I second that. Get your post-workout carbs.
i still dont understand how you guys can be uplifted and energised after a workout. even if i get 10hrs sleep, then train 3 hours after i wake up, with good for before and during my workout. i finish my workout, sweating profusely (sp?), exhausted and collapse for 2hrs. Always have. On the odd occasion i become delirious and laugh it off saying its the endorphins so…
i guess as i said before ill check on the nutrition, sleep, recovery, vitamins and minerals, reduce the caffeine, de-stress, maybe reduce the volume – typically do about 3,4,5 ex per big muscles ie chest legs back and 2-3 for smaller arms, calves, delts. i also go to failure on every single excercise, when i fail at my rep range, usually 4-8, i move to the next exercise.
Don’t go to failure on every single set either. I was always that guy as well, pushing myself to death on every set. It isn’t neccessary and will make you feel like shit as you’re experiencing. You don’t have to train to complete failure on every set to be intense and stimulate growth. Nowadays I will usually go to failure on my very last work set, then move on to my next exercise. The sets where I push it to absolute failure as well, I can feel a piece of my soul lost in that set.
You just identified your problem buddy.
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
On the odd occasion i become delirious and laugh it off saying its the endorphins so…
[/quote]
Are you sure those little white pills are caffeine? 
As others have said, make sure your blood sugar levels are good (enough carbs around workout).
And as regards volume, it’s only good as far as progress determines. Yeah, your workouts should make you feel well worked, but not “waisted” EVERY time. You can only give it your best and bounce back quickly if your body can handle it and if you pull back at the right times (take a few days rest after several weeks). Reason why I’m not saying much about your diet is because you said yourself that you are gaining weight, so other than getting in enough protein, there’s not much left aside from your workouts/stress.
Note about caffeine:
Don’t stop it suddenly (the headaches will be debilitating!), gradually reduce it and don’t expect to feel good over the next few weeks lol.
Yeah thanks man, ill do it slowly, maybe a cup or two a day and then one and then none. Not energy drinks also. Have way too many of them. Ive also been really stressed in recent weeks/months so it may be the biggest factor. Thanks for your advice. I no longer think ur a cunt jks (if u remember back to another thread)
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
…I no longer think ur a cunt jks (if u remember back to another thread)[/quote]
That’s good to know 
lol
You could also be experiencing “high carb crashes/bloodsugar crashes”…caused by spiking insulin too many times. Make sure your meals are pretty balanced (e.g. not too many carbs other than around workout/upon wakening). Workout carbs doesn’t need to be too high either, otherwise again, you’ll have a great come down (“crash”). Overall, I don’t see the need to take in more than 100g around workout times (could be ~50g pre, 50g sipped during and after).
Yeah usually ill wake up and have a coffee, then P30C60 60min before i workout, P30C30 during, then P30C30 after w/500ml whole milk. Then hour later a meal w/protein + carbs
I’d probably crash too if I ate all that stuff around my workout and downed 2 cups of whole milk right afterward… and then another meal only an hour later?
I know that this peri-workout nutrition stuff is the current trend, but I don’t think I could ever do it like that. It would just make me feel sluggish and bloated and I’m sure I would crash.
I’ll typically eat some food about an hour and a half before I leave for the gym, and then about 30-45 minutes after I get home from the gym I’ll have a protein shake and/or a meal (enough to fill me up for a few hours).
Who knows maybe your results will be faster than mine, who cares if you crash if it works right? lol
I feel pretty bad after most workouts, after about a month of DC stuff no energy even to cook.
Right now pretty bad, tired, can’t think, sick in gut, grumpy, dry mouth - normally gone by the morning. Am watching my calories and most workouts involve some cardio (solid state, intervals or tabata).
Interested in any solutions you find, imagine once calories go up I will be ok.
The only time I feel like that is after a long downtime and just getting back in the gym. I get about 6-7 hrs of sleep per night and I’m in the gym by 5:30 am. Work at about 7/7:30 am. The only time I get sluggish is about this time - Ah I feel it hitting me nowwwwwwwwwww
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
Yeah usually ill wake up and have a coffee, then P30C60 60min before i workout, P30C30 during, then P30C30 after w/500ml whole milk. Then hour later a meal w/protein + carbs[/quote]
What you’ve got to remember is the amount of energy it takes for your body to process all that food AND while exercising (which leads to sluggishness/tiredness). Like Mr Popular said though, this seems to be the trend, and if it leads to better gains, so be it lol. Although, you have to weigh it up - is the extra drain on the system (with all that food) worth interfering with your performance? I can perform better with less in the stomach during workout…
If you do decide to change it, keep the pre workout meal and just take something light during the workout (e.g. sports drink or water) and something small straight after to tide you over for your meal.
