EyeDentist, How Do You Train?

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
How do you feel about being a slow runner these days? (you look like you were fairly quick back in the day). I ran competitively for about 7 years won road races etc. I like to run on occasion, but it definitely hurts the pride running slow and getting passed frequently.
[/quote]

Funny you should ask. I was a respectable road runner back in the day–not a threat to crack the top 3 (much less win), but fast enough to make the top 20 in local races (eg, sub-37 10K). And when I first started running in earnest again, it felt to me like I was clipping along at a 7:30-8 min/mile pace–not too bad for an old guy, I thought. Then I got a Garmin GPS wrist unit, and discovered to my chagrin that I was actually going 9:30-10 min/mile. It was depressing, to put it mildly. And yeah, I get passed a lot. But I get honked at a lot more than the other guys do. ;^)

[quote]
Second question. I might have missed it, but how do you target your upper chest? [/quote]

First let me say what I’m NOT doing, what I’ve never been able to do–regular incline bench. Simply put, my shoulders have never been able to tolerate this movement; I can’t even do the bar without pain. (I believe I damaged my rotator cuffs very early in my lifting career by doing those stupid close-grip upright rows.)

Now for what I am doing. Currently, I’m doing three upper-chest exercises:

–60o close-grip inclines (on the Smith machine)
–Decline guillotines, also on the Smith. (I know it sounds counterintuitive, but decline guillotines are the single-most-effective upper-chest exercise I’ve ever done.)
–Single-arm HS incline presses. If I do these the normal way, I feel them only in my anterior delts. Instead, I sit almost sideways on the seat so that I’m pushing the handle across my chest. My ROM is limited to the contracted half of the movement (ie, I never go into the ‘stretch’ position, except to put the weight down). I really focus on squeezing the upper pec at the top of the movement. (I place my free hand on my upper pec to help with the mind-muscle connection.)

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
How do you feel about being a slow runner these days? (you look like you were fairly quick back in the day). I ran competitively for about 7 years won road races etc. I like to run on occasion, but it definitely hurts the pride running slow and getting passed frequently.
[/quote]

Funny you should ask. I was a respectable road runner back in the day–not a threat to crack the top 3 (much less win), but fast enough to make the top 20 in local races (eg, sub-37 10K). And when I first started running in earnest again, it felt to me like I was clipping along at a 7:30-8 min/mile pace–not too bad for an old guy, I thought. Then I got a Garmin GPS wrist unit, and discovered to my chagrin that I was actually going 9:30-10 min/mile. It was depressing, to put it mildly. And yeah, I get passed a lot. But I get honked at a lot more than the other guys do. ;^)

I might stomp on my watch if it told me I was running 10 minute miles. :slight_smile: That being said I’m never timing myself, because I probably do run in the 9/10 min range. At this point in my life. I don’t really care about running fast or gasp looking remotely like a distance runner. Being in good condition is much more important and you have definitely nailed the conditioning part.

I’ll have to incorporate some of those exercises. Thanks for the reply.

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
(I believe I damaged my rotator cuffs very early in my lifting career by doing those stupid close-grip upright rows.)

[/quote]

Very informative. My coach gave me a list of high-risk/low-reward exercises and this is one of them. He said I may not feel the negative effects early on but I’ll probably pay the price later in life. To see a real-world example is enlightening.

I have even more respect for him now and for guys like you who find solutions to problems and drive on.

[quote]MinotaurXXX wrote:

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
(I believe I damaged my rotator cuffs very early in my lifting career by doing those stupid close-grip upright rows.)

[/quote]

Very informative. My coach gave me a list of high-risk/low-reward exercises and this is one of them. He said I may not feel the negative effects early on but I’ll probably pay the price later in life. To see a real-world example is enlightening.

I have even more respect for him now and for guys like you who find solutions to problems and drive on.
[/quote]

What were they?

[quote]ishinator wrote:

[quote]MinotaurXXX wrote:

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
(I believe I damaged my rotator cuffs very early in my lifting career by doing those stupid close-grip upright rows.)

