Efferding Calls Out Johnie Jackson and Ben White

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
How does him having 5 spotters there make any difference? He was the only one moving the weight. That was at Supertraining in Sacramento. Ask RRJC, he trains there…side spotters are standard procedure at powerlifting gyms. Ronnie looks like he hits failure on rep 5…I guess that’s more impressive than someone hitting failure at rep 7 with the same weight because there was no one there to catch it if he didn’t make it?

What?[/quote]

It isn’t about the fucking spotters. It is about being depleted for a contest and working on YOUR CHEST MUSCLES as opposed to NOT being depleted for a contest and NOT working your chest muscles because you are POWERLIFTING.

That means the goal is to get the weight up, not to train his chest effectively.

Ronnie obviously had the OPPOSITE goal.

That means LOGICALLY that if one man is BODYBUILDING AND DEPLETED and the other man is NOT depleted and POWERLIFTING, that comparing the two directly without pointing that out is one huge fucking mistake…unless you were doing so to say that Ronnie simply could not do more weight than that if his goal was POWERLIFTING.

Is this really that hard to follow?

Ronnie does a shit ton of exercises for his chest and that bench press was NOT his first movement in that video (I have that one at home). So you tell me, how many other exercises had Efferding done before his lift and how depleted was he for a contest and was he working his CHEST or powerlifting?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
How does him having 5 spotters there make any difference? He was the only one moving the weight. That was at Supertraining in Sacramento. Ask RRJC, he trains there…side spotters are standard procedure at powerlifting gyms. Ronnie looks like he hits failure on rep 5…I guess that’s more impressive than someone hitting failure at rep 7 with the same weight because there was no one there to catch it if he didn’t make it?

What?

It isn’t about the fucking spotters. It is about being depleted for a contest and working on YOUR CHEST MUSCLES as opposed to NOT being depleted for a contest and NOT working your chest muscles because you are POWERLIFTING.

That means the goal is to get the weight up, not to train his chest effectively.

Ronnie obviously had the OPPOSITE goal.

That means LOGICALLY that if one man is BODYBUILDING AND DEPLETED and the other man is NOT depleted and POWERLIFTING, that comparing the two directly without pointing that out is one huge fucking mistake…unless you were doing so to say that Ronnie simply could not do more weight than that if his goal was POWERLIFTING.

Is this really that hard to follow?

Ronnie does a shit ton of exercises for his chest and that bench press was NOT his first movement in that video (I have that one at home). So you tell me, how many other exercises had Efferding done before his lift and how depleted was he for a contest and was he working his CHEST or powerlifting?[/quote]

Video-poster says in the comments it was at the end of a full bench session I believe.

[quote]Tumbles wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
How does him having 5 spotters there make any difference? He was the only one moving the weight. That was at Supertraining in Sacramento. Ask RRJC, he trains there…side spotters are standard procedure at powerlifting gyms. Ronnie looks like he hits failure on rep 5…I guess that’s more impressive than someone hitting failure at rep 7 with the same weight because there was no one there to catch it if he didn’t make it?

What?

It isn’t about the fucking spotters. It is about being depleted for a contest and working on YOUR CHEST MUSCLES as opposed to NOT being depleted for a contest and NOT working your chest muscles because you are POWERLIFTING.

That means the goal is to get the weight up, not to train his chest effectively.

Ronnie obviously had the OPPOSITE goal.

That means LOGICALLY that if one man is BODYBUILDING AND DEPLETED and the other man is NOT depleted and POWERLIFTING, that comparing the two directly without pointing that out is one huge fucking mistake…unless you were doing so to say that Ronnie simply could not do more weight than that if his goal was POWERLIFTING.

Is this really that hard to follow?

Ronnie does a shit ton of exercises for his chest and that bench press was NOT his first movement in that video (I have that one at home). So you tell me, how many other exercises had Efferding done before his lift and how depleted was he for a contest and was he working his CHEST or powerlifting?

