Entitled to Beautiful Women?

Off Topic
62

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
And TECHNICALLY it is not delusional to think one can “marry up” but I think in the real world it is simply because it is so unlikely that one can waste enormous amounts of time and energy in waiting on or trying for it. [/quote]

It’s completely delusion if your sole goal is to marry up.

It comes down to the reasoning behind the action. I’m sure there are plenty of married guys who would say they married up, and plenty of women who say the same. The key difference is that they didn’t go out in life with the sole purpose of “marrying up”… it just happened.[/quote]

so 95% of women are delusional? I already knew this, but you articulated in well. Serious question, would a women of decent physical attractiveness ever marry down?

63

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
And TECHNICALLY it is not delusional to think one can “marry up” but I think in the real world it is simply because it is so unlikely that one can waste enormous amounts of time and energy in waiting on or trying for it. [/quote]

It’s completely delusion if your sole goal is to marry up.

It comes down to the reasoning behind the action. I’m sure there are plenty of married guys who would say they married up, and plenty of women who say the same. The key difference is that they didn’t go out in life with the sole purpose of “marrying up”… it just happened.[/quote]

so 95% of women are delusional? I already knew this, but you articulated in well. Serious question, would a women of decent physical attractiveness ever marry down?[/quote]

People in general marry down all the time, but it’s about how you qualify “marrying down” that needs to be expanded on.

I think most people who you might say married down didn’t do so knowingly. In their worldview, they still stepped up a notch. Then there are the people who willingly settle because of their own demons - insecurity and low self esteem being the big hitters.

You’ll see it somewhat articulated in what Angry Chicken says when he notes that it is all about how you make a woman feel. Ultimately, you make her feel like she is moving up in status (or something along those lines). Similar principle for men, but different underlying mechanics.

Interesting stuff really.

EDIT: Edited for clarity.

64

This topic doesn’t make any sense to me, thought the posts and discussion are very intelligent and seem to come from life experience. At least from the more mature and sensical posts on here. I just don’t know why there is so much over thinking to this, I am either single or not. We don’t really just decide okay, now I want to date a model and use a checklist of material to find the girl we think is most ideal for us. If anyone does that they are dating their idea of that woman and not who she really is herself. It astonishes me how many people are in relationships with an “idea” of their partner, so much so they don’t even pay attention to each other fully when they are together. It is like seeing through some kind of filtered projection of something that distorts things.

I am not saying it is in either a positive or negative way, just that it is not necessarily meeting each other fully. Obviously for the majority of people here this is not a problem, especially the married ones but it is something I see all the time in our culture today. Aside from this I think most relationships that happen and work don’t really ever seem planned. Things just work out the way they do, its not something we can try and pre organize, cue our check list, and find what is best to our likes and dislikes prior.

65

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
All this talk about Elliott Rodger got me thinking, and much of the talk reminds me of George Sodini, the guy who shot a few women in an LA Fitness gym.

Clearly, both of these men had an understandable problem: no women in their lives. I say understandable because the inability to find and attract women is indeed a problem and can cause men to become incredibly angry, lonely, and sad, which in turn can affect other aspects of a man’s life. I actually believe there are few things that can make a man angrier than lack of a woman.

Now, most men who can’t find a woman do not go nuts and on shooting rampages. They simply live lonely lives with emotional problems and likely achieve less than they could if they did not have a, utterly strangling preoccupation with their inability to have a woman.

But as much as I can empathize with such men’s frustration, I believe they do themselves a disservice by focusing on what they call “attractive women”. Now, there’s the old saying, “beauty is in the eye of the beholder,” but I believe who such men are referring to as “attractive women” are BEAUTIFUL women, that tiny minority of women who are strikingly good looking, not just “attractive” or “pretty”. Let’s get this straight: few men attract these sorts of women. I believe the frustrated men I speak of would be far better off if they simply became more realistic and realize that “like attracts like” and unless a man is rich or strikingly good looking himself–not just “good looking” or “handsome”–he likely will not attract strikingly good looking women.

