[quote]Vikingfan wrote:
Would these combos work?
Dips -Chin
OHP -Shrug
Lunge - Hams curl[/quote]
What you think anyone a good combo or can you give me something better
[quote]JOG wrote:
Scotacus wrote:
JOG wrote:
Scotacus wrote:
Pecs/Bi’s
- flat DB press/standing cheat-bar curls
- incline DB press/standing hammer curls
Lats/Tri’s
- bent-over bb row/standing DB behind-the-head extension
- seated rowing/pulley pushdowns
Quads/Hams
- back squats/stiff-legged deadlifts
- extensions/curls
(with occassional good-mornings)
that explains it
Care to be less cryptic?
i am trying to be a butthole here. but life is too short for me to do that ALL of the time.
your movements could have been better. i can’t even tell what your split was from that, but i gather that those are three different days? three sessions per week? more info please …
examples:
you have the two most demanding movements paired up … squats and SLDLs. a nono in my book. AND both are (depending on your squat mechanics) hip dominant. (thus no quad dominant movement, ie a front or barbell hack squat)
you have two horizontal pressing movements and no vertical pressing
you have two horizontal pulling movements and no vertical pulling
no core work or auxilliary work and (imho) too much direct arm work
this would be better. perform each alternating for a total of 3 sessions per week, so week one A/off/B/off/A and week two B/off/A/off/B
Day A:
PR zone 1:
front squat
leg curl
PR zone 2:
chins
db bench press
PR zone 3 (optional):
tri
bi
Day B:
PR zone 1
SLDL
leg extension
PR zone 2:
standing military press
a row
PR zone 3 (optional):
ab
calves
Just a quick idea there.[/quote]
Why do you think this is a better program?
never mind
[quote]Scotacus wrote:
JOG wrote:
your movements could have been better. i can’t even tell what your split was from that, but i gather that those are three different days? three sessions per week? more info please …
examples:
you have the two most demanding movements paired up … squats and SLDLs. a nono in my book. AND both are (depending on your squat mechanics) hip dominant. (thus no quad dominant movement, ie a front or barbell hack squat)
you have two horizontal pressing movements and no vertical pressing
you have two horizontal pulling movements and no vertical pulling
no core work or auxilliary work and (imho) too much direct arm work
this would be better. perform each alternating for a total of 3 sessions per week, so week one A/off/B/off/A and week two B/off/A/off/B
Day A:
PR zone 1:
front squat
leg curl
PR zone 2:
chins
db bench press
PR zone 3 (optional):
tri
bi
Day B:
PR zone 1
SLDL
leg extension
PR zone 2:
standing military press
a row
PR zone 3 (optional):
ab
calves
Just a quick idea there.
Why do you think this is a better program?[/quote]
I thought it was pretty clear. In EDT you usually want to pair a demanding movement with a less demanding antagonist. Say bent over barbell row with a dumbbell military press, bench press and a low pulley row, dumbbell front squat and pulldowns.
Were you doing any GPP or cardio on your off days? If you were looking to incorporate deadlifts in, how would you do it? I was thinking maybe one deadlife day every-other week would be a enough, say westside style. Any thoughts?
[quote]Mike Sullivan wrote:
Obviously, this EDT training cycle was designed by a Supreme Genius. There is no way that a drooling imbecile like myself could have come up with such a purely perfect program. I would say who designed it but Charles might become jealous and smack this person of greatness with a kettelbell.
JOG wrote:
Mike Sullivan wrote:
I did EDT for 8 weeks using a 3 day split and loved it. I did the following splits:
Session 1:
Back Squats for a 5x5
pr zone 1- bent over rows
dumbbell military press(standing)
pr zone 2-dumbbell bench press
-dumbbell hammer curls
Session 2:
Barbell Push Press 5x5
pr zone 1-dumbbell front squat
-neutral grip pulldowns
pr zone 2-leg curls
-lying db tricep extension
Session 3:
Pronated pullups with weight or mini-bands 5x5
pr zone 1-db romanian deadlift alternate left right
pr zone 2-close grip bench press
-chest supported row
BRILLIANT split
[/quote]
I did not do any gpp or cardio on my off days even though it would be a very good idea. It took me a few sessions to get the loads correct. The first few cycles I was getting 70-80 total reps on each exercise whereas 45-50 would be a better range. To incorporate deads just do them eow on your squat day. Snatch grip deads from a deficit are awesome. If you have a competitive bone in your body, you will absolutely love EDT.
