Estradiol Below 10 on Last Labs

Training Over 35 Lifter
1

On my new lab test my Estradiol came back <10. I have still felt pretty good minus being sick a week and a little stressed with my job. I guess if anything has pointed to low E2 it would be my joints being a little achy. I just tossed it up to cold weather, an from a lot of overtime at work. But now I see that my E2 is low.

I currently take 3 drops of Anastrozole every day. That is a little less than a mg a week. Should I go down to one drop?

Thanks for any suggestions.

This is what I have been taking:
100mg week (50x2) (thur & Fri)
250iu HCG EOD
3 drops of Anastrozole every night.

Lab test from 12/16/2009:
12/16/2009 (100mg/Wk TEST, 3 drops Anastrozole d, 250iu HCG EOD)
Testosterone, Total 1095.71
Free testosterone 364.4
% Free testosterone 3.2
SP-Estradiol 19.3
SHGB 18

Lab test from 01/21/2010
12/16/2009 (100mg/Wk TEST, 3 drops Anastrozole d, 250iu HCG EOD)
Testosterone, Total 765.72
Free testosterone 242.2
% Free testosterone 3.2
SP-Estradiol <10
SHGB 15

2

I would split up your t dose by several days…monday and friday for example. This will keep levels more stable. I would go to one drop of anastrozole for a while. Low e2 really played havoc on my joints.

3

We have seen E2 labs from Labcorp producing false low readings.

We need to also decide if the lab numbers are actionable.

T–>E production is proportional to FT or bio-T. I can’t see why it would drop.

Did you do the tests at different times relative to prior injection?
Test done at different labs?

If you were an adex over-responder, that would have hit in the beginning.

You are currently taking 0.75 mg/wk, a modest amount.

Did you change brands or lots of adex?

What is SP-estradiol? Google does not know.

If you really have E2=10, you new dose would be 0.75 * 10/22 where 22 is your target.

If you have serum E2<10pg/ml, you would not be feeling pretty good.

I vote for a new serum E2 lab and do it right between the two injections.

Adex has a long half life and you can dose that EOD. That allows for better incremental dose control.

You can do everything EOD and inject T with “50 iu” insulin syringes, #29 0.5ml, 0.5" and IM inject the vastus lateralis. Then levels are steady and labs are not subject to yoyo effects.

4

bholiday- My doses are split up. I inject 50mg on Sunday and Thursday mornings in my upper outer vastus lateralis.

KSman- The lab results could be bad, but my joints are bothering me and that’s not normally how they feel. last summer they tested my E2 and it was 42… and then on nothing but Testosterone the next month it was 9. My doctor even told me it must have been messed up. So yes it may be bad.

The only thing I changed as far as the times go I don’t think would affect the test. I usually take injections on Sun & Thur. I have my labs drawn on Wednesdays which is just before my next testosterone injection (Thursdays). That should be the lowest I get during the week. This time I could only get a lab appointment on Thursday. So five weeks prior to my labs I moved my injections up one day. So in other words I took my injections on Monday and Friday mornings for five weeks and my lab was drawn on Thursday. Now If I remember right I usually take my injections around 6:00am. I forgot and took it around 11:00am on that Monday before the labs. That’s just a few hours over a 3-4 days period.

No I haven’t changed brands or Adex. I got a Rx but it’s so much easier to do the drops. I bought a bottle from Chemone and it should last a year or so. I showed it to my doctor and he liked the idea of drops. He was also planning on ordering some.

My doctor post all my labs on the internet. “SP-estradiol” is how they post “E2-estradiol”. I just copied and pasted it here.

I do use the “#29 0.5ml, 0.5"” I follow your sticky on “TRT injection protocols”. The needles work great. There basically pain free. When I go to draw up the test I pull back on the syringe and set it and the bottle balanced in the top of a roll of paper towels while I brush my teeth. By the time I’m done it has the test pulled up. Works just perfect!

So, I guess I’ll keep taking 3 drops of Adex a night and get my E2 retested. Maybe he will draw it Thursday when I have my appointment.

5

[quote]r1013 wrote:

This is what I have been taking:
100mg week (50x2) (thur & Fri)
250iu HCG EOD
3 drops of Anastrozole every night.

[/quote]

I was basing my answer on this.

6

why do you even think you need an A.I.? Just because you take T doesn’t mean you need an A.I., especially at only 100mg a week.

The question is, what was your E2 level BEFORE taking an A.I.?

7

[quote]smallville wrote:
why do you even think you need an A.I.? Just because you take T doesn’t mean you need an A.I., especially at only 100mg a week.

The question is, what was your E2 level BEFORE taking an A.I.?[/quote]

Many guys go through hell with E2 levels taking 100mg of T esters per week. Most will need an AI to feel their best. Many, like my self, had low E2 levels before TRT, but with low T have obvious estrogen dominance. Some have low T and high E. How does one’s pre TRT E2 level change what is required when on TRT?

What is your definition of “need” in this context? The conversation should be about optimal response across the QOL dimensions of energy, fat loss, muscle gain, strength, balance, initiative, libido, sexual sensation, mood/depression, clarity of thought [vs brain fog]. Note that this is a long list that excludes some benefits if TRT, this not simply a TRT benefit list. Estrogens block T at T receptors and thus modulate the results from any given levels of T achieved with TRT. Many cab exhibit many symptoms of hypogonadism when TRT T levels are high when E2 interferes.

I have worked with many men who were TRT basket cases whose lives were transformed by anastrozole.

8

Smallville, Those numbers are on a previous post when I was originally getting all this started.

You can look at those if you want anything in more detail. Basically my Blood profiles have been good except for my Testosterone, E2, and triglycerides. As soon as my Testosterone got to 700+ my triglycerides went into normal ranges. Now as for why I think I need an AI.

