Like this:
And she snatches like this too! She has set world records like this in the 75 kg womens division.
Very interesting. I praciced this technique in the snatch and made lots of prs. It gives you less hang time before receiving.
The logic behind this must be that the actual moving of the feet to the sides doesnt give the bar any more height.
The disadvantage is that you have to stand wider in the starting position thus spreading the force output to the sides in stead of directly up.
Lets
I don’t see why you’re focused on the lateral movement. That seems less important than the fact that it doesn’t look like her feet leave the ground at all. I only say that because there a few lifters who don’t change their foot placement and still have strong lifts (James Tatum is one example), but his feet still leave the platform when he lifts.
There may not be ANY logic behind this other than this is one of the quirks this particular lifter developed early on and because she’s so talented that she can get away with it. Like Pyrros Dimas and how he would throw his head back, mroe than any other good lifter I’ve seen, and he won 3 straight olympic golds.
But still she hoists world record weights.
The notion that she can get away with an inefficient technique because she is talented doesnt take anything away from the logic that you dont get anymore height on the pull by lifting your feet off the ground like almost all lifters do before they receive the weight.
Try doing a high pull next time you train - you dont take your feet completely off the ground in this exercise where the main purpose is to give the bar maximum height.
Actually my focus is on the fact that her feet dont move at all - not the lateral movement - perhaps i was not clear enough on that point.
And this time an olympic champion - same basic technique the movement of the feet almost nonexisting.
And James Tatums foot movement is just the conventional where his feet leave the platform.
[quote]IRON TIGER wrote:
But still she hoists world record weights.
The notion that she can get away with an inefficient technique because she is talented doesnt take anything away from the logic that you dont get anymore height on the pull by lifting your feet off the ground like almost all lifters do before they receive the weight.
Try doing a high pull next time you train - you dont take your feet completely off the ground in this exercise where the main purpose is to give the bar maximum height.[/quote]
You’re right in that she is still lifting world record weights. That doesn’t mean her technique is or isn’t inefficient. I even gave an example of a lifter with a technique quirk that shouldn’t be taught, but he still lifted world record weights.
And, the “no foot” drill (feet not leaving the platform) is getting pretty common here in the US, I’ve done it and I can’t snatch or clean as much as if I move my feet. It feels like I have to be faster under the bar, my transition to pulling under has to be smoother and faster, but I can’t lift as much weight.
Also, I don’t think that the purpose of making the feet leaving the ground is to pull the bar higher (all though it probably should, since if you’re pushing hard enough to make your feet leave the ground, that’s more force on the bar), but to allow gravity to play a role in your body getting under the bar.
And it’s going to be awhile before I train again. I had hip surgery about 2 months ago. I’ve got at least 1 more month before I can train my legs or hips again.
[quote]IRON TIGER wrote:
Try doing a high pull next time you train - you dont take your feet completely off the ground in this exercise where the main purpose is to give the bar maximum height.[/quote]
Right, the goal of a high pull is to pull the bar as high as possible. The bar and lifter also only travel one direction:up. In the clean and snatch the lifter also must travel downward in order to catch the bar. So the feet leaving the ground must serve a purpose in getting under the bar faster. Or, having a narrower pulling stance is better than a wider one, whereas a wider squat stance is preferable, thus, in order to get the strongest foot position in the pull, and then in the catch/recovery, the feet would have to move, and in order to move they have to leave the platform.
For both of these lifters it might be the case that their squat stance and pulling stance is the same (due to anthropometry or just how they were taught). Or, like I said, it’s just the way that they lift. I’m assuming they are coached by the same people who coach Liao Hui and Lu Xiaojun, both of whom move their feet.
At least the second person you showed.
[quote]nkklllll wrote:
[quote]IRON TIGER wrote:
Try doing a high pull next time you train - you dont take your feet completely off the ground in this exercise where the main purpose is to give the bar maximum height.[/quote]
Right, the goal of a high pull is to pull the bar as high as possible. The bar and lifter also only travel one direction:up. In the clean and snatch the lifter also must travel downward in order to catch the bar. So the feet leaving the ground must serve a purpose in getting under the bar faster. Or, having a narrower pulling stance is better than a wider one, whereas a wider squat stance is preferable, thus, in order to get the strongest foot position in the pull, and then in the catch/recovery, the feet would have to move, and in order to move they have to leave the platform.