The Muscle Logic book suggested a 8 week cycle but that just about killed me. 4 to 6 weeks would be better,at least for me, then a week off and then the 3 to 5 program. 3-5 exercises of 3-5 sets with 3-5 reps. Buy the book and the DVD. Well worth the money and Charles is way smarter than me and explains it a lot better.
[quote]egcabanissiii wrote:
Were you doing any GPP or cardio on your off days? If you were looking to incorporate deadlifts in, how would you do it? I was thinking maybe one deadlife day every-other week would be a enough, say westside style. Any thoughts?
Mike Sullivan wrote:
Obviously, this EDT training cycle was designed by a Supreme Genius. There is no way that a drooling imbecile like myself could have come up with such a purely perfect program. I would say who designed it but Charles might become jealous and smack this person of greatness with a kettelbell.
JOG wrote:
Mike Sullivan wrote:
I did EDT for 8 weeks using a 3 day split and loved it. I did the following splits:
Session 1:
Back Squats for a 5x5
pr zone 1- bent over rows
dumbbell military press(standing)
pr zone 2-dumbbell bench press
-dumbbell hammer curls
Session 2:
Barbell Push Press 5x5
pr zone 1-dumbbell front squat
-neutral grip pulldowns
BRUTAL
pr zone 2-leg curls
-lying db tricep extension
Session 3:
Pronated pullups with weight or mini-bands 5x5
pr zone 1-db romanian deadlift alternate left right
pr zone 2-close grip bench press
-chest supported row
BRILLIANT split
[/quote]
[quote]Mike Sullivan wrote:
Charles is way smarter than me and explains it a lot better.[/quote]
Finally, something on T-Nation that I actually agree with.
I’ve done three EDT style workouts now. Typically, I do not rate my workouts based on soreness, but the highly sore level of my entire body reminds me of beginning training from zero.
What’s funny is that I’m not doing new exercises or really higher volume. I think the compressed time frame during which the work is accomplished is really the driving factor.
I hope this program yields great results, because I am busting my ass each day in the gym.
I have added cardio and HIT training on the off days to attempt to shed the extra layer of fat I have keeping my body extra toasty during these warm summer months.
[quote]Mike Sullivan wrote:
I did EDT for 8 weeks using a 3 day split and loved it. I did the following splits:
Session 1:
Back Squats for a 5x5
pr zone 1- bent over rows
dumbbell military press(standing)
pr zone 2-dumbbell bench press
-dumbbell hammer curls
Session 2:
Barbell Push Press 5x5
pr zone 1-dumbbell front squat
-neutral grip pulldowns
pr zone 2-leg curls
-lying db tricep extension
Session 3:
Pronated pullups with weight or mini-bands 5x5
pr zone 1-db romanian deadlift alternate left right
pr zone 2-close grip bench press
-chest supported row
p.s. Jules is awesome[/quote]
Hi Mike,
I’m currently on the final week of the Waterbury Method which I will follow up with the Art of Waterbury and then TBT.
Once I’m through with those regiments I will be moving on to EDT (I am so psyched!)and plan on using the split you posted but I was hoping you could answer a few questions.
Could you elaborate a bit on this?
“pr zone 1-db romanian deadlift alternate left right”.
Pardon my noobness but shouldn’t there be a second exercise or something to pair the RDL’s with? And what exactly do you mean by “alternate left right”?
Also, I don’t see standing barbell curls anywhere in the split. Did you find that doing pronated pullups was sufficient for bicep work? I’m considering squeezing in standing barbell curls somewhere but not quite sure where or if it is even necessary.
Your thoughts on this would also be appreciated.
Thanks!
Alex
[quote]FFB4Life wrote:
I’m currently on the final week of the Waterbury Method which I will follow up with the Art of Waterbury and then TBT.
Once I’m through with those regiments I will be moving on to EDT (I am so psyched!)and plan on using the split you posted but I was hoping you could answer a few questions.
Could you elaborate a bit on this?
“pr zone 1-db romanian deadlift alternate left right”.