Perhaps they are speaking of women who are simply “attractive”, but perhaps it might be true that such women would have not gone out with a George Sodini or Elliott Rodger. I am not a dating expert, but I say if you’re a five, you go for fives. If you are middle class, you go for middle class. Being a middle class guy myself, I think it would have been ridiculous for me to think that I would have had a shot with a woman from a powerful family. Why some grown men cannot come to grips with the fact that they are ordinary and that there is nothing wrong with attracting ordinary women is beyond me.

[/quote]

Good Post.

I would say there are equally as many if not more delusional females who think they deserve a rich handsome man with status.

No free lunches, everything takes work in this world.

66

I’ll echo something Mak just said and ask, what does it even mean to marry up or marry down? Why do we (men) use physical beauty as the ultimate ideal of marrying up? So, a guy can find a woman who cares about him, who loves him deeply, who will commit to him but if he’s a 6 and she’s a 4 he’s marrying down?

Fuck that. If you can find someone who truly loves and you allows you to love them, you’re marrying up. Or you’re at least equals.

You can not build a relationship on looks and money/status because they are temporal qualities. When they change - and they will and not always for the better - what are you left with?

67

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I’ll echo something Mak just said and ask, what does it even mean to marry up or marry down? Why do we (men) use physical beauty as the ultimate ideal of marrying up? So, a guy can find a woman who cares about him, who loves him deeply, who will commit to him but if he’s a 6 and she’s a 4 he’s marrying down?

Fuck that. If you can find someone who truly loves and you allows you to love them, you’re marrying up. Or you’re at least equals.

You can not build a relationship on looks and money/status because they are temporal qualities. When they change - and they will and not always for the better - what are you left with?

[/quote]

I would agree. I have dated some very very hot women who are terrible human beings. I would rather be with an intelligent woman with a great personality who is a six rather than a blackhearted runway model 10. Having dated some of the terrible 10’s I am speaking from experience here.

68

[quote]magick wrote:

I share the same self-esteem problem.

Mind telling how you got over yours? [/quote]

Gets a lot easier as you get older but you need to figure out what makes you happy, what makes you feel fulfilled and just do that shit.

Enjoy yourself, and enjoy your life.

The “other people” part will kind of just fall into place if you’re honest with yourself.

You ever play legos as a kid? You know how you would search for 20mins for the 3 piece and never find it, and as soon as you started looking for the different block you would find the 3 piece? Well, focus on doing shit that you enjoy, you’ll find you’re 3 piece along the way.

69

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
want everyone to believe that attractive women are some type of mythological creatures that don’t have stinking breath or don’t have any other annoying characteristic one can think of.
[/quote]

To build off this, it is very important if you’re talking long term relationship, to be able to see through this stuff.

If you’re in the shower and your chick walks in and drops a smelly weapon of ass destruction for you to wallow in, and you still want to have sex with her by the time you’re toweling off… Well, you know you have a keeper.

Marriage/life long commitment is about way, way more than sex, and sexual attraction. It is however important. But so many more things end up much more important. Don’t expect to be really happy with someone who doesn’t like what you like in bed, but don’t expect someone who is fantastic in bed to be “the one” if you don’t want to be around her with cloths on…

None of this should come as a surprise, lol, or be very enlightening at all…

70

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
want everyone to believe that attractive women are some type of mythological creatures that don’t have stinking breath or don’t have any other annoying characteristic one can think of.
[/quote]

To build off this, it is very important if you’re talking long term relationship, to be able to see through this stuff.

If you’re in the shower and your chick walks in and drops a smelly weapon of ass destruction for you to wallow in, and you still want to have sex with her by the time you’re toweling off… Well, you know you have a keeper.

Marriage/life long commitment is about way, way more than sex, and sexual attraction. It is however important. But so many more things end up much more important. Don’t expect to be really happy with someone who doesn’t like what you like in bed, but don’t expect someone who is fantastic in bed to be “the one” if you don’t want to be around her with cloths on…

None of this should come as a surprise, lol, or be very enlightening at all…[/quote]
Beans there are 17 year olds on here that have done nothing but knuckle babies for the past 4 years.

71

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I’ll echo something Mak just said and ask, what does it even mean to marry up or marry down? Why do we (men) use physical beauty as the ultimate ideal of marrying up? So, a guy can find a woman who cares about him, who loves him deeply, who will commit to him but if he’s a 6 and she’s a 4 he’s marrying down?