[/quote]

Very informative. My coach gave me a list of high-risk/low-reward exercises and this is one of them. He said I may not feel the negative effects early on but I’ll probably pay the price later in life. To see a real-world example is enlightening.

I have even more respect for him now and for guys like you who find solutions to problems and drive on.
[/quote]

What were they?
[/quote]

One other exercise that he warned me against is the preacher bench curl FIRST on arms day. He said the bench essentially locks the arm into position and can put unnecessary stress on the bicep tendon. He doesn’t have a problem doing it later in the session for some people.

He gets really technical at times but he knows more about injury prevention than anyone I’ve worked with or whose articles I’ve read. It’s his ability to modify any given exercise for an individual.

I don’t think he’ll appreciate it if I blabbed everything he told me. I’ll text him and ask. I went through nearly a dozen trainers before finding him and I don’t want to burn any bridges. Close to seven months with him now and I can train pain free. Having scoliosis all my life and trashed knees from mountain biking like a maniac back in the day, the ability to make gains with nothing more than the occasional DOMS is huge for me.

Apologies for the thread hijack. I promise not to bring this topic up again in this specific thread.

great stuff easy reads. good amount of info

Diet! Let me say at the outset that the plan I developed was an amalgam of concepts put forth by individuals far wiser than me. Astute readers will recognize the ideas of (in no particular order) John Meadows, TC, CT, Kiefer, Shugart, Stu, and others. All I did was synthesize their concepts in a way that made sense to me.

In addition to the ‘What’ of my diet, I will talk at some length about the ‘Why.’ I do this for two reasons: First, because I assume some people will find it interesting; and second, so those more knowledgeable than I can educate me on the points I get wrong.

I knew the main impediment to the success of my cut would be psychological. Specifically, I knew I was doomed to fail if I started feeling chronically deprived. I don’t have nearly so much trouble with feeling intermittently deprived. For example, if I want to average a 500 cal/d deficit over two days, I find it easier to endure a 1000 cal deficit on one day and no deficit the next, rather than running a 500 cal deficit both days. For this reason, I decided to go with a ‘carb/calorie cycling’ approach, wherein some days I’d eat at (or above) maintenance, and others below.

In addition to running a caloric deficit, I also wanted to manage my endogenous insulin levels so as to preserve muscle and maximize fat loss. As most of y’all know, insulin is a potent anabolic hormone–albeit an indiscriminate one, in that it is just as adept at causing adipocyte growth as muscle hypertrophy. (To comprehend the awesome anabolic power of insulin, consider the size of both the current crop of IFBB behemoths and the massively obese individuals moored at your mall food court.)

However, insulin also inhibits fat mobilization; absent exogenous modification of the hormonal milieu (fancy talk for ‘unless you use PEDs’), fat loss simply won’t occur in the context of elevated insulin. So during a cut, there are periods when you want insulin levels to spike (specifically, the post-workout interval), whereas the rest of the time you want it be low (so fat stores will be mobilized and consumed). Further, chronically elevated insulin levels lead to downregulation of target tissues’ responsiveness to it (aka ‘insulin resistance’); this can culminate in type II diabetes in susceptible individuals.

Finally, of all the endogenous pro-growth hormones (hGH, testosterone, IGF, etc), the only one over which we can exert a meaningful degree of control is insulin. For all these reasons, a secondary consideration in how I set up my diet was with respect to optimizing insulin.

The guidelines for my diet shaped up like this:
–I ate at maintenance on days I lifted weights. (I used 15 cals/pound to estimate my maintenance cals. This ballparked to about 3000 cals.)
–I ate 1/2 to 2/3 maintenance (1500-2000 cals) on days I did not lift. Because of the 1:1 ratio of lifting-to-nonlifting days in my exercise protocol, this produced an average daily deficit in the 500-750 cal range.

Now for the insulin. I wanted to keep it as low as possible, except during the intra/post-lifting period. In that regard, the next guideline is obvious:
–No intentional carbs except intra- and post-weightlifting.

