great vids and work. looks like u will need a longer bar soon
WB - Thanks. I am currently looking into a new bar or bigger plates. I don’t want an olympic bar because all my plates have 1" holes.
07/03/2011
Paused Squats off 10" box
132 x 3
220 x 3
286 x 3
352 x 3
363 x 3
Partial squat
440 x 2
484 x FAIL
Squat negative
506 x 1
Squat with chains (68 lbs at the top, 30 lbs at the bottom)
286 + chains x 5-5
GHR @ bw x 5-5-5-5
Leg curls @ 80 lbs x 5-5-5-5
Ab rollouts (off knees) x 5-5-5
First time I’ve ever had 500+ on my back. I managed to lower it no problem, now all I need to do is learn to lift it back up!
The chains worked well. Could do with a bit of extra weight at the top though.
363 x 3 (paused) then 506 x negative then 286 + chains x 5 reps
Nice.
Cool! I am hoping to get chains of my own this week.
Ya think??? (note abudant sarcasm)
And it’s ice to see I’m not the only fawning groupie around here. The work with the chains was very cool to see, too.
I have a question about stance. As ya’ know I’m working on improving my depth, and I note you keep a relatively narrow stance. What’s your thoughts on the whol width of foot placement issue?
And what kind of farm are you running, by the way?
[quote]Canada_K wrote:
I have a question about stance. As ya’ know I’m working on improving my depth, and I note you keep a relatively narrow stance. What’s your thoughts on the whol width of foot placement issue?
[/quote]
My squat and deadlift stance and bench grip is just what feels most comfortable and natural to me. I like Dan John’s idea of setting up as if to do a vertical jump (the natural position you would get in to display max power) and use that. The whole wide stance squat (and sumo deadlift) thing is just a technique used by powerlifters to shorten the lift’s ROM drastically and thereby lift more weight. If you dropped something and had to squat down to pick it up you wouldn’t take a really wide stance, point your toes out to 45 degrees and “spread the floor” while sitting back would you?. It’s just a totally unnatural movement. I hate to use the word functional because it’s been hijacked and abused by these Bosu ball morons, but I think a narrower shoulder width type stance is a much more natural position to squat in with a greater carryover to sports and general life. But in the end it has to be whatever you’re most comfortable with.
08/03/2011
Hill sprints 10 x 35 yards
It was a lovely clear, cold evening. The dog came out with me. In her younger days she would have run up and down with me, but she’s getting on now (she’s 12) so she participated in her own way by taking a steaming dump right next to where I stand between reps. Lovely.
Inside for pancakes.
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
My squat and deadlift stance and bench grip is just what feels most comfortable and natural to me. I like Dan John’s idea of setting up as if to do a vertical jump (the natural position you would get in to display max power) and use that. The whole wide stance squat (and sumo deadlift) thing is just a technique used by powerlifters to shorten the lift’s ROM drastically and thereby lift more weight. If you dropped something and had to squat down to pick it up you wouldn’t take a really wide stance, point your toes out to 45 degrees and “spread the floor” while sitting back would you?. It’s just a totally unnatural movement. I hate to use the word functional because it’s been hijacked and abused by these Bosu ball morons, but I think a narrower shoulder width type stance is a much more natural position to squat in with a greater carryover to sports and general life. But in the end it has to be whatever you’re most comfortable with.
[/quote]
I used to squat more upright, with a more shoulder width stance, and you are definitely correct when you say the wider stance allows more weight, its almost feeling too easy lately using the new stance, with my old stance’s numbers for my 5/3/1 cycle. But They say, if you want to squat big, you have to squat with your butt, not your quads, and to do that, you have to lean more, and to do that, you have to be a bit wider, especially if you are like the behemoth Lifters with a gut the size of your above mentioned Bosu ball.
[quote]Ogre21793 wrote:
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
My squat and deadlift stance and bench grip is just what feels most comfortable and natural to me. I like Dan John’s idea of setting up as if to do a vertical jump (the natural position you would get in to display max power) and use that. The whole wide stance squat (and sumo deadlift) thing is just a technique used by powerlifters to shorten the lift’s ROM drastically and thereby lift more weight. If you dropped something and had to squat down to pick it up you wouldn’t take a really wide stance, point your toes out to 45 degrees and “spread the floor” while sitting back would you?. It’s just a totally unnatural movement. I hate to use the word functional because it’s been hijacked and abused by these Bosu ball morons, but I think a narrower shoulder width type stance is a much more natural position to squat in with a greater carryover to sports and general life. But in the end it has to be whatever you’re most comfortable with.
[/quote]
I used to squat more upright, with a more shoulder width stance, and you are definitely correct when you say the wider stance allows more weight, its almost feeling too easy lately using the new stance, with my old stance’s numbers for my 5/3/1 cycle. But They say, if you want to squat big, you have to squat with your butt, not your quads, and to do that, you have to lean more, and to do that, you have to be a bit wider, especially if you are like the behemoth Lifters with a gut the size of your above mentioned Bosu ball.