Fuck that. If you can find someone who truly loves and you allows you to love them, you’re marrying up. Or you’re at least equals.

You can not build a relationship on looks and money/status because they are temporal qualities. When they change - and they will and not always for the better - what are you left with?

[/quote]

I would agree. I have dated some very very hot women who are terrible human beings. I would rather be with an intelligent woman with a great personality who is a six rather than a blackhearted runway model 10. Having dated some of the terrible 10’s I am speaking from experience here. [/quote]

I was fortunate to marry well my 2nd time around and we’re a great match up. She was always a very pretty lady, no means a 10 but extremely nice and liked by everyone.

Unfortunately now she is quite ill with cancer and I can’t even imagine starting over again with anyone else. I knew she was the one by the time we were dating a few months.

I would say that over the years I’ve gotten the best out of the deal. We did a lot together, raised 2 kids into young men, built a nice home and always had good careers.

I’ve always been able to attract great looking ladies, sure as hell not fashion models but they always had something that I couldn’t do without.

Rob

72

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
I was fortunate to marry well my 2nd time around and we’re a great match up. She was always a very pretty lady, no means a 10 but extremely nice and liked by everyone.

Unfortunately now she is quite ill with cancer and I can’t even imagine starting over again with anyone else. I knew she was the one by the time we were dating a few months.

I would say that over the years I’ve gotten the best out of the deal. We did a lot together, raised 2 kids into young men, built a nice home and always had good careers.

I’ve always been able to attract great looking ladies, sure as hell not fashion models but they always had something that I couldn’t do without.

Rob[/quote]

Best of luck to both of you.

73

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Good advice LoRez. Personally, I feel like I always have to improve myself, in all areas of my life to avoid living without purpose. I know some people are probably content always maintaining a set level of happiness, or aiming for greater happiness regardless of cost. I believe you need to take time to look introspectively to find what you want, and then to go after those things.

Can I ask what your experience(s) have been?[/quote]

With respect to women? jobs? meeting friends?

Over time I’ve generally found a better balance between everything. There were a number of things where I felt I needed to “prove” myself when I was younger, but after doing that, I’ve been able to settle down a bit and focus on other things. There’s still constant improvement, but the drive is different.

74

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I’ll echo something Mak just said and ask, what does it even mean to marry up or marry down? Why do we (men) use physical beauty as the ultimate ideal of marrying up? So, a guy can find a woman who cares about him, who loves him deeply, who will commit to him but if he’s a 6 and she’s a 4 he’s marrying down?

Fuck that. If you can find someone who truly loves and you allows you to love them, you’re marrying up. Or you’re at least equals.

You can not build a relationship on looks and money/status because they are temporal qualities. When they change - and they will and not always for the better - what are you left with?

[/quote]

I would agree. I have dated some very very hot women who are terrible human beings. I would rather be with an intelligent woman with a great personality who is a six rather than a blackhearted runway model 10. Having dated some of the terrible 10’s I am speaking from experience here. [/quote]

I was fortunate to marry well my 2nd time around and we’re a great match up. She was always a very pretty lady, no means a 10 but extremely nice and liked by everyone.

Unfortunately now she is quite ill with cancer and I can’t even imagine starting over again with anyone else. I knew she was the one by the time we were dating a few months.

I would say that over the years I’ve gotten the best out of the deal. We did a lot together, raised 2 kids into young men, built a nice home and always had good careers.

I’ve always been able to attract great looking ladies, sure as hell not fashion models but they always had something that I couldn’t do without.

Rob[/quote]

Well I hope your lady pulls through man.

75

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I’ll echo something Mak just said and ask, what does it even mean to marry up or marry down? Why do we (men) use physical beauty as the ultimate ideal of marrying up? So, a guy can find a woman who cares about him, who loves him deeply, who will commit to him but if he’s a 6 and she’s a 4 he’s marrying down?

Fuck that. If you can find someone who truly loves and you allows you to love them, you’re marrying up. Or you’re at least equals.

You can not build a relationship on looks and money/status because they are temporal qualities. When they change - and they will and not always for the better - what are you left with?

[/quote]

Well said. This is what I was trying to get at with my earlier post.

