Elbow Tendonitis Cure?

Training Injuries
21

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Give up skull crushers and the like for good.

http://www.T-Nation.com/article-comments/4_steps_to_fix_your_triceps

Also super light rope/band pressdowns for 100 reps can help, and if you can afford it get some ART

[/quote]

Right, rope pressdowns sound good…if I go heavy, I start to feel the discomfort while doing these.

I’m sorry, I have heard of ART, but I’m not completely familiar with it.

Stopped doing skull crushers a long time ago, do close grips presses on a flat barbell or EZ curl bar instead. [/quote]

ART/ active release technique is an intense, very precise form of physio where the practitioner both presses hard on specific trigger points and makes you move the muscle in a particular plain of motion. IMO it is normal physio x10.

Yes that is Hetfield and he is still awesome!

22

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:
I too tried the eccentric only exercises. It didn’t work for me.
“isis” means inflammation, “osis” means damage, the tendon tearing off the bone, then scar tissue forms.
Be careful with inflammation. It’s the bodies way of healing itself, but left unchecked it will cause nerve damage. I have that too.[/quote]

The eccentrics have to be done in a very specific way. It is imperative that you ‘hunt’ for pain when performing them. Do zero CONCENTRIC and the eccentric for 6-7 secs. Adjust the angle of your elbow and find the most painful spot (especially useful for the pronator teres exercise) and perform it at that angle for two weeks then modify the position again. Normally starting off with the elbow completely locked out works best (Provides the most pain).

I would definitely continue training everything that doesn’t tear it off the bone. So exercises that cause a little pain are fine but avoid full pullups and isolation work for the triceps. Deadlifts, hammer curls, reverse curls etc are fine. If the eccentrics aren’t done hunting for pain and very controlled you are wasting your time. You need to do them in this manner for a week for every month you have had the injury.

I saw Dr Julian Saunders for a treatment when I had huge elbow problems and he knows literally everything about elbow issues. He works with tonnes of rock climbers and this is apparently the most common climbing ailment. The problem occurs from over-use and/or stretching a tendon that crosses two joints and using it at the same time. Pronator teres needs to be strengthened through eccentrics as it is often weak. During a pullup the bicep is trying to supinate, the pronator teres and pronator quadratus are trying to pronate. The tendon is in the middle of this tug of war and gets ripped apart.

It is possible to have an ‘itis’ and an ‘osis’ on the same arm same side.

Flexor carpi ulnaris (cocking the wrist and performing DB curls)
Pronator teres (Flexing the wrist when performing pullups/skullcrushers/pressdowns/curls)
are the main ones that cause it in a gym environment. [/quote]
Uh, reverse curls are what started the lateral epi for me, so I would caution against doing them. Ever. They’re really not helpful, even in BB.
But that’s just my opinion…

23

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:
Whoops, forgot to actually be helpful while spilling my guts! I slept in wrist immobilizers for almost a year. That way you don’t flex your wrist in and stretch the tendons all night long. Also slept in loose-ish sleeves for about two years, often using BenGay or Tiger Balm before bed. Always, always, always ice instantly after lifting. Before you leave the gym. Stuff ice packs or bags into the sleeve you sleep in. Fuck the weird looks at the gym. You’ll feel better. [/quote]

Hey man, I really appreciate the prompt feedback! :slight_smile:

Before my push workouts I apply something similar to BenGay: it’s called MOOV (oil of wintergreen, nilgiri oil among other goodies, it’s from India, that stuff works!). So it has a similar mechanism to BenGay. You ought to try this…has a nice deep warm penetrating effect, and for the time, the area is virtually pain-free. At other times of the day, usually a good few hours before my workout, I apply Diclofenac, and wrap a sleeve around my elbow, which is supposed to improve absorption. I apply MOOV just before my push workouts, and cover the elbow with a firm sleeve.

Icing right after workouts sounds like a really good idea… should I ice only after triceps and push workouts, or after every upper body workout?

P.s: tiger balm is also very effective, thinking of getting a jar or two. [/quote]
Where did you get your “MOOV”? I’m also unfamiliar with Diclofenac. I’ll have to google it. I don’t have any problem with benching, military or major pressing, but those tricep isolation moves…not for me!
I ice after pushing and pulling.
Stop gaming so much!
:wink:
[/quote]

Oh gosh I try, but FM4 is so addictive! Give it a go!