Video-poster says in the comments it was at the end of a full bench session I believe.
[/quote]

No one in their right mind would attempt that much without a warm up. I seriously doubt he did a fucking chest routine like Ronnie including dumbbell presses, machine presses (flyes or cables) along with bench press.

No one is trying to eclipse what Efferding can do. I am simply pointing out that the comparison in that video was bullshit to anyone who follows Ronnie’s training.

If he was calling out Johnnie and Ben, he should have used video of THEM.

Stronghold, Ronnie’s 800x2 squat was shot in 02 or 03, it’s on his Cost of Redemption DVD, same as the 495x5 bench. Far away from the off-season and both were done after a lot of 10-12 rep sets, leg extensions and whatnot. They are also done with BBing form… That does make a big difference when maximally achievable poundages are concerned, as well as stability with very heavy weights.

So yeah, I think the comparisons really weren’t fair (plus they imply that Ronnie made no progress in the last 6 years since then!? Consider that Ronnie was much lighter back then than he was later on, and that certainly must have had influence on his Squat numbers at least), but then again Efferding competes 1-2 PL weight-classes below Ronnie’s hypothetical class, so there’s arguably little chance for Ronnie to beat him…

Why does he drag Ronnie into it? If Ronnie trained for and competed in powerlifting I bet he would have much better lifts than all three. Actually he might have better lifts that were not videotaped. Who knows? Of course he couldn’t have won 8 Olympias doing that. If Johnnie only trained for powerlifting he would probably be one of the best in his class. I don’t think Stan gets the spirit of it. None the less, next year any IFBB pro who competes in a show in the calendar year can compete in this. He can compete in the Ironman and get that out of the way early with a DNP and then try to win.

I’m sure there are some lesser known pros who are insanely strong and will be coming out of the woodwork to try and win this, especially if there is no weight class. As it is, I think White and Jackson are pretty close in weight and if they somehow hit their “goals” of a 700 raw bench and 900 raw deadlift, respectively, it would be fucking awesome for bodybuilding.

I’d be very surprised if either of them come close to a 700 pound raw bench.

If the spotters have nothing to do with it, then why bring it up in the first place?

I seem to remember reading that “Cost of Redemption” was filmed during Ronnie’s off-season in 2003.

I’m also fairly certain that Ronnie never got “severely depleted” getting ready for a show, the guy ate a quart of KC Masterpiece on his chicken a day until the week before his shows. You aren’t talking about a normal human being here.

No one ever implied that Ronnie didn’t get stronger, that’s something that you guys invented. People throw around those videos of Ronnie as some sort of undeniable proof that he’s the strongest human ever. Don’t give me this shit about “best form for bodybuilding rather than maximal poundages”…he was wearing a fucking squat suit.

[quote]Pretzel Logic wrote:
Why does he drag Ronnie into it? If Ronnie trained for and competed in powerlifting I bet he would have much better lifts than all three[/quote] He may have more potential for absolute strength, yes, but in Powerlifting, weight-classes do matter. Little Chance of Ronnie beating Efferding or Jackson, but I bet he could grease White. [quote]. Actually he might have better lifts that were not videotaped. Who knows? Of course he couldn’t have won 8 Olympias doing that. If Johnnie only trained for powerlifting he would probably be one of the best in his class. I don’t think Stan gets the spirit of it. None the less, next year any IFBB pro who competes in a show in the calendar year can compete in this. He can compete in the Ironman and get that out of the way early with a DNP and then try to win.

I’m sure there are some lesser known pros who are insanely strong and will be coming out of the woodwork to try and win this, especially if there is no weight class. As it is, I think White and Jackson are pretty close in weight[/quote] ? What does white usually weigh? [quote] and if they somehow hit their “goals” of a 700 raw bench and 900 raw deadlift, respectively, it would be fucking awesome for bodybuilding. [/quote]
Hey, Hoornstra (bodybuilder, competes in PL at 242) benched 715 raw in the gym and I think 675 by now in competition (raw again. previously got 615 but I’m not sure if he has benched in a comp again since then) ?