However, carbs are not the only foodstuff that promote insulin release; certain amino acids are also highly insulinogenic (in particular the BCAAs, and especially leucine). Thus, in addition to limiting carbs to the intra/post-exercise period, I did the same with protein (although I was less adamant about it, and would eat protein pre-exercise if the situation made doing so necessary). The guideline:
–Avoid protein except intra/post-exercise.

Obviously, banning carbs and protein leaves only two nutritional options for the pre-workout period–eat fat, or fast. Fasting is tough for me, so I elected to eat fat, in the form of natty peanut butter. It’s a fantastic food–contains good fats, is savory and delicious, and (best of all) is quite filling/satiating.

Putting it all together, a typical lifting day would look (does look) like this:
For breakfast I have 2-3 tbsp of PB along with coffee (which is a great appetite suppressant; I sip on coffee all morning at work). I keep PB and a tablespoon in my office at work, and will have 1-2 more tbsp if I get hungry during the work day. I’m usually at the gym by 3P. I bring a carb + protein intra-workout drink with me, and start sipping it after my first work-set of the day. (Out of respect for our Biotest hosts, I’ll refrain from going into detail about the drink, other than to say it is a poor man’s version of Plazma.) As soon as I get home, I eat some yummy simple carbs–usually a couple of toasted cinnamon-raisin bagels, one with a banana and maple syrup, the other with grape jelly. For the rest of the evening I’ll eat carbs and protein (lean, as I’ve already ingested a lot of fat via the PB) until I hit my macros/cals for the day. I shoot for .9-1g protein/pound, and fill in the remainder of my cals with carbs.

A typical nonlifting day starts the same way–coffee and PB. The only difference is that, post exercise (ie, running or conditioning), I’ll have protein and more fat–no intentional carbs. My protein goal on nonlifting days is lower and more flexible, in the 120-160 g range.

In addition to its salutary effects on insulin, backloading calories in this manner is easier psychologically. I’m usually too preoccupied at work to notice I’m hungry, so I don’t ‘need’ to eat then. And it really helps to have a large number of calories available in the evening, so it feels like I’m eating more like a ‘normal person.’ (This also helps keep me honest about whether I really need that next spoonful of PB during the day, because every spoonful of PB cuts 100 calories from my evening’s repast.)

Diet tl;dr:

  1. Ate maintenance-level cals on lifting days, 1/2 to 2/3 maintenance on nonlifting days.
  2. In order to keep the fat-fires burning, noshed (sparingly) on nothing but PB pre-exercise.
  3. On lifting days, started consuming carbs and lean protein during the workout, and continued until macro/cal goals reached.
  4. On nonlifting days, started consuming protein post-exercise, and continued until macro/cal goals reached.

OK, that’s about the size of it. I’m sure I left out some key points and butchered others, so feel free to ask any questions that arise.

2 Likes

Good stuff.

Just curious…how many days out of a month, on average, do you end up hitting your planned macros/calories (+/- 5%)?

Thanks!

[quote]Serge A. Storms wrote:
Good stuff.

Just curious…how many days out of a month, on average, do you end up hitting your planned macros/calories (+/- 5%)?

Thanks![/quote]

The only days I go over are when I take a cheat meal. I checked my log…Have had 10 cheat meals in the last 5 months.

[quote]EyeDentist wrote:
Diet!

…In addition to running a caloric deficit, I also wanted to manage my endogenous insulin levels so as to preserve muscle and maximize fat loss. As most of y’all know, insulin is a potent anabolic hormone–albeit an indiscriminate one, in that it is just as adept at causing adipocyte growth as muscle hypertrophy. (To comprehend the awesome anabolic power of insulin, consider the size of both the current crop of IFBB behemoths and the massively obese individuals moored at your mall food court.)

However, insulin also inhibits fat mobilization; absent exogenous modification of the hormonal milieu (fancy talk for ‘unless you use PEDs’), fat loss simply won’t occur in the context of elevated insulin. So during a cut, there are periods when you want insulin levels to spike (specifically, the post-workout interval), whereas the rest of the time you want it be low (so fat stores will be mobilized and consumed). Further, chronically elevated insulin levels lead to downregulation of target tissues’ responsiveness to it (aka ‘insulin resistance’); this can culminate in type II diabetes in susceptible individuals.