The over-emphasis on physical beauty (and to some degree money) seems foolish and … immature? I’m not sure what word to use here.

We’re all (hopefully) gunna be octogenarians some day.

76

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
We’re all (hopefully) gunna be octogenarians some day. [/quote]

With girlfriends 1/4 our age.

77

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

The over-emphasis on physical beauty (and to some degree money) seems foolish and … immature? I’m not sure what word to use here.
[/quote]

Over emphasis? Sure.

However, I’m not going to fault a newly divorced woman or man whom has an established career making $6X and accustomed to a certain life style for refusing to turn around and start dating someone who is 30+ and works at Wendy’s with no expectation or ambition for improvement over that.

Finances are an important factor in a long term relationship, and if someone doesn’t want to “support” the other I don’t see that as an unreasonable reason to avoid dating them.

78

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I’ll echo something Mak just said and ask, what does it even mean to marry up or marry down? Why do we (men) use physical beauty as the ultimate ideal of marrying up? So, a guy can find a woman who cares about him, who loves him deeply, who will commit to him but if he’s a 6 and she’s a 4 he’s marrying down?

Fuck that. If you can find someone who truly loves and you allows you to love them, you’re marrying up. Or you’re at least equals.

You can not build a relationship on looks and money/status because they are temporal qualities. When they change - and they will and not always for the better - what are you left with?

[/quote]

I would agree. I have dated some very very hot women who are terrible human beings. I would rather be with an intelligent woman with a great personality who is a six rather than a blackhearted runway model 10. Having dated some of the terrible 10’s I am speaking from experience here. [/quote]

I was fortunate to marry well my 2nd time around and we’re a great match up. She was always a very pretty lady, no means a 10 but extremely nice and liked by everyone.

Unfortunately now she is quite ill with cancer and I can’t even imagine starting over again with anyone else. I knew she was the one by the time we were dating a few months.

I would say that over the years I’ve gotten the best out of the deal. We did a lot together, raised 2 kids into young men, built a nice home and always had good careers.

I’ve always been able to attract great looking ladies, sure as hell not fashion models but they always had something that I couldn’t do without.

Rob[/quote]

Well I hope your lady pulls through man.

[/quote]

Thanks, she means a lot to me and also a lot of other people, but treatment options are limited right now.

Rob

79

I’m sorry to hear that, you obviously love her very much.

80

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

The over-emphasis on physical beauty (and to some degree money) seems foolish and … immature? I’m not sure what word to use here.
[/quote]

Over emphasis? Sure.

However, I’m not going to fault a newly divorced woman or man whom has an established career making $6X and accustomed to a certain life style for refusing to turn around and start dating someone who is 30+ and works at Wendy’s with no expectation or ambition for improvement over that.

Finances are an important factor in a long term relationship, and if someone doesn’t want to “support” the other I don’t see that as an unreasonable reason to avoid dating them. [/quote]

After my divorce and a couple of failed relationships, I really had to zero in on what I really wanted in a lady. I was always successful and made a decent buck, so she had to have a lot going for her as well.

Especially if you get older and have to think about retirement. Lots of women over 40 or 50 are looking for a sugar daddy. I’d never get involved with someone that couldn’t pull her own weight financially.

Rob

81

[quote]En Sabah Nur wrote:

This is highly off topic, I know, but is becoming an Electrician a good trade?

I want to do something on the side to make more money, because I’m probably going to reach the cap on my current career soon for a non-managerial position and wanted to keep my options open.

Really don’t give a shit as to the “social stigma” of blue collar work from the ladies or anyone else. If I’m making bank, and I’m not stressed to shit, that’s all that matters.[/quote]

It’s certainly worked out well for me. Like anything, it’s what you make of it and about creating opportunity for yourself that you can capitalize upon. I am a union electrician and did a five year apprenticeship and have had lots of classes/certifications after that. I am not a “typical” electrician, nor is my salary “typical” - I make more than most superintendents. I am at where I’m at because I’ve been doing this since '96 and I’ve played my cards pretty well and never stopped learning. But even if you don’t get to my level, being an electrician is a good career with good pay. You can always find a job, so it’s somewhat “recession-proof”. If you’re good, you can make some serious loot.