If he could just get his squat and dl up to similarly impressive levels… One beast of a “small” guy though, in any event :slight_smile:

[quote]Stan Efferding said:
Mad Respect for Ronnie. Never said anything to the contrary. Fact is, i couldn’t find any video of JOJ or Ben squatting and Johnnie’s only bench video is him missing a 600 WEARING A SHIRT. Just wanted to create a bit of perspective and demonstrate that Johnnie and Ben are out of their league. I turn 42 next month and Ronnie says he’s making a comeback, since JOJ and Ben clearly can’t hang then maybe Ronnie and I can have a match up between two old dinosaurs, that would be fun!!
[/quote]

A partial description of the DVD reads:

“Mitsuru Okabe once again films Ronnie Coleman, this time in August 2003 during his off-season preparations for the 2003 IFBB Mr. Olympia.”

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Stan Efferding said:
Mad Respect for Ronnie. Never said anything to the contrary. Fact is, i couldn’t find any video of JOJ or Ben squatting and Johnnie’s only bench video is him missing a 600 WEARING A SHIRT. Just wanted to create a bit of perspective and demonstrate that Johnnie and Ben are out of their league. I turn 42 next month and Ronnie says he’s making a comeback, since JOJ and Ben clearly can’t hang then maybe Ronnie and I can have a match up between two old dinosaurs, that would be fun!!
[/quote]

I’d be curious about the result of such an event, if it were to take place. Ronnie has a lot of potential overall… And he has Stan when it comes to sheer mass… So with enough specialized training, who knows…
Any idea about Stan’s training history? I mean, he just now came out of the woodwork… Never heard of him before his 210lb DB’s incline bench vid.

Ronnie doing westside or so, now that would be something…

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Stan Efferding said:
Mad Respect for Ronnie. Never said anything to the contrary. Fact is, i couldn’t find any video of JOJ or Ben squatting and Johnnie’s only bench video is him missing a 600 WEARING A SHIRT. Just wanted to create a bit of perspective and demonstrate that Johnnie and Ben are out of theirÃ?¯Ã?»Ã?¿ league. I turn 42 next month and Ronnie says he’s making a comeback, since JOJ and Ben clearly can’t hang then maybe Ronnie and I can have a match up between two old dinosaurs, that would be fun!!

I’d be curious about the result of such an event, if it were to take place. Ronnie has a lot of potential overall… And he has Stan when it comes to sheer mass… So with enough specialized training, who knows…
Any idea about Stan’s training history? I mean, he just now came out of the woodwork… Never heard of him before his 210lb DB’s incline bench vid.

Ronnie doing westside or so, now that would be something…
[/quote]

I remember Stan saying he trained like a bodybuilder most of his career in a video with Flex wheeler.

[quote]anonym wrote:
A partial description of the DVD reads:

“Mitsuru Okabe once again films Ronnie Coleman, this time in August 2003 during his off-season preparations for the 2003 IFBB Mr. Olympia.”[/quote]

…and just to add, he was coming down in weight at the time and had already cleaned up his diet and lost weight.

[quote]anonym wrote:
A partial description of the DVD reads:

“Mitsuru Okabe once again films Ronnie Coleman, this time in August 2003 during his off-season preparations for the 2003 IFBB Mr. Olympia.”[/quote]

The fact that his “off season” is still going on in August when the O is in September should tell you guys something…

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
If the spotters have nothing to do with it, then why bring it up in the first place?

I seem to remember reading that “Cost of Redemption” was filmed during Ronnie’s off-season in 2003.

I’m also fairly certain that Ronnie never got “severely depleted” getting ready for a show, the guy ate a quart of KC Masterpiece on his chicken a day until the week before his shows. You aren’t talking about a normal human being here.

No one ever implied that Ronnie didn’t get stronger, that’s something that you guys invented. People throw around those videos of Ronnie as some sort of undeniable proof that he’s the strongest human ever. Don’t give me this shit about “best form for bodybuilding rather than maximal poundages”…he was wearing a fucking squat suit.[/quote]

I never said he was the strongest human ever, however, let’s get fucking serious…the man did some of the most visually impressive feats of strength while also being in TOP bodybuilding form.

