Does anyone else find that they have to eliminate hi gi postworkout shakes in order to lean out, or is it just me? I know science says different but I find its much easier dieting to just consume a hi protein low carb multi species shake minus the carbs until I reach a level of leaness that I want.
What the hell is a multi species shake? Do you grind up different animals in your blender?
Tyler, not meaning to contradict you, but I think that’s
a TERRIBLE idea! The “carbs” ingested in a post work
protein/carb drink elicit an “insulin response,” which
serves to potentate the protein/amino acids in the drink.
Insulin, a powerful storage hormone, plays a vital role in
post workout recovery … but you may have already taken
this into account.
However, you may not have considered that "without" the presence of carbs, the protein/amino acids consumed post workout will most likely be oxidized as fuel (especially those vital BCAA's) instead of being employed for tissue repair! So, the post "WO" carbs serve not only to potentate an insulin response and to restore vastly depleted glycogen stores, but also act to preserve the protein in the drink and in your lean muscle tissue!
P.S. Hoser, now "that" was funny!
I haven’t tried it, but some believe this to be true. One of the other leading bodybuilding magazines (M.D.) recommends it.
DaMadMonk
Joey Z. is right on the mark, but I have to agree with Hoser and ask you what the heck a “multi species” shake is? Keep the shake for post workout and alter the rest of your diet to get yourself lean.
If dropping the shake or replacing it with another “species” of drink results in lower calories, then yeah, you’ll lose weight. However, I’ve found that if cals remain the same for the day, then I can use a high GI drink before and after training with no interference with fat loss. BTW, Berardi answered this is a column recently, I think it was in the current paper issue of T-mag. Basically, the benefits outweighed the negatives i.e. keep using a proper post workout drink (Surge) even when dieting.
MultiSpecies, is a blend of proteins, not just single species ie whey concentrate. I first learned these methods from poliquin, and beverly international. I found that my fat loss was faster.
Tyler, I have found this to be true as well. I have done straight keto diets that have given me fantastic fat loss with next to no muscle loss. But if I add surge, or any protein + carb drink, my fat loss slows down considerably. Both times I consumed the same amount of calories(+/- 50 cals.) but my weight loss was dramatically different. Maybe you and I are extremely insulin resistant.
Tyler/ryan: In order maintain acceptable BF levels (10-12%),
I am one who needs to constantly monitor macro/micro nutrients
(have been doing so for “quite” some time). I find this practice
necessary because of poor insulin sensitivity and other
mitigating factors … i.e., genetics.
Have employed "your" method in the past, e.g., eliminating high GI. carbs post "WO." Findings: Was able to lose more weight with greater rapidity! However, the weight loss in no way correlated with the BF% readings! (A did not equal B!)
My "strong hunch" would be that the extra weight loss was due to dehydration from severe glycogen depletion or worse yet, loss of LMT...! Jason N. sums it best :"Keep the shake for post workout and alter the rest of your diet to get yourself lean." In the end, it's up to you!
Actually fat loss is faster, I am not talking about my initial water loss when I decrease carbs either. I have done both diets using postworkout shake for 1 and using a slowdigesting protein with no carbs for the other. The only time I ever see my abs (on the same diet cals and nutrients is when I eliminate insulin spikes even after a workout. Except 1 every 5 days I have a high carb meal to shock my body. But not after my workout. I always maintain and actually increase strength most of the time. I suggest to many of you who despite dieting for extended periods of time can’t lean out, try ditching the postworkout shakes ! bring them back in when you reach your desired level of leaness.
Joey, I would love to use surge after my workout but I just seem to hold onto fat better(not sure if that is the best word to use) when I have any kind of carb meal more than once a week. If my progress with surge was near my progress without it you could bet your house I would, but I have seen that I don’t. Ah well, cest la vie. I should note that I have a higher BF% than you do. I’m @ 17% now. Not sure if that would have something to do with it.
ryan, I understand where you are coming from. Having said
that… unless one is prepping for a contest or a photo
shoot, I think it’s best to adopt an approach that can be
sustained indefinitely. Decades! Remember it’s not a diet,
but a life-style!" I, too, am a strong believer in the low carb
method, but still I see moderation as being “key” to long
term survival. (Have been at this for “over” 2 decades!)
Well, few things can make up for experience and I must concur that you are correct here about lifestyle changes.
The only thing that I might do differently is cut the amount of Surge that I use by 1/4, and use 1.5 scoops instead of 2. Then, 30 minutes after my Surge, I’ll down 10g of glutamine, and then eat steak and fish oil another 30 minutes later. I’ve been using the Surge during and after and have been able to go from 11.7% to 6.1% BF in about six weeks.
I have never had any problems losing fat w. a high g.i. post-workout shake. That being said, however, there are some such as Poliquin that recommend you base carbs in your post-w shake on your bodyfat. If you’re over eight percent, he recommends ditching the carbs in favor of high doses of glutamine (up to 40 g.) added to a good protein powder. For most, I doubt this is necessary but nonetheless may be worth trying if you really notice a difference by skipping carbs post-workout.
I agree with ryan, for two weeks I have used CKD with 36 hours carb up, Surge taken during workout. Weight loss was about 3 pounds a week but bodyfat % was constant. So I have dropped the workout carbs and have dropped 1% a week since, and my weight loss is pound for pound, fat. To each his/her own, I personally feel that insulin is the switch, you are either gaining with it or fighting your hormones to lose fat with a hypocaloric diet. Without insulin, lose fat and muscle( live with it) on a hypocaloric diet or put on fat through acylation stimulating
protein.
Lurker, here’s where you “may” run into trouble: You
said that you used Surge “during” the workout. I believe
that this probably slowed lipolysis. While cutting, I NEVER
consume Surge during a workout, although I ALWAYS
drink it afterward!
JMB can get away with consuming Surge during a workout and still lose fat ...but most of us are just mere mortals!
P.S. I consume 10 grams of BCAA's (in a flavored powder) during my workout, then 2 scoops of Surge afterward! Keeps energy high, stops muscle breakdown, and doesn't inhibit fat breakdown!
On a related note, has anyone experimented with Poliquin’s recommendation for those trying to improve body comp to skip the carbs and use a really high dose of glutamine (25-40 g.) with a straight whey or whey/casein blend? I’ve got a 454 g. bottle of Champion Nutrition Glutamine and I need to use it. I’m trying to get my b.f. back down to where it was before I got sick and blew my diet. Normally I use Surge 1/2 during and 1/2 after.