Finally, of all the endogenous pro-growth hormones (hGH, testosterone, IGF, etc), the only one over which we can exert a meaningful degree of control is insulin. For all these reasons, a secondary consideration in how I set up my diet was with respect to optimizing insulin.
[/quote]

Absolutely love it when smart folks share their informed approaches, mucho thanks!

Interesting to learn about a different approach. I am also a peanut butter fan, although it would be down right dangerous to have a supply under my desk. I have to get my gf to hide all nuts in the house to prevent my demon-possesed binges on nuts.

My question is regarding your copious amounts of sit ups. How do you do your sit -ups? On a swiss ball? Do you use any weight at all? Does it ever bother your lower back?
I ask this as I used to be the “sit up king” when I was a younger and had abs of steel, and then in the past recent years I have taken on the philosophy of “deads, squats and diet will be enough for the ab’s”, but after reading your post on training I am considering adding them back in.

Thanks in advance.

And remember, keep an eye on that fundi!!

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Pretty solid approach, with data to back it up. Only problem would be for some of us who dont have have much time between the workout and going to bed to get most of your macros in, because of workshift, etc.

“Then I decided I’d be ripped at 225#”…

Best line I’ve read in a long, long time.

Great physique and inspirational story, sir! Thanks for sharing.

Are you in keto? Do you carb up? Do you count carb ups as cheats?

[quote]chillain wrote:

Absolutely love it when smart folks share their informed approaches, mucho thanks!
[/quote]

As I said, it’s been my pleasure; I’ve really enjoyed the process of getting this all down on ‘paper.’ Glad you liked it.

[quote]theBird wrote:
Interesting to learn about a different approach. I am also a peanut butter fan, although it would be down right dangerous to have a supply under my desk. I have to get my gf to hide all nuts in the house to prevent my demon-possesed binges on nuts.[/quote]

I know what you mean–my wife has to hide the candy.

I actually don’t do any sit-ups. I do hanging knee raises (ie, with my upper arms tucked into those straps) and crunches. The crunches are done with my butt scooted close to a wall, and my legs extended up the wall. (The idea is to put the legs in a position such that the quads can’t contribute to the movement of the abdomen.) I then simply try to touch the lower margin of my rib cage to the upper margin of my pelvic bone. It’s a very short movement. I never use any added resistance.

1 Like

[quote]GetitUp wrote:
Pretty solid approach, with data to back it up. Only problem would be for some of us who dont have have much time between the workout and going to bed to get most of your macros in, because of workshift, etc. [/quote]

Definitely. Also, for folks who work out in the morning.

[quote]kgildner wrote:
“Then I decided I’d be ripped at 225#”…

Best line I’ve read in a long, long time.

Great physique and inspirational story, sir! Thanks for sharing.[/quote]

You’re welcome. And like so many individuals before me who’ve lost weight in an attempt to get defined, I seriously (and I mean seriously) overestimated how much lean body mass I was carrying. It’s a very humbling aspect of the process. Also, it makes you realize just how massive the guys are who really are ripped at 225# (much less those ripped at 275#!). Take care.

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:
Are you in keto? [/quote]

I’ve never checked, but as I never go more than about 30 hours without carbs, I don’t think I ever enter keto.

[quote]
Do you carb up? Do you count carb ups as cheats?[/quote]

Depends on what counts as a ‘carb up,’ I guess. I eat beaucoup carbs (300-400 g) every other day. As the macros on these days are within the parameters of my diet, I do not count them as cheat days.

I?ve evolved into a very similar diet to yours. Fat through the morning, moderate protein starting in the afternoon. Some carbs around training for hard sessions, and lots of protein at the end of the day.

I keep PB at work too. Only I eat it with kerrygold butter. A spoon of PB with a little butter is the best thing ever.