24

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:
I too tried the eccentric only exercises. It didn’t work for me.
“isis” means inflammation, “osis” means damage, the tendon tearing off the bone, then scar tissue forms.
Be careful with inflammation. It’s the bodies way of healing itself, but left unchecked it will cause nerve damage. I have that too.[/quote]

The eccentrics have to be done in a very specific way. It is imperative that you ‘hunt’ for pain when performing them. Do zero CONCENTRIC and the eccentric for 6-7 secs. Adjust the angle of your elbow and find the most painful spot (especially useful for the pronator teres exercise) and perform it at that angle for two weeks then modify the position again. Normally starting off with the elbow completely locked out works best (Provides the most pain).

I would definitely continue training everything that doesn’t tear it off the bone. So exercises that cause a little pain are fine but avoid full pullups and isolation work for the triceps. Deadlifts, hammer curls, reverse curls etc are fine. If the eccentrics aren’t done hunting for pain and very controlled you are wasting your time. You need to do them in this manner for a week for every month you have had the injury.

I saw Dr Julian Saunders for a treatment when I had huge elbow problems and he knows literally everything about elbow issues. He works with tonnes of rock climbers and this is apparently the most common climbing ailment. The problem occurs from over-use and/or stretching a tendon that crosses two joints and using it at the same time. Pronator teres needs to be strengthened through eccentrics as it is often weak. During a pullup the bicep is trying to supinate, the pronator teres and pronator quadratus are trying to pronate. The tendon is in the middle of this tug of war and gets ripped apart.

It is possible to have an ‘itis’ and an ‘osis’ on the same arm same side.

Flexor carpi ulnaris (cocking the wrist and performing DB curls)
Pronator teres (Flexing the wrist when performing pullups/skullcrushers/pressdowns/curls)
are the main ones that cause it in a gym environment. [/quote]
Uh, reverse curls are what started the lateral epi for me, so I would caution against doing them. Ever. They’re really not helpful, even in BB.
But that’s just my opinion…[/quote]

I’ve never felt any discomfort doing reverse curls, as far as elbow pain is concerned. I don’t go that heavy either, since I treat it as an isolation exercise.

25

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Give up skull crushers and the like for good.

http://www.T-Nation.com/article-comments/4_steps_to_fix_your_triceps

Also super light rope/band pressdowns for 100 reps can help, and if you can afford it get some ART

[/quote]

Right, rope pressdowns sound good…if I go heavy, I start to feel the discomfort while doing these.

I’m sorry, I have heard of ART, but I’m not completely familiar with it.

Stopped doing skull crushers a long time ago, do close grips presses on a flat barbell or EZ curl bar instead. [/quote]

ART/ active release technique is an intense, very precise form of physio where the practitioner both presses hard on specific trigger points and makes you move the muscle in a particular plain of motion. IMO it is normal physio x10.

Yes that is Hetfield and he is still awesome![/quote]

Sounds good. Would acupuncture be a form of ART?

Metallica’s releasing a new album sometime soon, yeah?

26

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:
I too tried the eccentric only exercises. It didn’t work for me.
“isis” means inflammation, “osis” means damage, the tendon tearing off the bone, then scar tissue forms.
Be careful with inflammation. It’s the bodies way of healing itself, but left unchecked it will cause nerve damage. I have that too.[/quote]

The eccentrics have to be done in a very specific way. It is imperative that you ‘hunt’ for pain when performing them. Do zero CONCENTRIC and the eccentric for 6-7 secs. Adjust the angle of your elbow and find the most painful spot (especially useful for the pronator teres exercise) and perform it at that angle for two weeks then modify the position again. Normally starting off with the elbow completely locked out works best (Provides the most pain).

I would definitely continue training everything that doesn’t tear it off the bone. So exercises that cause a little pain are fine but avoid full pullups and isolation work for the triceps. Deadlifts, hammer curls, reverse curls etc are fine. If the eccentrics aren’t done hunting for pain and very controlled you are wasting your time. You need to do them in this manner for a week for every month you have had the injury.

I saw Dr Julian Saunders for a treatment when I had huge elbow problems and he knows literally everything about elbow issues. He works with tonnes of rock climbers and this is apparently the most common climbing ailment. The problem occurs from over-use and/or stretching a tendon that crosses two joints and using it at the same time. Pronator teres needs to be strengthened through eccentrics as it is often weak. During a pullup the bicep is trying to supinate, the pronator teres and pronator quadratus are trying to pronate. The tendon is in the middle of this tug of war and gets ripped apart.

It is possible to have an ‘itis’ and an ‘osis’ on the same arm same side.