Best to try and spread it out as much as you can (then that way it won’t be as much of a strain on your system and will make you less tired). The important thing with nutrient timing is eating plenty after the workout; your bodies highly sensitive and “crying out” for nutrients for a few hours afterwards. Ideally, it would be good to keep nutrients coming every hour for 3 or 4 hours after a workout (spread them out over that period).
As regards what I said earlier about crashes, the protein meals have just as high an effect as increasing insulin as just carbs alone. So if you drank 30g carbs and 30g protein, that’s just like drinking 60g of carbs. Something to bear in mind…
Interesting point about the protein having an insulin effect also. I might try something like;
-p30c30 before during and after with just water
-then a big meal and hour after that
could it possibly be the digestion of too many fast digesting sugars, sure the fat should slow the spike of insulin from the lactose after workout, but maybe just too many fast digesting before and during. pretty much just trying to follow workout protocol. might shoot waylander a PM, he has protein and WMS before and during.
If you have time to… “Then came home, had a shake and passed out on the couch for at least 2 hrs before i started feeling good enough to start doing things. Maybe even 3 hours sometimes.”… then you also have the time to take a powernap. =)
It takes me about an hour to get things going again after a workout. Sometimes I’ll take a powernap and afterwards a cup of coffee. If not a good meal will sober me up.
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
Interesting point about the protein having an insulin effect also. I might try something like;
-p30c30 before during and after with just water
-then a big meal and hour after that
could it possibly be the digestion of too many fast digesting sugars, sure the fat should slow the spike of insulin from the lactose after workout, but maybe just too many fast digesting before and during. pretty much just trying to follow workout protocol. might shoot waylander a PM, he has protein and WMS before and during. [/quote]
It’s probably the accumulative effect of all that (and the sheer size/frequency of consuming).
I don’t see the point in taking a protein meal during workout - it takes time for this to breakdown and won’t even be efficient since the body’s pumping blood and using it’s resources on your muscles rather than your digestion (surely you must be getting pretty bad runny stools yeah? lol). It won’t harm you to drop protein during workout because the meal an hour before it will provide enough aminos for whatever is needed.
The body’s main priority when exercising is energy requirements. Plus it’s good to spike insulin at this time to shuttle all those “floating” amino acids (from the meal you ate an hour before workout) into where they’re needed.
Just remember, if it takes around 2-4 hours for the body to process meals normally, how do you expect it to process 3+ meals while training and all over a period of only ~2 hours? People often underestimate the amount of nutrients still “floating” around in the system some time after eating. For example, amino’s can still be in the system for hours (which is why vegetarians don’t have to eat complete protein sources in the same meal).
The trick to bodybuilding is being in a positive nitrogen balance, and this is best done by consuming frequent/small portion meals after the workout (which over about 4 or 5 hours is the majority of your daily calorie requirements)…and obviously supplying what the body needs the rest of the time.
Interesting, what do you do – fast digesting carbs and protein before and after, then a meal?? I was just trying to take advantage of the whole peri-workout thing. Ive found that ever since ive been having shake before, during and after, that even when not eating properly all my lifts still go up. So it is doing something. But… now that you mention it, all the milk that i have after may be the fatiguing thing, coupled with my lack of sleep.
Cos i do remember that when i just have shakes w/water and then a meal after i tend to feel better. The milk was just getting the calories in 
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
Interesting, what do you do – fast digesting carbs and protein before and after, then a meal?? [/quote]
Honestly? I drink 1 pint of milk upon wakening, an hour later another pint, then 30mins later, workout with a “sugary” drink - it’s THAT complicated I guess I could argue that the casein protein in milk is slowly digested and therefore keeps me in a positive nitrogen balance for longer…but no, it’s just cause it’s convenient (and it seems to work) lol
Like I said, I always emphasise the post workout nutrition. About 30 mins after workout, I’ll sip on a high calorie shake (with whey protein), and for over a period of about 4 hours I’ll take several gulps every hour, then move onto solids every two hours.
I usually feel totally drained after every leg and back workout, but it’s never to the point of actually just falling asleep whenever I get home. I usually feel tired but satisfied and uplifted if that makes any sense.
[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
I usually feel totally drained after every leg and back workout, but it’s never to the point of actually just falling asleep whenever I get home. I usually feel tired but satisfied and uplifted if that makes any sense.[/quote]
Of course there are days where i feel uplifted, actually today even though my legs were fucked, stairs really sucked, i still felt pretty good. Maybe due to enough sleep. Im going to guess lack of sleep really is playing the biggest factor now that i think of it.