[/quote]
Glad to hear the weight is shooting up for you, but are you sure you are actually getting stronger or is the weight going up because now you’ve widened your stance you’re moving the bar less of a distance? It goes without saying that the smaller the ROM the more weight you can handle. There’s a clip on the Powerlifting forum showing a 17 yr old deadlifting an insane amount of weight, but if you notice he locks it out at barely knee level. Compare that to Andy Bolton who lifts conventional who locks out at mid to upper thigh and look at the difference in the distance the bar travels, one hell of a difference. I’m not saying that one style is better than the other just that when you test strength increases it has to be on exactly the same lift over the same ROM to be meaningful.
I agree with what you are saying, one of the reasons I started squatting more leaned over is so that my posterior would get stronger. My knees were caving in in the “more upright” stance more than they do now. I don’t know if I am stronger than I was, I do know the squatting is a bit easier this way, but I don’t really think the ROM is too much different than it was before. I am not doing a “sumo squat” like the big guys do… my feet are probably 6 inches wider than they used to be, the main difference is my leaning more,(which i can do without super wide stance, because I don’t have the huge gut) and my knees tracking laterally more than they used to, and less anteriorly. My knees used to go out past my toes a few inches, now they stay behind my toes, which I hear is safer on the knees. Less shearing force, like that in leg extensions. I have a vid up of my last squat set on monday in my log, you can see my feet aren’t all that wide, just a bit wider than they used to be.
I really was a quad squatter, and wondered why my hams and butt never were sore ever from squatting along with the quads, now I feel it in both areas more, so I think my legs will be more evenly developed in the end.
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
Glad to hear the weight is shooting up for you, but are you sure you are actually getting stronger or is the weight going up because now you’ve widened your stance you’re moving the bar less of a distance? [/quote]
I’m not sure that this is a meaningful statement. We all know the rules of squat, bench, and DL. If you can find a way to widen your stance in squat and DL or widen your grip in bench and drive up your numbers, I don’t think that’s saying that you’re not getting stronger because you’ve changed some variable and shortened the bar path. There are trade-offs and downsides to decreased bar distance on all three. Many people cannot hit depth with a really wide-stance squat. A really wide-grip bench can wreak havoc on the shoulders. And many people’s hips get totally chewed up with a wide stance on DL.
But I’ll admit that I look at it from a competitive powerlifter’s standpoint. I wanna lift more weight while still getting white lights. If I can do that, then I’m getting stronger regardless of what variables I change.
Firstly Ogre, I re-read my first post to you and it did sound like I was pissing on your gains which I didn’t intend. Sorry.
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
But I’ll admit that I look at it from a competitive powerlifter’s standpoint. I wanna lift more weight while still getting white lights. If I can do that, then I’m getting stronger regardless of what variables I change.[/quote]
KP you are MOST DEFINITELY looking at this with your competitive powerlifter’s hat on. As I see it, as someone who just lifts without a competitive element, there is “getting stronger” and “putting more weight on the bar” and they are different. As you know there are many ways to lift more weight including shortening the range of movement by widening the stance on squat and DL and arching the back on bench etc and that other thing I will not mention on this site any more. (once bitten twice shy). All of which may result in an increase of weight on the bar without necessarily any corresponding increase in strength.
Strength is extremely specific, to a particular movement pattern, ROM and even, velocity. This is the reason why strength gains in sumo don’t “necessarily” (I’m not saying they can’t) carryover to conventional, front squat to back squat because while being the same lift in name they are completely different. In studies isometric holds have been shown to only increase strength over the specific tiny degree of movement they were trained over!!
For example if someone wanted to research methods of increasing strength in the hamstrings and tested the participants at the beginning on one leg curl machine, trained them for 16 weeks and then tested them again at the end on a different machine, you can understand that the results would be meaningless because the machines are completely different.
Therefore, I argue that sudden gains in strength on new exercises (regardless of how minimal the difference may seem) cannot be compared to “old” exercises and are more likely attributable to an improvement in motor learning or just down to adopting a more anatomically suitable position for that person’s build.
Anyway going back to Ogre’s squat increases, the only way to truly determine if he has gained strength (in the truest sense of the word) is to go back and test himself in exactly the way he used to squat.
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
My squat and deadlift stance and bench grip is just what feels most comfortable and natural to me. I like Dan John’s idea of setting up as if to do a vertical jump (the natural position you would get in to display max power) and use that. [/quote]
I think this is one of the better explanations I’ve received. Thanks for that.
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
KP you are MOST DEFINITELY looking at this with your competitive powerlifter’s hat on. As I see it, as someone who just lifts without a competitive element, there is “getting stronger” and “putting more weight on the bar” and they are different. As you know there are many ways to lift more weight including shortening the range of movement by widening the stance on squat and DL and arching the back on bench etc and that other thing I will not mention on this site any more. (once bitten twice shy). All of which may result in an increase of weight on the bar without necessarily any corresponding increase in strength.