For both of these lifters it might be the case that their squat stance and pulling stance is the same (due to anthropometry or just how they were taught). Or, like I said, it’s just the way that they lift. I’m assuming they are coached by the same people who coach Liao Hui and Lu Xiaojun, both of whom move their feet. [/quote]
But moving the feet off the ground to reposition them BEFORE you can catch the bar takes time - Thus making it a slower way to catch the bar
The fact that you as an individual cant snatch or clean and jerk as much as when youre moving your feet is not an argument against this tecnhique in general since there could be other technical factors than not moving your feet involved in your failure to lift the same weights you normally can.
Also I´m not saying that you move your feet to pull the bar higher- Actually I´M saying that you dont HAVE TO move your feet to pull the bar as high as necessary to make a maximum lift.
[quote]IRON TIGER wrote:
[quote]nkklllll wrote:
[quote]IRON TIGER wrote:
Try doing a high pull next time you train - you dont take your feet completely off the ground in this exercise where the main purpose is to give the bar maximum height.[/quote]
Right, the goal of a high pull is to pull the bar as high as possible. The bar and lifter also only travel one direction:up. In the clean and snatch the lifter also must travel downward in order to catch the bar. So the feet leaving the ground must serve a purpose in getting under the bar faster. Or, having a narrower pulling stance is better than a wider one, whereas a wider squat stance is preferable, thus, in order to get the strongest foot position in the pull, and then in the catch/recovery, the feet would have to move, and in order to move they have to leave the platform.
For both of these lifters it might be the case that their squat stance and pulling stance is the same (due to anthropometry or just how they were taught). Or, like I said, it’s just the way that they lift. I’m assuming they are coached by the same people who coach Liao Hui and Lu Xiaojun, both of whom move their feet. [/quote]
But moving the feet off the ground to reposition them BEFORE you can catch the bar takes time - Thus making it a slower way to catch the bar
[/quote]
Not necessarily. If the act of the feet leaving the platform DOES aid in getting under the bar faster (through the assistance of gravity or something else) then the lifter may actually get under FASTER than when they don’t move their feet.
I didn’t just mention myself. I mentioned that it’s become quite a popular drill in the united states as of late, and most of our top lifters who do it regularly usually only snatch about 90% of their best normal snatch. And from what I’ve heard, they perform the drill in order to force themselves to really use their legs to propel the bar up, and to also force themselves to dive under the bar because they aren’t as fast under with this type of lifting.
All in all, this discussion isn’t anything new. I saw this same talk goign on over in YouTube comments when I first started getting interested in olympic weightlifting.
You’re taking outliers who lift with quirks in their technique and have success either in spite of those quirks or because of their own individual anatomy and trying to argue those quirks would be beneficial to everyone.
[quote]IRON TIGER wrote:
It gives you less hang time before receiving.[/quote]
And this is a good thing why?
[quote]IRON TIGER wrote:
The logic behind this must be that the actual moving of the feet to the sides doesnt give the bar any more height.
[/quote]
Of course it doesn’t, watch any elite lifter in slow motion and you’ll notice their feet don’t leave the ground until they’re moving under the bar. The feet coming off the ground and repositioning doesn’t come as a function of pulling the bar up high, it comes as a function of transitioning to the pull under into the receiving position, which for most people necessitates a wider foot placement than in the pull.
[quote]IRON TIGER wrote:
But moving the feet off the ground to reposition them BEFORE you can catch the bar takes time - Thus making it a slower way to catch the bar
[/quote]
The feet coming off the ground and repositioning happens as you’re pulling yourself under the bar, so it doesn’t actually take any more time. Besides, if you look at the top international lifters in terms of speed, I can’t think of an example off the top of my head that doesn’t lift their feet and reposition them, even if they’re only lifting their feet a few millimeters off the ground.