Flexor carpi ulnaris (cocking the wrist and performing DB curls)
Pronator teres (Flexing the wrist when performing pullups/skullcrushers/pressdowns/curls)
are the main ones that cause it in a gym environment. [/quote]

Avoiding triceps isolation work I can understand, but I’ve experienced no pain doing any kind of pull ups whatsoever.

27

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:
I too tried the eccentric only exercises. It didn’t work for me.
“isis” means inflammation, “osis” means damage, the tendon tearing off the bone, then scar tissue forms.
Be careful with inflammation. It’s the bodies way of healing itself, but left unchecked it will cause nerve damage. I have that too.[/quote]

The eccentrics have to be done in a very specific way. It is imperative that you ‘hunt’ for pain when performing them. Do zero CONCENTRIC and the eccentric for 6-7 secs. Adjust the angle of your elbow and find the most painful spot (especially useful for the pronator teres exercise) and perform it at that angle for two weeks then modify the position again. Normally starting off with the elbow completely locked out works best (Provides the most pain).

I would definitely continue training everything that doesn’t tear it off the bone. So exercises that cause a little pain are fine but avoid full pullups and isolation work for the triceps. Deadlifts, hammer curls, reverse curls etc are fine. If the eccentrics aren’t done hunting for pain and very controlled you are wasting your time. You need to do them in this manner for a week for every month you have had the injury.

I saw Dr Julian Saunders for a treatment when I had huge elbow problems and he knows literally everything about elbow issues. He works with tonnes of rock climbers and this is apparently the most common climbing ailment. The problem occurs from over-use and/or stretching a tendon that crosses two joints and using it at the same time. Pronator teres needs to be strengthened through eccentrics as it is often weak. During a pullup the bicep is trying to supinate, the pronator teres and pronator quadratus are trying to pronate. The tendon is in the middle of this tug of war and gets ripped apart.

It is possible to have an ‘itis’ and an ‘osis’ on the same arm same side.

Flexor carpi ulnaris (cocking the wrist and performing DB curls)
Pronator teres (Flexing the wrist when performing pullups/skullcrushers/pressdowns/curls)
are the main ones that cause it in a gym environment. [/quote]
Uh, reverse curls are what started the lateral epi for me, so I would caution against doing them. Ever. They’re really not helpful, even in BB.
But that’s just my opinion…[/quote]

The problem is not the exercise but the way they are done. Because the wrist extensors are such a small muscle group (when compared to others) they are easy to overload, especially with cheating. Chances are you went to heavy/higher intensity/not enough recovery and caused the development of your tendinopathy.
Careful with rehabilitative exercises, too much intensity and you will aggravate, not enough and it will take a long time to recover.

Tendons generally take a long time to recover anyways.

28

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Give up skull crushers and the like for good.

http://www.T-Nation.com/article-comments/4_steps_to_fix_your_triceps

Also super light rope/band pressdowns for 100 reps can help, and if you can afford it get some ART

[/quote]

Right, rope pressdowns sound good…if I go heavy, I start to feel the discomfort while doing these.

I’m sorry, I have heard of ART, but I’m not completely familiar with it.

Stopped doing skull crushers a long time ago, do close grips presses on a flat barbell or EZ curl bar instead. [/quote]

ART/ active release technique is an intense, very precise form of physio where the practitioner both presses hard on specific trigger points and makes you move the muscle in a particular plain of motion. IMO it is normal physio x10.

Yes that is Hetfield and he is still awesome![/quote]

Sounds good. Would acupuncture be a form of ART?

Metallica’s releasing a new album sometime soon, yeah?[/quote]

29

Also, I’ve noticed ever since my tendon started acting up, I seem to have difficulty putting on mass on my right arm as opposed to my left. Also, my left seems to get more pumped during training (left elbow has no issues).

I think this has all been a combination of intense lifting, not enough rest and recovery, and gaming too much, especially the kind that requires squeezing or holding the right trigger on the game controller! Sheesh!!

30

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Give up skull crushers and the like for good.

http://www.T-Nation.com/article-comments/4_steps_to_fix_your_triceps

Also super light rope/band pressdowns for 100 reps can help, and if you can afford it get some ART

[/quote]

Right, rope pressdowns sound good…if I go heavy, I start to feel the discomfort while doing these.

I’m sorry, I have heard of ART, but I’m not completely familiar with it.

Stopped doing skull crushers a long time ago, do close grips presses on a flat barbell or EZ curl bar instead. [/quote]

ART/ active release technique is an intense, very precise form of physio where the practitioner both presses hard on specific trigger points and makes you move the muscle in a particular plain of motion. IMO it is normal physio x10.

Yes that is Hetfield and he is still awesome![/quote]

Sounds good. Would acupuncture be a form of ART?

