. The thing is for us is the archetype/ personalities of women are pretty out there, and the dynamic of sex between men and women is such that we don’t command what is in demand. Women do. You are the gatekeepers to sex.
If you want a certain type, and archetype and there are very few of those men, and men will pretty much have sex with anything so long as it isn’t wrong, why not have herems? All it would take is a little adjustment to traditional western ethics. When we compare our dynamics to primates, if we are honest we will observe a lot of similarities. The way beta males have higher levels of anxiety and disease, etc. We are just smart chimps.
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If your ability to discriminate between human beings is limited to “tall,” “not a pussy,” or “displaying X body ratio,” then your lack of discernment is the issue, rather than that the personalities of women are too “out there.”
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Sorry it’s very general. I’m more blurting out things that I’ve observed.
Sometimes things can boil down to being very simple and true.
Men are attracted in general to women with certain waist to hip ratio’s for example, there are entire anthropology books written about sexual attraction, women, and how they carry fat.
There are books that boil down the very basic reasons women have sex, ranging from the anthropological hypothesis about being protectors, providers and being stable. They translate today to things like being tall (protector) having money (provider), and being stable is something you are going to look for in a mate if you rely on them to protect and provide for you.
For a man we tend to easily turn into the shitty man category as I have coined it, it’s not what you have said, I said it. If a man is lacking in one of these categories he’s basically a shitty man, sort of looked at as possibly a non quality man.
If you find out your mate has say anxiety issues, you may look at him as unstable, of course there could be medication to solve the problem but I think there is something to this… If a guy knows a woman has anxiety issues he might actually be more protective of her, she is still desirable, she is just a little more work… Does that make sense or am I crazy? It’s part of the difference in mate choosing as well.
There’s the whole men are dogs thing too. We will generally accept mates that are available to us. It just seems that some men have all the things desirable going on, it would make sense for more women to want to share their genes with them on an anthropological level so they can pass on superior genes to their children… Provisions come in the form of money, it makes a lot of sense to me and it seems to happen in some sense when we consider what traits are in demand when it comes to sperm donations. Do you think many women are going to opt for the short uneducated man with average income, or the tall educated man with wealth’s sperm? Would it make a difference if the short uneducated guy was sweet and the tall rich guy was sort of an ass? [/quote]
Severiano, your entire premise is flawed in that you’re failing to take into account that women go for all sorts of men with all sorts of combinations of traits, just as men do. Your studies are showing trends or ideals, not the reality of life, which is that as many men are short as tall, broke as rich - just as women come in waist/hip ratios that are all over the place.
Also, this business of men accepting or embracing women with emotional issues but imagining women don’t do the same is very naive. Have I not mentioned my difficulty pulling away from men who need emotional propping? Angry men, abusive men, drunken men, needy men, attention-seeking men, passive-aggressive men, jealous men, men seeking dominance, men with anxiety issues, depression, sexual difficulties. . . these very often have wives and girlfriends.
Lastly, the piece about women sharing penis info. . . I don’t even know what to say. I’ve never in my life been told about the genitals of a friend’s partner and then sought those genitals out. I’m not sure I’ve ever been told about it in the first place! I can’t recall ever having a conversation of that sort. Maybe once or twice there’s been a conversation about pain due to size (bumping cervix). A decent (non-shitty) woman/girl doesn’t go after her friends’ guys in order to access a big dick.
This all seems so obvious to me. Why doesn’t it to you?
Edit: But if a harem is your ideal romantic set-up, you should of course seek it out. Personally, I’d rather have a short man than an intimate relationship with half a dozen people. But that’s me, bucking the natural order of things as always![/quote]
The herem isn’t at all my romantic ideal. I’m looking at this from my own perspective, that is from my own experience as well as, as many things as I can recall and have learned through school, norms I see in society, etc.
And, actually the reason I thought of a herem as an ideal is because as you say, there are few quality men, or at least they are hard to find, and what a quality man is, for many women is amazingly similar, and it makes sense because in western society those things that I have mentioned in the prior post follows. Men of power tend to be tall and wealthy, is it wrong for me to observe this?
When I think about the situation from an anthropological standpoint, things like sperm donations and social hierarchy’s of chimps and other primates come to mind, most are what we would consider herem like in activity.
I’m not calling it wrong or right.
The rest of it in my mind is trying to rationalize it with what I have experienced. You may not have friends who go after men with large penises, but there are certain women who seek them out, that you aren’t one of those types of women or don’t have any friends or talk about penises at all outside of whether they hurt or not is cool. It’s a thing a lot of guys are insecure about, maybe it’s a security thing? I don’t know, I just know certain women seek out big dick. I had security issues for the a long time because I’m uncut and kids used to make fun of me because of it before I started having girlfriends.
As far as emotions, insecurities and other lack of stability. I think that if a woman loses herself and starts to show them sort of early in a relationship a guy is more likely going to embrace them and be willing to work through them. A lot of the times guys are afraid to show their emotions or show that they have issues out of fear of showing women they are unstable. A woman who isn’t invested in a man will have a lot easier time walking away, where most men are going to look at her as I explained in the last post.
I’d much rather we all get to find that one person that just does it for us. But I don’t really think that’s a reality when we look at people as animals, which I like to do. If we were some sort of ubermanch, what would regular human activity look like to them is what I wonder.
I think we are more like chimps socially than people want to accept. I think it’s a real possibility, only entertaining the ideas. Last thing I want are herems, because I’m not tall or rich.