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
Interesting, what do you do – fast digesting carbs and protein before and after, then a meal?? [/quote]
Honestly? I drink 1 pint of milk upon wakening, an hour later another pint, then 30mins later, workout with a “sugary” drink - it’s THAT complicated I guess I could argue that the casein protein in milk is slowly digested and therefore keeps me in a positive nitrogen balance for longer…but no, it’s just cause it’s convenient (and it seems to work) lol
Like I said, I always emphasise the post workout nutrition. About 30 mins after workout, I’ll sip on a high calorie shake (with whey protein), and for over a period of about 4 hours I’ll take several gulps every hour, then move onto solids every two hours.[/quote]
Haha really? Thats all you have for breakfast, before your workout? I suppose mine aint much better, but i usually wake up and am in the gym within 1-1.5hrs.
Oh and i tried reducing the amount of food. Made me SOOO shaky, i had to buy another shake I guess i need either more protein or more complex carbs. I had a coffee, then p30p60 shake. And tried to just have water. But 3 sets into squats i felt shaky and tired. So i bought a protein shake p30 and felt better afterwards. Probably due to the sugar rush. I might start having oats with protein powder and hour before. Then going. I also tried protein and fats before the gym once. NEVER do that!! I threw up afterwards from the body not digesting it properly. NEVER AGAIN!!
I have a mass gainer with p30p30 that i have usually and 30g WMS, could the WMS be the problem or just TOO MUCH fast digesting carbs??
Might try –
Wake up - oats + protein powder (no carbs) 1.5 hrs before.
30 mins before and during - 2 serves mass gainer + 1 serve WMS starch (p60p90)
Immediately after - whole milk, banana, peanut butter, protein powder (no carbs)
An hour after - meat + potatoes
Another thought – could the fact that i tend to finish my pre-during shake within 10 mins of entering the gym? Should i possibly drink half before, then sip the rest + water until 45 mins in, maybe spiking my blood sugar a little less?? Would it make that bigger difference?
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]pro-a-ggression wrote:
Interesting, what do you do – fast digesting carbs and protein before and after, then a meal?? [/quote]
Honestly? I drink 1 pint of milk upon wakening, an hour later another pint, then 30mins later, workout with a “sugary” drink - it’s THAT complicated I guess I could argue that the casein protein in milk is slowly digested and therefore keeps me in a positive nitrogen balance for longer…but no, it’s just cause it’s convenient (and it seems to work) lol
Like I said, I always emphasise the post workout nutrition. About 30 mins after workout, I’ll sip on a high calorie shake (with whey protein), and for over a period of about 4 hours I’ll take several gulps every hour, then move onto solids every two hours.[/quote]
Haha really? Thats all you have for breakfast, before your workout? I suppose mine aint much better, but i usually wake up and am in the gym within 1-1.5hrs.
Oh and i tried reducing the amount of food. Made me SOOO shaky, i had to buy another shake I guess i need either more protein or more complex carbs. I had a coffee, then p30p60 shake. And tried to just have water. But 3 sets into squats i felt shaky and tired. So i bought a protein shake p30 and felt better afterwards. Probably due to the sugar rush. I might start having oats with protein powder and hour before. Then going. I also tried protein and fats before the gym once. NEVER do that!! I threw up afterwards from the body not digesting it properly. NEVER AGAIN!!
I have a mass gainer with p30p30 that i have usually and 30g WMS, could the WMS be the problem or just TOO MUCH fast digesting carbs??
Might try –
Wake up - oats + protein powder (no carbs) 1.5 hrs before.
30 mins before and during - 2 serves mass gainer + 1 serve WMS starch (p60p90)
Immediately after - whole milk, banana, peanut butter, protein powder (no carbs)
An hour after - meat + potatoes
Another thought – could the fact that i tend to finish my pre-during shake within 10 mins of entering the gym? Should i possibly drink half before, then sip the rest + water until 45 mins in, maybe spiking my blood sugar a little less?? Would it make that bigger difference?[/quote]
Wow that’s a right load of text/questions
Experiment and find out what works best, but that sounds like a great plan (oats in morning are good for energy/mood).
Just remember, “energy” in the morning/preworkout/during workout…then “build up” after the workout. It doesn’t have to be complicated - I used to worry a lot about the ratios etc but all that matters is that you have something overall (especially in the 3 or 4 hour “window” post workout). And like you said, high fat before workout is a very bad thing.
Oh, and add a banana to your breakfast/pre-workout too, it aids muscle contractions (potassium).