[quote]edwardhuntington wrote:
I actually linked to something that would have added to the discussion… but it was from a bodybuilding forum on a competing website… and I was told I can’t do that and the comment was deleted.
What it said was that fasted cardio misses the point… here’s the quote without the link (Alan Aragon)
“On the surface, it seems logical to separate carbs from cardio if you want a maximal degree of fat oxidation to occur during training. But, thereâ??s the underlying mistake - focusing on stored fuel usage during training instead of focusing on optimally partitioning exogenous fuel for maximal lipolytic effect around the clock. Put another way, itâ??s a better objective to coincide your carb intake with your dayâ??s thermic peaks, where insulin sensitivity & lean tissue reception to carbs is highest. For some reason, this logic is not easily accepted, nor understood. As we know, human physiology doesnâ??t always cooperate with logic or popular opinion, so letâ??s scrutinize the science behind the claims.”
So I guess that’s the point I was trying to discuss in the first place. [/quote]
Most people cannot time their meals perfectly. If you can, more power to you. Most of this science and bro-science discussed is based on crappy studies and has changed so much in my lifetime that I take it all with a grain of salt.
Fasted cardio works. Fasted cardio is easy to fit in most peoples lives. Wake up, piss, walk, run or jump rope for 30-45 minutes. Eat a breakfast that suits your goals. Get on with the day. You will feel great.
Lift as usual.
If you lift first thing in the morning then perhaps fasted cardio isn’t for you and you should add cardio in the early evening.
I think fasted cardio or fat burning zone cardio has it’s place and it’s with guys who are already lean. If you’re looking to lose a lot of weight and not just tighten up then I would consider interval cardio or maybe some barbell complexes or circuits or better yet each of them.
When much weight needs to be lost I think the calorie input/output is more important than keeping your heart beat at a certain rate. Also, you burn fat in the hours after your training not so much while training.
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I think fasted cardio or fat burning zone cardio has it’s place and it’s with guys who are already lean. If you’re looking to lose a lot of weight and not just tighten up then I would consider interval cardio or maybe some barbell complexes or circuits or better yet each of them.
When much weight needs to be lost I think the calorie input/output is more important than keeping your heart beat at a certain rate. Also, you burn fat in the hours after your training not so much while training. [/quote]
In my experience fat guys can’t handle interval stuff or complexes. Fat dudes need to cleanup the diet, lift and walk.
I don’t know the OP’s situation but intervals and complexes may screw up his training.
Depending on the size of the person, I wouldn’t recommend too much ‘impact’ cardio stuff. So I would suggest starting off the a rowing machine, walking, yoga, pilates, whatever gets your heart rate up and won’t grind yourself into oblivion.
[quote]gregron wrote:
why the hell would you stop lifting while trying to drop fat? No one is substituting FMC for lifting. You’re supposed to do both. If you’re dieting to get extremely lean you’re going to need lifting and cardio.
and for the record… you do sound kinda lazy. You’re going to have to try different things out and see what works for you cause everyone is different and everyones body reacts differently.[/quote]
True
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
IMO, it makes sense for FMC to keep insulin as low as possible as these sessions are dedicated to using stored fat.
For intervals, since you’re going for EPOC and not kcal burned, I’d fuel those sessions for maximizing EPOC.[/quote]
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
IMO, it makes sense for FMC to keep insulin as low as possible as these sessions are dedicated to using stored fat.
For intervals, since you’re going for EPOC and not kcal burned, I’d fuel those sessions for maximizing EPOC.[/quote]
Reasearch shows that by ingesting whey before fasted cardio, you burn round 300cals post exercise more than if you do your cardio fasted. This obviously determines that you should not do fasted acrio if your goal is fat loss…
BBB[/quote]
BBB - But what if all those fears of “overnight catabolism” were, in fact, unfounded? What about the research suggesting postprandial amino release continuing ~10-12 hours after a whole, mixed foods meal? What if everything “they” told us about 6-8+ meals (shakes in between) was mostly to benefit them, and not any actual training individual??
I’m confused by this part of the OP: “Does anybody do it by itself in place of all other types of training”
Do you mean does anyone use this exclusively for conditioning work? If so, then I think the answer would be no. It has it’s purpose…but I don’t think anyone does it exclusively.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
IMO, it makes sense for FMC to keep insulin as low as possible as these sessions are dedicated to using stored fat.
For intervals, since you’re going for EPOC and not kcal burned, I’d fuel those sessions for maximizing EPOC.[/quote]
Reasearch shows that by ingesting whey before fasted cardio, you burn round 300cals post exercise more than if you do your cardio fasted. This obviously determines that you should not do fasted acrio if your goal is fat loss.
If you don’t have some circulating insulin, you casnnot protect muscle tissue from being catabolised (which is probably where the 300cals discrepancy comes from), which is another reason never to do fasted cardio.
IMO, fasted cardio is outdated, inefficiant and excessively catabolic to muscle tissue.
Sure the old “But, BBers have been doing it for years” argument will come into play. Hey., if you want to ignore scientific reason and research and use the ‘old school’ ways be my guest.
However, these days we have easy access to thinks like leucine, EAA, whey hydro, etc, etc so why no utilise them to do a better job that they did 40 years ago.
Just my opinion
BBB[/quote]
Cool stuff BBB. I guess the best way will be to find out for myself which one is better. Good thing I have 10#s of BCAAs sitting around(literally).
^^ Just raising the idea that the original premise (that one wakes up in “catabolic mode” following the overnight fast) may not even be true in the first place.
Check out Berkhan’s leangains blog if you haven’t already, esp his post on “dispelling the myths about fasting,” – illuminating info
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Reasearch shows that by ingesting whey before fasted cardio, you burn round 300cals post exercise more than if you do your cardio fasted.
Just my opinion
BBB[/quote]
The recommendations I have read are 10-15 grams prior to morning/fasted cardio. This is much less than most lifters would assume.
Has anyone tried taking BCAAs or whey protein and then running or doing something else pretty intense? I’ve started running a couple of mornings a week, not for fat loss necessarily but that would be a nice side effect. I think I’d puke if I drank a whey shake before going for a run, but then again, I’ve never tried it.
In my experience, FMC always worked well but I never had reason to “use” it for longer than a week or so at a time, so I never really concluded much. For me. But now, six weeks into this whole IF thing, I’ve been (unintentionally) getting in a ton of FMC since my feeding window is generally 1pm-9pm.
From this, I’ve experienced noticeable fat loss (and with this 16-8 protocol, it often feels like I’m not even trying to “diet”) and perhaps more importantly, no muscle loss (this is assumed, based on no strength loss across the board, period)
So by now, I’m feeling like all those years of 2scoops whey + milk IMMEDIATELY UPON WAKING was kind of silly after all. For me.
