[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
This takes very sound nutrition and discipline as stated by Robby Robinson. So it is a possibility for a natural to do this.[/quote]
Robby Robinson = Natural
???
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
This takes very sound nutrition and discipline as stated by Robby Robinson. So it is a possibility for a natural to do this.[/quote]
Robby Robinson = Natural
???[/quote]
Lol that one had me scratching my head as well. To be honest, I haven’t done much research on Robby Robinson though.
What’s wrong with not going 20 lbs over contest shape? 
[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
und da seaaaaaa[/quote]
You’re missing one ‘da.’[/quote]
singing and typing at the same time is really hard…especially unda da sea!!!
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
What’s wrong with not going 20 lbs over contest shape? :D[/quote]
Gee, how about the fact that the body needs to be built before the damned contest is even worried about?
LOL
Let’s see…I could see someone on this forum telling 150lbs me not to go 20lbs over contest weight. I am sure that would have got me to my goals.
That is advice for people who are already competing and are already SWOLE. It is not advice for 98% of the people on this forum.
Further, if someone is that swole, I am sure they can figure out whether they are actually gaining mostly muscle from their practices so why would they need that “advice” anyway?
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
What’s wrong with not going 20 lbs over contest shape? :D[/quote]
KB plz this doesn’t apply to you.
IMO, beginners, which I see as those making the initial ‘big gain’, like the one you speak of X (going from 150 to your current size), it’s necessary to push the limit with food intake and be content with gaining a bit of fat to justify the overall mass that you will add to your frame. Ultimately though, I believe that after you make that initial push, things need to be re-thought if you are a competitive bodybuilder. Let’s say you go from 150 to 240, brining your LBM in that period of time from 130 to 190 which would be insane. As a natural, you can really only gain so much muscle mass the way I see it and especially if you are competing, it is smarter to stay closer to your contest weight and make gains slowly after that at a leaner weight.
However, if one prefers to stay heavier and make gains, I don’t see anything wrong with that either, I just don’t believe that they will come that much quicker if at all simply because you weigh more or eat much more than you need to.
I’m not advocating that one ought to stay super shredded all year round, that’s silly and you definitely wouldn’t gain much at all. What I am saying is that I feel that as a competitive BBer that is going to be dieting down, getting in just enough nutrients to grow and not much more is optimal as it will allow you to gain the necessary weight, but not push you over the edge where the gains are simply more fat than muscle.
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
What’s wrong with not going 20 lbs over contest shape? :D[/quote]
x2
I’d rather not spend most of the year as a fat lard.
Now I know PX is going to say “nobody advocates becoming a ‘fat lard’” but I’ve tried it both ways, and for me I only have to eat a little over maintenance to support gains in the gym and stay trim yearround.
If that doesn’t work for you, well than I would try it PX’s way, but being “soft” or “chubby” or whatever you want to call it was no fun for me. I feel a lot better, and I feel better about myself when I’m lean.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
x2
I’d rather not spend most of the year as a fat lard.
Now I know PX is going to say “nobody advocates becoming a ‘fat lard’” but I’ve tried it both ways, and for me I only have to eat a little over maintenance to support gains in the gym and stay trim yearround.
If that doesn’t work for you, well than I would try it PX’s way, but being “soft” or “chubby” or whatever you want to call it was no fun for me. I feel a lot better, and I feel better about myself when I’m lean.[/quote]
Lulz if you’ve tried it both ways you have done it PX’s way and you probably wouldn’t be where you are now without it.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
What’s wrong with not going 20 lbs over contest shape? :D[/quote]
x2
I’d rather not spend most of the year as a fat lard.
Now I know PX is going to say “nobody advocates becoming a ‘fat lard’” but I’ve tried it both ways, and for me I only have to eat a little over maintenance to support gains in the gym and stay trim yearround.
If that doesn’t work for you, well than I would try it PX’s way, but being “soft” or “chubby” or whatever you want to call it was no fun for me. I feel a lot better, and I feel better about myself when I’m lean.[/quote]
Dude, are you really big yet? That is pretty much all that matters. Your results are what should guide your approach, not some dream of perfection. I wouldn’t have bulked up if a lot of muscle and strength wasn’t coming with it.
While the amount of fat you may want to carry is a preference, some of the advice on this forum has become ridiculous. I was just talking to one of the guys who competes superheavy in the NPC (he was at the gym training and I recognized him from the videos on the repetrope website). His response to me was that he would often get close to 20% body fat in the off season (he specifically said, “about 18%”)and has been over 300lbs.
This is someone who is 6’2" 280lbs right now with massive veins down each arm. He may stay leaner now that he is a fucking house…but it would be retarded to ignore the path he took to get there and that it obviously fucking worked for him.
If you are a strict mesomorph and can gain while staying super lean, good for you. But if you do not have genetics like that and are staying lean while sacrificing more gains all because you think this is a contest to see who can stay the leanest while gaining, then you have it ass backwards.