My last Testosterone bld test before I started TRT was 288.58. My E2 was 42.6. That was almost the same numbers as a year previous so I’m pretty confident that is… or was my everyday norm.

When I added 100mg of test a wk my Testosterone went to 923.32 and my E2 climbed to 52.6.

After reading some of Ksmans post, I kinda assumed my E2 would go up even more after taking the 100mg of Test. I also read in an article from Dr. Crisler that he seen some patients E2 actually come down on test. I was hoping mine would also. That would have been one less drug to take/buy. As I assumed and Ksman said, it didn’t. But it was worth a shot. Pardon the pun!

1mg a week of Anastrozole should cut E2 in half. I took 3 drops/day which is 0.75 mg/wk because it was easy to remember how many drops to take a day. That cut my E2 down to 19.3.

As posted above, without changing anything my E2 supposedly went below 10. It was probably just a bad test.

My doctor last week agreed with Ksman, that it must have been a bad test, because my E2 would have dropped low the first time. So right now he told me to continue my Test at 100/wk and for some reason cut my drops down to 2 a day taking them all on one day. He said the Anastrozole should stay in my system pretty good for 10 days. I will probably just do 2 drops a night and see what happens??.. He wants me to be consecutive for at least two bld test in a row before he lets me go for 6 months at a time.

9

Different half lives have been reported for anastrozole. This looks like it is well based:

“”"
The terminal elimination half life was 46.8 h, which was similar to that observed in postmenopausal women treated with anastrozole for breast cancer. Based on a population pharmacokinetic analysis, the pharmacokinetics of anastrozole was similar in boys with pubertal gynecomastia and girls with McCune- Albright Syndrome.

“”"

Terminal half life applies to TRT use of this drug. Lets assume that half life is 48 hours or two days.

If you take anastrozole only when injecting and inject once a week, anastrozole levels will fall and T levels will fall. Anastrozole levels will be high when T is high, which is good. But T anastrozole levels will soon be falling faster and proportionately deeper by the end of the week, allowing for more T–>E aromatization. If injecting twice a week, the dose and peaks of anastrozole and T will be higher. Anastrozole levels will still sink faster than T levels, however this effects of this mismatch will be reduced. If you inject EOD, every 48 hours, anastrozole levels will be reduced to 1/2 of their peak levels and T levels from a number of overlapping T deposits will be very steady. So even in the situation of EOD dosing of T+AI, we have a wide variation of anastrozole:T ratios. As a competitive drug, that ratio rules the game. So when we see that even EOD dosing of anastrozole creates large swings in serum anastrozole levels, the context of less frequent anastrozole dosing really appears to be very inadequate.

With this half live data, serum levels drop by 1/2 every 48 hours. Drops from peak by time can be characterized by serum level [SL]:

SL=1 / ( 2**(t/48)) where T1 is time in hours

T=0 hours: SL=1/(20/48) =1/1 =1 [baseline = 1]
T=48: SL=1/(21) = 0.5 [this is EOD dosing]
T=243.5 days=84 hours: SL=1/(2**(84/48) =1/(2**1.75) =1/3.36 =0.298 [dosing twice a week]
T=247days=168 hours: SL=1/(2168/48) = 1/(23.5) =1/11.3 =0.088 [dosing once a week]

Doctor thinks that there are useful levels of anastrozole after 10 days. Lets see:
T=24*10=240 hours: SL=1/(2240/48) =1/(25) =1/32 =0.031
So doctor thinks that a drop of 97% is “a pretty good” in “your system”. At this point T–>E2 aromatization is not opposed by anastrozole at all.

We need to manage our own health care.

In the context of EOD dosing, taking all of T+AI+hCG on the same day simply makes for an easy to manage routine.

10

Ah my bad, sorry I missed your first posts with your E2 level. I thought you were just taking it blindly. :slight_smile:

My point was, just because you take 100mg a week does not mean you need an A.I. regardless of whether some guys do. Everyone is different.

Sounds like you’re on the ball though. Good luck man.

[quote]r1013 wrote:
Smallville, Those numbers are on a previous post when I was originally getting all this started.

You can look at those if you want anything in more detail. Basically my Blood profiles have been good except for my Testosterone, E2, and triglycerides. As soon as my Testosterone got to 700+ my triglycerides went into normal ranges. Now as for why I think I need an AI.

My last Testosterone bld test before I started TRT was 288.58. My E2 was 42.6. That was almost the same numbers as a year previous so I’m pretty confident that is… or was my everyday norm.

When I added 100mg of test a wk my Testosterone went to 923.32 and my E2 climbed to 52.6.

After reading some of Ksmans post, I kinda assumed my E2 would go up even more after taking the 100mg of Test. I also read in an article from Dr. Crisler that he seen some patients E2 actually come down on test. I was hoping mine would also. That would have been one less drug to take/buy. As I assumed and Ksman said, it didn’t. But it was worth a shot. Pardon the pun!

1mg a week of Anastrozole should cut E2 in half. I took 3 drops/day which is 0.75 mg/wk because it was easy to remember how many drops to take a day. That cut my E2 down to 19.3.

As posted above, without changing anything my E2 supposedly went below 10. It was probably just a bad test.

My doctor last week agreed with Ksman, that it must have been a bad test, because my E2 would have dropped low the first time. So right now he told me to continue my Test at 100/wk and for some reason cut my drops down to 2 a day taking them all on one day. He said the Anastrozole should stay in my system pretty good for 10 days. I will probably just do 2 drops a night and see what happens??.. He wants me to be consecutive for at least two bld test in a row before he lets me go for 6 months at a time. [/quote]