Ok, how about this: You don’t like it/the idea of it/don’t want to do it?
Then don’t do it and move on.
[quote]beaul wrote:
Cardio for more appetite just sounds funny. I have a hard enough time controlling my appetite while gaining.
My best fat loss weeks are from fasted cardio in the AM and lifting in the PM. But I think the same can be accomplished by doing PM cardio. I just like to relax after work and lifting, not do cardio.
Bottom line, I think if someone did 100 days of cardio fasted, then 100 days of cardio not fasted. There would be very very minuscule differences in the grand scheme. This is assuming low intensity cardio is being performed.[/quote]
Very miniscule differences is what seperates people in their level of their sport.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Professor X wrote:
That is a completely individual thing.
I concur, long before I found the weight room, I used to run 8-10 miles 3x a week. I was never hungry afterwards. Is this an individual thing? Was this because it was steady state? Or Was this because the duration of the stress was so prolonged? All I know is that when I do heavy weights, or HIIT cardio, I can’t stuff my face fast enough afterwards.
S
[/quote]
Running 8-10 miles even at 5 mph for a 200lb + guy isn’t my idea of low intensity cardio.
I tried different approaches with fasted AM cardio, using both high and low intensities. When I used high intensity, both my size and strength went to total shit. Not to mention, I did get a little leaner, but still didnt reach the degree of leanness I was after. When I tried low intensity cardio, I can’t say I saw much of an effect, after all, how many calories could I burn walking on a treadmill?
I tried dropping my AM fasted cardio and saw myself lean out both faster and more effectively. My cardio was also more intense when not fasted, and not in the morning, perhaps my CNS was more prepared for it when I am not yawning in the morning.
I think this becomes more of a trial and error method, and I have learned that I both look and feel better when NOT doing fasted AM cardio.
We are debating 2 things here…
1)Fasted cardio when trying to lean down
2)Fasted cardio while bulking
[quote]zraw wrote:
steel_12 wrote:
fasted cardio is big no for me, and unless you are over 20% bf, dont do it.IMO(and experience), it causes too much strength and size losses, and not much fat loss.
you must have been doing this in a very stupid manner than.
[/quote]
maybe…i used to do it moderate-high intensity for 30-45 min 4 times a week,2 years ago.tbh, it affected my strength more than anything.i hated it, stopped it quickly and will never do it again.
But, if i ever were to do fasted cardio again, i would go down the extremely low intensity cardio like brisk walking. i think that the low intensity will mobilize energy from fat rather than muscle.
And tbh, who would do fasted cardio when trying to put on mass? I mean if you are trying to maximise lean gains and minimize fat gains, focus on progressing; training with extreme intensity and adding weight to the bar every week.HIIT maybe, to maximize GH output but 1-2 times week max.fasted cardio floods your body with cortisol which is the last thing youd want when trying to add muscle.
[quote]steel_12 wrote:
And tbh, who would do fasted cardio when trying to put on mass? [/quote]
Hmmmm, couple of guys doing DC…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
zraw wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
b) It makes most people hungrier during the day which is actually quite useful when trying to become a 300 lbs bodybuilder.
Why would someone be concerned about fasted cardio if the goal was to gain more muscle? Cardio at all is going to make someone that big hungrier. Hell, breathing is going to make someone that size hungrier because you don’t get to be that size unless you are one hungry son of a bitch most of the time.
To control fat gains…but you probably knew the answer anyways while you typed
…gee, that’s what we are arguing here. No one has proven you somehow lose more body fat by doing cardio on an empty stomach. Your overall daily caloric intake must be higher to gain anyway so why would someone think they will somehow only lose body fat by doing cardio first thing in the morning while gaining weight all day long?
[/quote]
True. But there are some other factors to consider.
First, doing AM cardio gets the metabolism going and at least judging from anecdotal evidence seems to increase insulin sensitivity and appetite (You said this doesn’t happen with you, so obviously it’s not a rule, just the norm).
Second, doing AM cardio (or cardio at any time of the day really) will increase the amount of calories that you can eat throughout the day (as you said, it’s a matter of calories out vs calories in) without having those calories spill over into bf. The theory is “better to eat too many calories and keep bf in check via cardio, than to risk not eating enough calories and not gaining muscle”.
Third, doing cardio in the AM means that you don’t have to do it post workout. Depending on what program you’re doing, performing 30+ minutes of cardio immediately post exercise might be the last thing that you’d want to do. By splitting up your cardio and resistance training you avoid this problem, but still get your cardio in.
Now, whether doing it fasted is superior to say taking some BCAA’s, I don’t know. I recall Justin Harris mentioning that fasted morning cardio was the most likely/efficient way to mobilize/burn fat (second being post workout and third being some other time of the day), but I can’t recall exactly why. I’ll have to see if I can find his explanation.
If I do any exercise in the morning (weight training, HIIT, steady-state cardio), it increases my appetite substanially for the rest of the day.
I normally train in the evenings, and I have to wait about an hour or so before I can eat (after drinking my Surge), as I can’t stomach anything right away.
If I go more than two hours after my Surge, then I begin to get extreme hunger and have to eat right away. But after that meal, I’m fine. Whereas, if I were to train in the morning, I’d be hungry the whole day (even if eating 5-6 meals throughout).
As for cardio, do what you like!
Lowery wrote extensively on this subject.
Try reading his article 100 Workouts from ripped city.
Also Lyle Mcdonald wrote about pros and cons of HIIT and LowInt cardio, and made some good points unlike black/white-minded HIIT supporters or low.int.cardio haters (Cosgrove and co.)
But but but but John Basedow says do 50 min of fasted cardio every morning. LOL.