I could see if the person writing this was some obese fat ass who looked like he didn’t lift, but that has never been the case. There aren’t too many guys on the planet going from where I started to where I am now while maintaining a sub-10% body fat reading the whole way.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Robby Robinson = Natural
???[/quote]
If you read his book has states they all used in the 70’s but essentially they didn’t know what the stuff really was doing to them besides they got bigger. It was actually one of the biggest regrets of his life. What I meant was focusing after his time in bodybuilding shows up until now. I believe he is 64 now and is in great shape, better looking then 99% of anyone on these forums and he stays a very low body fat year round while gaining. It was just an example of this being possible naturally as he is no longer using. Prior drug use didn’t change his DNA and RNA
Check out his website if you curious on his current state, just reading through his blog gives a lot of great insights if you not down for an entire book.
[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
You never said how you know this guy is on steroids.[/quote]
It’s clear in his physique, he competes in only untested shows, and he’s seriously aiming to be an IFBB pro. I know his history, and it’s very clear.[/quote]
You can tell someone is on steroids just by looking at them? Does he have track marks? Or is he jsut way more advanced than you? Maybe you should tell your client or whoever it is to talk to the guy on “steroids” for advice.
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Robby Robinson = Natural
???[/quote]
If you read his book has states they all used in the 70’s but essentially they didn’t know what the stuff really was doing to them besides they got bigger. [/quote]
O’ Really? No idea huh? Some how i doubt it.
[quote]crazyj23 wrote:
[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
You never said how you know this guy is on steroids.[/quote]
It’s clear in his physique, he competes in only untested shows, and he’s seriously aiming to be an IFBB pro. I know his history, and it’s very clear.[/quote]
You can tell someone is on steroids just by looking at them? Does he have track marks? Or is he jsut way more advanced than you? Maybe you should tell your client or whoever it is to talk to the guy on “steroids” for advice.[/quote]
Um read post right above yours he admitted he used.
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
I believe he is 64 now and is in great shape, better looking then 99% of anyone on these forums and he stays a very low body fat year round while gaining. It was just an example of this being possible naturally as he is no longer using. Prior drug use didn’t change his DNA and RNA[/quote]
I seriously doubt he’s gaining any muscle in his 60s without the use of drugs.
Prior drug use earned him the muscle mass he has today.
[quote]ElevenMag wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
Robby Robinson = Natural
???[/quote]
If you read his book has states they all used in the 70’s but essentially they didn’t know what the stuff really was doing to them besides they got bigger. It was actually one of the biggest regrets of his life. What I meant was focusing after his time in bodybuilding shows up until now. I believe he is 64 now and is in great shape, better looking then 99% of anyone on these forums and he stays a very low body fat year round while gaining. It was just an example of this being possible naturally as he is no longer using. Prior drug use didn’t change his DNA and RNA
Check out his website if you curious on his current state, just reading through his blog gives a lot of great insights if you not down for an entire book.[/quote]
Dude, first off, Robby is nowhere near as built as he was in his prime…so making it seem like he is still “growing” is a tad facetious. Further, there aren’t too many guys in their 60’s capable of making gains anywhere near that of even someone just starting in their 40’s. I think you should get a free testosterone pass the moment you hit 55 years of age, but let’s get real here. if you see the average 60 year old “blowing up”…natural it ain’t.
Looking at some guy who trained all his life who is literally running twice as hard just to stay in the same place and claiming he is making gains while lean is ridiculous. he stays lean because lifting is in his soul and he wants to stay in shape after spending a life time being super swole…but I dare you to show me the GAINS being made from it with some before and after shots in his 60’s.
I like Robby…and think he deserved way more credit than he ever got…but I am not sure if you really think he is “making gains” or not.
It kinda frustrates me that a polite, seemingly smart and advanced guy like 2020wellness gets so many bullshit responses in a thread like this. I mean fuck, it’s not like he’s a 130 lbs 17 year old asking how to get big biceps (15"), or some cocky douchebag trolling tnation. People pretending like they don’t get what he’s asking/wanting to discuss, playing dumb just to try and make OP look silly, twisting words, etc.
So much for hallowed’s thinking most people are decent and stuff…shit.
About searching for another thread where this was discussed…shit guys, you all know how that almost always works. Person gets flamed for bumping it.
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
It kinda frustrates me that a polite, seemingly smart and advanced guy like 2020wellness gets so many bullshit responses in a thread like this. I mean fuck, it’s not like he’s a 130 lbs 17 year old asking how to get big biceps (15"), or some cocky douchebag trolling tnation. People pretending like they don’t get what he’s asking/wanting to discuss, playing dumb just to try and make OP look silly, twisting words, etc.
So much for hallowed’s thinking most people are decent and stuff…shit.
About searching for another thread where this was discussed…shit guys, you all know how that almost always works. Person gets flamed for bumping it. [/quote]
Good post. This wasn’t even a bad discussion…and some things that needed to be said have been.
I get the feeling some here are basing their approach on some arbitrary concept that everyone is supposed to gain muscle at near the same rate under the exact same circumstances when this is just not true.
If Bodybuilder 1 bulks up over 10 years and gains 100lbs of lean body mass, I am not going to expect to see anywhere near the same progress on the Bodybuilder 2 who literally kept throwing on the breaks every time he lost an ab.