That deserves respect because no powerlifter is going to DIET and expect to put up the same weight as when he was at his heaviest.

I am not disrespecting Efferding.

Also, when you weigh damn near 300lbs, you can drop weight while still eating more than most people. I’m not anywhere near Ronnie’s size but I know the food I eat now to drop weight would cause most people to GAIN. Plus, Masterpiece Bar-B-Cue sauce isn’t exactly so loaded with calories that it would derail the contest prep of someone carrying more muscle than the average bull.

We get it, you are very proud of Efferding. That’s great. I just know what I saw in that video wasn’t quite as impressive as watching Ronnie’s Unbelievable video all of the way through and seeing how much he puts into his training as a whole.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
anonym wrote:
A partial description of the DVD reads:

“Mitsuru Okabe once again films Ronnie Coleman, this time in August 2003 during his off-season preparations for the 2003 IFBB Mr. Olympia.”

The fact that his “off season” is still going on in August when the O is in September should tell you guys something…[/quote]

I think you are putting too much emphasis on that word. Mitsuru misspells many words in English because it isn’t his first language. It wouldn’t surprise me if he didn’t understand the concept of “contest diet” compared to “off season prep”. The man’s smart, he just doesn’t edit his videos like he should.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
anonym wrote:
A partial description of the DVD reads:

“Mitsuru Okabe once again films Ronnie Coleman, this time in August 2003 during his off-season preparations for the 2003 IFBB Mr. Olympia.”

The fact that his “off season” is still going on in August when the O is in September should tell you guys something…[/quote]

The '03 Olympia was held October 25th.
http://www.ifbb.com/reports/2003olympiaprize.html

Mr. Olympia brings home a little more cash than I thought… I wonder what it’s at now.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
anonym wrote:
A partial description of the DVD reads:

“Mitsuru Okabe once again films Ronnie Coleman, this time in August 2003 during his off-season preparations for the 2003 IFBB Mr. Olympia.”

The fact that his “off season” is still going on in August when the O is in September should tell you guys something…[/quote]

Maybe that the description is wrong? :slight_smile:

His food intake in the vid certainly didn’t look like Off-season to me… That was less than I eat (they didn’t show any shakes, but whatever) and he easily had 40-50 lbs of muscle 1-2 months out of the O on my biggest off-season self.

Enough of this crap, though. No one knows what Ronnie is really/would be capable of after a real PL warm-up and with different technique, and Stan still has his lower weight-class as a trump-card in any event, so whatever.

I just remembered… It can’t have been his off-season in any case… Ronnie trains with a 3-way split in the off-season (Chest, Tris… Back, Bis, Shoulders… Legs), over 6 days a week (one of those things that sets him apart from many pro’s who train everything once a week both off- and in-season).

He was using a 4-way in the vid (delts+traps, legs, back+bis, chest+tris or so), which is the routine he uses as a precontest thing to the best of my knowledge…

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:

I remember Stan saying he trained like a bodybuilder most of his career in a video with Flex wheeler.[/quote]

Probably similar to Hoornstra or Jackson then… I was wondering mainly about for how long he’s been at it and what his comp history (both pl and bb) is like?

Gotta google him sometime.

[quote]anonym wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
anonym wrote:
A partial description of the DVD reads:

“Mitsuru Okabe once again films Ronnie Coleman, this time in August 2003 during his off-season preparations for the 2003 IFBB Mr. Olympia.”

The fact that his “off season” is still going on in August when the O is in September should tell you guys something…

The '03 Olympia was held October 25th. [/quote] Still in-season… They usually start their diet 3 months out and switch to pre-contest routines if applicable. (such as in Ronnie’s case).
Though it explains how he can still do heavy doubles and such without messing himself up. [quote]
http://www.ifbb.com/reports/2003olympiaprize.html

Mr. Olympia brings home a little more cash than I thought… I wonder what it’s at now.[/quote] Depends on the supp industry etc, probably…

Makes me curious about this years’ O again.