Metallica’s releasing a new album sometime soon, yeah?[/quote]

Not really but they do share some of the same principles and work on a lot of the same hot spots/nerve junctions.
Here is a realistic example, including grimaces!..

I believe Metallica have just started recording a new studio album, they actually released a 4 song EP "Beyond magnetic"about 6 months ago that is pretty much the best thing they’ve done in 20 years and it cost me 4 bucks!

31

No kidding?! I’ll check it out!

Though I liked Death Magnetic a lot when it came out, but lost interest in less than 2 months! I feel it lacked a few things and could have been much more.

Some of Metallica’s best work has been fro the Garage Inc. days right up to the 91’ Album titled Metallica. I remember setting some of the best PRs and most intense workouts, rocking out to Hetfield screaming in my earphones!

Metallicaaaa… **** YEAH!!

32

I’ve gotta say my elbow’s much better, ever since I eliminated a few exercises from my triceps routine, and added a few to my forearm routine.

Got a question regarding RICE: I ice it right after push workouts, for 15 to 20 mins. Do I need to compress and elevate it right after that? And for how long?

Thanks, really appreciate the feedback you guys have provided so far.

33

Awaiting your feedback guys…thread ain’t dead yet!

34

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:
Awaiting your feedback guys…thread ain’t dead yet![/quote]
I never did the elevation part, just iced it. For a while I wore some sleeves that have ceramic magnets in the elbow area, just around the house, I think they helped too. The idea was about magnetics and the iron in your blood increasing blood flow. Since tendons get almost none. Anyway, I think they helped too. I think the website is HessScript or something like that. It’s a chiropractic type supply site, they were really cheap.
Glad to hear they’re feeling better!
On a related note, Master and Justice are the only LP’s I ever wanna hear. Death Magnetic sounded like they were trying so hard to be bad ass again…
And all the live stuff sounds embarrassing. Sorry…IMHO…LOL!

35

After lurking for awhile, this topic actually caused me to get off my butt and reply. Had bad tendonitis in left elbow. I was a fanatic for ice. Little help there. I also did not want to take much time off training. No more than 3 days rest. Tried different stretches- a little relief, but after using elbow- for any back exercise, just came back worse. Two things cured it- 1) google Kelly Starett and find his video of him wrapping up the joint (i use a cut up bicycle innertube) and flexing the crap out of it- hurts, in a very good way.

The relief was immediate- and found this to be very helpful right before I lifted. But the thing I really credit for curing the tendonitis was front squats. I had never done these before , but got the idea from the relief the strectching provided. No matter if its leg day or not, I always do some front squatting, either light (if not leg day) or just put some weight on and hold. the stretch is amazing. Feels great after some pullups or rows. Sounds stupid but give it a try. Compress and flex the joint before lifting and practice some front squat form or holds at the end of the workout. took about a week to feel about 90% better. I couldnt believe the relief I got. Added bonus that I didnt have to wrap an ice pack around my elbow eveery night.

36

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:
Awaiting your feedback guys…thread ain’t dead yet![/quote]
I never did the elevation part, just iced it. For a while I wore some sleeves that have ceramic magnets in the elbow area, just around the house, I think they helped too. The idea was about magnetics and the iron in your blood increasing blood flow. Since tendons get almost none. Anyway, I think they helped too. I think the website is HessScript or something like that. It’s a chiropractic type supply site, they were really cheap.
Glad to hear they’re feeling better!
On a related note, Master and Justice are the only LP’s I ever wanna hear. Death Magnetic sounded like they were trying so hard to be bad ass again…
And all the live stuff sounds embarrassing. Sorry…IMHO…LOL!
[/quote]

Hahaha, that’s some true say there bro!

Metallica had a heckuva run, but I think it’s time they resorted to chips, beer and the couch potato routine, and just let other bands step up to the podium. Can’t imagine what over 3 decades of jamming and playing live does to your hearing!!

What else do you enjoy listening to while hauling ass in the gym?

37

[quote]Reformedtiger wrote:
After lurking for awhile, this topic actually caused me to get off my butt and reply. Had bad tendonitis in left elbow. I was a fanatic for ice. Little help there. I also did not want to take much time off training. No more than 3 days rest. Tried different stretches- a little relief, but after using elbow- for any back exercise, just came back worse. Two things cured it- 1) google Kelly Starett and find his video of him wrapping up the joint (i use a cut up bicycle innertube) and flexing the crap out of it- hurts, in a very good way.