Strength is extremely specific, to a particular movement pattern, ROM and even, velocity. This is the reason why strength gains in sumo don’t “necessarily” (I’m not saying they can’t) carryover to conventional, front squat to back squat because while being the same lift in name they are completely different. In studies isometric holds have been shown to only increase strength over the specific tiny degree of movement they were trained over!!
For example if someone wanted to research methods of increasing strength in the hamstrings and tested the participants at the beginning on one leg curl machine, trained them for 16 weeks and then tested them again at the end on a different machine, you can understand that the results would be meaningless because the machines are completely different.
Therefore, I argue that sudden gains in strength on new exercises (regardless of how minimal the difference may seem) cannot be compared to “old” exercises and are more likely attributable to an improvement in motor learning or just down to adopting a more anatomically suitable position for that person’s build.
Anyway going back to Ogre’s squat increases, the only way to truly determine if he has gained strength (in the truest sense of the word) is to go back and test himself in exactly the way he used to squat.
[/quote]
I fully understand where you’re coming from. Really. And I understand that you’re a purist. But I think we’re all making microadjustments to our lifts all the time. Changing foot placement, altering hand placement, improving the arch, driving with our feet, keeping our chest more upright, bouncing outta the hole, not to mention changes in weight, diet, etc. So to say that the variables cannot change at all to obtain an accurate strength comparison is not realistic in my book. The bottom line is that a squat has to break parallel and a DL has to lock out without hitching. Playing with foot placement, etc. is just part of the process.
That being said, I’ll say what I think you’re not willing to say: That powerlifters are forever looking for how they can “cheat” in a legally sanctioned way. Is that correct? And you know what? I agree. But I just see it as an inevitable part of the sport. And different feds merely allow different levels of “cheating.”
I really like that we can debate on this forum without becoming negative towards each other. I hope you see it that way, FB. As you well know, I am a big fan of your lifting.
I’ll have to wait for FB to reply, but I doubt that is what he meant. I think he meant stronger in the “more torque generated at the joint” kind of way. With relatively minor adjustments to technique like the ones you mentioned, the amount of weight you can lift is a reasonably consistent measure of this ability. With major changes however, as in switching from conventional to sumo, weight lifted is no longer as closely related to torque generated.
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
That being said, I’ll say what I think you’re not willing to say: That powerlifters are forever looking for how they can “cheat” in a legally sanctioned way. Is that correct? And you know what? I agree. But I just see it as an inevitable part of the sport. And different feds merely allow different levels of “cheating.”
[/quote]
Carl you are absolutely right. When I spoke of strength I meant the contractile ability of a muscle to exert force and because of it’s specific nature it can only be measured to have improved if measured in exactly the same way. This is physiological fact. If someone changes their squat stance by six inches and gets stronger very quickly, especially if they have been training many years, I’d say the gains are likely to be neurological in nature rather than adaptations in the strength of the actual muscles involved.
KP I was only using the sumo/conventional bit as an example. In fact I wasn’t talking in a powerlifting context at all, purely a physiological one. I admit I am a bit of a purist and I know I have said things in the past regarding gear, shortening the ROMs of lifts etc, but that was when I was new to the site. Now I feel I know people on the over35 forum better I respect and am fully supportive of everyone regardless of their, how shall I put it?, competitive style. I have no agenda or axe to grind in fact I try to stay clear of any sort of talk these days that may inflame opinion. I was not having a dig at powerlifting. Maybe you read that into it because of what I’ve said in the past?
BTW I respect your lifting too.
09/03/2011
Bench Press
132 x 10
220 x 2
264 x 1
308 x 1 (new PR)
319 x FAIL
220 x 10-5-5
Face Pulls @ 88 lbs x 10-10-10
DB Press with 53’lbers x 12-7-6
Shrugs @ 330 lbs x 10-10-10
Pushdowns @ 99 lbs x 6-6-6-6
Finally broke my bench PR of 302 lbs set in 2000 back when I had a training partner and a lift off. It came off the chest fairly easily and once I got it 4" off I knew I was going to be able to lock it out.
I don’t know if the fact that I put a pair of 10 kg plates on either end instead of a 20 helped psychologically. It definitely looked lighter. The 300 lb barrier has been a real mental block for me. Hopefully it’s now onwards and upwards towards a 330 by the end of the year. Too early to say if the lockouts and pause on chest stuff were responsible, but it’s definitely worth carrying on with them for another month or so.
Read a lot of stuff recently how upper back and trap strength is important for a raw bench, so threw in some shrugs. I’ve decided to do shrugs and face pulls everytime I bench for balance.
Great PR! all kinds of rows are great for the upper back too
No PR bench video??? Great bench Brett.
wtg on the PR. its funny how much of a role your mental state plays into what you can physically lift.