It seems to be in fashion lately to act like you can predict gains or that we all grow best at a specific body fat percentage.
[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
[quote]Hallowed wrote:
[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
[quote]Hallowed wrote:
[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
I personally think that you don’t need to be super lean all year round, but I also don’t think that you need to put on excess fat in the offseason as a natural and expect that simply because you added a good deal of weight, some of it must be muscle because you are training hard.
IMO, you feed your body what it needs nutrient-wise, and you don’t need more than that. Too many guys justify eating boatloads of food and getting too soft (40-50 lb over their contest weights) and end up making just as much if not slightly less or marginally more progress than the guy that ate enough nutrients to grow on, but not much more than that.
As a natty, unfortunately, you can’t just constantly add weight and grow more and more.
So I would stay your friend ought to probably fall in between staying cut all year round and carrying too much weight.
Also, tell him to stop comparing himself or judging himself against users…it’s a waste of time.
[/quote]
Thanks for the post. I’m not saying to get fat, I’m simply saying that staying in the single digits and expecting to be gaining mass efficiently is just silly. The bottom line is that if you’re in a surplus of any amount, fat gain will be present. Fat gain is all part of growth, especially for a natural.
Your last comment is great…here’s the problem though. The steroid user claims natural, and it’s ridiculous. The rookie amateur is getting conned, and I don’t want to see it happen.
[/quote]
All you can do though is share your knowledge and leave it at that. Ultimately grown men (and women) are either going to take good advice… Or learn the hard way. How Much effort is it worth putting in? Something something pearls before swine something something.[/quote]
If you’re passionate about a subject, and have a genuine interest in helping the person, it’s worth plenty of time and effort. I’m not going to hound him about it day after day, but I’m going to make sure I do all that I can to keep him from making a mistake.[/quote]
Interesting. Not sure what personality type that is.
I guess I don’t believe in doing “all I can” to stop grown people from figuring things out on their own. Well knock yourself out and good luck.
[/quote]
Personality type of someone caring about helping someone else?
Thanks for the luck.[/quote]
Mistakes have value. Just saying.
The fact that you even needed to make a thread for ways to get through to him proves it’s going to be a fruitless endeavor.
Sit back and wait for the right time to say ‘I told you so’. That’s the best bet for stubborn people.
[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
[quote]Hallowed wrote:
[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Without a video i cant understand your post.[/quote]
No worries, I wouldn’t want advice from someone of your intelligence level if that truly is the case.[/quote]
Yes judge my intellect off of one post.
Anyways others have given you what I would say is the right thing but you are unable to actually accept their advice. If you have already explained your position and a solid argument and your friend still does not agree then who are you to try and force them to do something against what he/she wants. Let them do what they want and let them learn from the experience.[/quote]
Did you give me anything else to judge off of? No, you provided a smart ass sarcastic comment based off of the fact that I post plenty of videos. If you’re gonna act insincerely, expect to be treated insincerely.
[/quote]
LOL
Welcome to the internet.
[/quote]
I get that, and my point was that if he comes at me with a smart ass attitude, he shouldn’t act like I’m doing something out of line by calling him on it. Welcome to the internet indeed, where apparently the majority of people aren’t ‘decent’ or ‘good’ as you thought people are in one of your last posts to me.
Basically, act like a douche, expect to be treated like a douche. Where is the problem with that?
[/quote]
Do you expect to be treated like a douche for making this post?
Serious question.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]hungry4more wrote:
It kinda frustrates me that a polite, seemingly smart and advanced guy like 2020wellness gets so many bullshit responses in a thread like this. I mean fuck, it’s not like he’s a 130 lbs 17 year old asking how to get big biceps (15"), or some cocky douchebag trolling tnation. People pretending like they don’t get what he’s asking/wanting to discuss, playing dumb just to try and make OP look silly, twisting words, etc.
So much for hallowed’s thinking most people are decent and stuff…shit.
About searching for another thread where this was discussed…shit guys, you all know how that almost always works. Person gets flamed for bumping it. [/quote]
Good post. This wasn’t even a bad discussion…and some things that needed to be said have been.
I get the feeling some here are basing their approach on some arbitrary concept that everyone is supposed to gain muscle at near the same rate under the exact same circumstances when this is just not true.
If Bodybuilder 1 bulks up over 10 years and gains 100lbs of lean body mass, I am not going to expect to see anywhere near the same progress on the Bodybuilder 2 who literally kept throwing on the breaks every time he lost an ab.
It seems to be in fashion lately to act like you can predict gains or that we all grow best at a specific body fat percentage.[/quote]
It’s pretty obvious that people don’t grow at any constant rate…if we did, this would be a lot easier lol.
That being said, show me the studies that say someone grows better while fatter than when slightly leaner. Especially given the fact that we are talking about competitive bodybuilders here, something I think which is important to remember, if you can grow at a similar rate while being closer to your competition weight rather than being 10, 20, or even 30 lb heavier, than I think that’s a better approach. It’s not to say that you won’t gain some muscle if you are slightly fatter, but will that really offset the weight you will have to lose to get into competition shape? For a natural, those are serious considerations.