The relief was immediate- and found this to be very helpful right before I lifted. But the thing I really credit for curing the tendonitis was front squats. I had never done these before , but got the idea from the relief the strectching provided. No matter if its leg day or not, I always do some front squatting, either light (if not leg day) or just put some weight on and hold. the stretch is amazing. Feels great after some pullups or rows. Sounds stupid but give it a try. Compress and flex the joint before lifting and practice some front squat form or holds at the end of the workout. took about a week to feel about 90% better. I couldnt believe the relief I got. Added bonus that I didnt have to wrap an ice pack around my elbow eveery night.[/quote]

I found your feedback incredibly useful. Much appreciated! :slight_smile:

The compress and flex routine before lifing, probably gets blood pumping into the elbow region, thereby making it less prone to fatigue and pain. So how long would you recommend compressing and flexing the elbow while locked out? Can flexible elbow wraps work just as well provided you wrap them up real tight?

Beats me about the front squats though, I’m dumbfounded!

38

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:

[quote]strangemeadow wrote:

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:
Awaiting your feedback guys…thread ain’t dead yet![/quote]
I never did the elevation part, just iced it. For a while I wore some sleeves that have ceramic magnets in the elbow area, just around the house, I think they helped too. The idea was about magnetics and the iron in your blood increasing blood flow. Since tendons get almost none. Anyway, I think they helped too. I think the website is HessScript or something like that. It’s a chiropractic type supply site, they were really cheap.
Glad to hear they’re feeling better!
On a related note, Master and Justice are the only LP’s I ever wanna hear. Death Magnetic sounded like they were trying so hard to be bad ass again…
And all the live stuff sounds embarrassing. Sorry…IMHO…LOL!
[/quote]

Hahaha, that’s some true say there bro!

Metallica had a heckuva run, but I think it’s time they resorted to chips, beer and the couch potato routine, and just let other bands step up to the podium. Can’t imagine what over 3 decades of jamming and playing live does to your hearing!!

What else do you enjoy listening to while hauling ass in the gym? [/quote]
Actually, I don’t listen to any thing when I lift, just whatever shitty tunes are playing in the gym. I find it too distracting to listen to tunes, as I am a musician so I end up analyzing more than listening, especially when I have earbuds in.
I’ll tell ya what 3 decades of playing does to your ears: Tinnitus. I started using special ear plugs after about 12 years of playing and then went to custom molded attenuators, but once you have tinnitus you’re screwed.
I am an old metal guy though, Pantera, Slayer, Sabbath, King Diamond, Anthrax, some new shit though, like Trivium, Firewind, Dream Evil. Ya know, real metal. IMO…

39

[quote]Sepulnation wrote:

[quote]Reformedtiger wrote:
After lurking for awhile, this topic actually caused me to get off my butt and reply. Had bad tendonitis in left elbow. I was a fanatic for ice. Little help there. I also did not want to take much time off training. No more than 3 days rest. Tried different stretches- a little relief, but after using elbow- for any back exercise, just came back worse. Two things cured it- 1) google Kelly Starett and find his video of him wrapping up the joint (i use a cut up bicycle innertube) and flexing the crap out of it- hurts, in a very good way.

The relief was immediate- and found this to be very helpful right before I lifted. But the thing I really credit for curing the tendonitis was front squats. I had never done these before , but got the idea from the relief the strectching provided. No matter if its leg day or not, I always do some front squatting, either light (if not leg day) or just put some weight on and hold. the stretch is amazing. Feels great after some pullups or rows. Sounds stupid but give it a try. Compress and flex the joint before lifting and practice some front squat form or holds at the end of the workout. took about a week to feel about 90% better. I couldnt believe the relief I got. Added bonus that I didnt have to wrap an ice pack around my elbow eveery night.[/quote]

I found your feedback incredibly useful. Much appreciated! :slight_smile:

The compress and flex routine before lifing, probably gets blood pumping into the elbow region, thereby making it less prone to fatigue and pain. So how long would you recommend compressing and flexing the elbow while locked out? Can flexible elbow wraps work just as well provided you wrap them up real tight?

Beats me about the front squats though, I’m dumbfounded!
[/quote]
With the front squats I think he’s talking about the hand positioning, your palms are up and shoulder width, with your elbows out in front. It’s really hard for me to squat this way, you gotta be flexible.

40

i thought i had elbow tendonitis once.
i foam rolled my triceps and it fixed things right up.
turned out that my triceps were all knotty from being worked and rolling the knots out cleared things right up.

sounds crazy i know but really might be worth a try. will only take a couple minutes to find out and if it is that the fix is pretty immediate.