Pardon my noobness but shouldn’t there be a second exercise or something to pair the RDL’s with? And what exactly do you mean by “alternate left right”?
Also, I don’t see standing barbell curls anywhere in the split. Did you find that doing pronated pullups was sufficient for bicep work? I’m considering squeezing in standing barbell curls somewhere but not quite sure where or if it is even necessary.
Your thoughts on this would also be appreciated.
Thanks!
Alex
[/quote]
Alex,
All good questions. It would be well worth your time to buy Coach Staley’s “Muscle Logic” book. The pr zone can be done with true antagonist movements like a horizontal pull(low pulley row) and horizontal push( bench press),split the body down the verticle axis and do a left/right split such as the rdls’s mentioned in my split designed by “bastard” or you can split the body at the waist and do an upper/lower pr zone.
The rdl’s are done using a true 10 rep max and assuming consistent form and range of motion on each rep. You start off doing a set of 5 for the left leg and then 5 for the right and keep going with the sets of 5 until you are 1 rep away from hitting failure then drop to 4’s or even 3’s and so on down to singles if necessary. You don’t want to seek failure on any set. Believe me this will be more than enough for the pr zone.
You will get plenty of bicep involvement if you do narrow supinated chins with a controlled negative.
A quote from Alwyn Cosgrove:
Train Back for Big Biceps
Every biceps training article in the last ten years has included a workout based on curls. Do you really think a lack of doing curls is the reason why most guys have less than impressive arms? Sometimes the problem is with the ability of the upper back to stabilize a load out in front of you (i.e. the midpoint of a curl). If the back can’t stabilize that load, it’s not going to risk a spine injury to curl the weight up ? it just “shuts down” your biceps.
I really like that split. I saw Muscle Logic at B&N the other day and almost bought it, tonight I think I will pick it up for sure. EDT interests me a lot. Another program to stick in my ever increasing “To Do” folder on my desktop.
Remember guys, EDT just isn’t a program, it’s really a system. I’ve been tossing around the concept of inserting EDT into a conjugate templete(aka Westside style). Now, this is obviously geared towards my weaknesses, but here’s what I’ve thought of so far. Charles writes my programs, so I won’t actually be using it, it’s just something I thought about.
ME Bench
A. Military Press(strict)
15 min PR
Close grip bench using ladders 1-5 reps
15 min pr
Seated cable row
Pulldowns or pullups
C Rear Raise 4x10
ME Squat
A. Box squat
15 min pr
Glute ham raise using ladders 1-5 reps
15 min pr
Back Extension
Pulldown abs
RE Bench(I believe I need more mass before concentrating on dynamic method)
A. D.B. Bench pyrimid up to a 10 rm
15 min pr
Tri pushdowns
floor press
15 min pr
face pull
shrug
RE Squat
A. Good Mournings 10rm
15 min pr
Zercher Squats using ladders 1-5 reps
15 min pr
Bulgarian split squats
15 min pr
Pull through
Ab wheel
Stay tuned for “EDT for Max Strength” by Charles Staley. Coming soon to a T-Nation near you.
I for one can’t wait.
Guys - would EDT work well for increased forearm size? Doing a wrist curl then extension (or reverse curl) for example. I’d only do this for forearms and keep my normal routine around this. Number of days/week? loading parameters?
thanks for any help
Ryu
I started this regimen today, lowerbody, 4-day split actually.
I work out at home, so don’t have any competition for equipment. I built my own weight rack for squats (out of 2x4s, extremely solid).
My legs feel great. They definitely got worked, by I love the feeling. I know I was doing something right. Can’t wait to see how my BF% and measurements (yes, I took them all) improve in the next 4-8 weeks!
[quote]JOG wrote:
never mind[/quote]
Sorry, just being a butthole. Thanks, I appreciate the input; I will start implementing this in my next phase of EDT. Cheers
I’m reigniting this old thread to see if anyone else has any more info to share. I don’t like hearing about the one guy who didn’t gain any mass. Would it be a good idea to do maybe three days of EDT and one day of low volume low rep compound variations that you haven’t done on the EDT days? Deadlifts, etc…?
And by the way, I just realized this is in the Over 35 Lifter section. Just to let you know I’m 16.
[quote]hazerfazer wrote:
I’m reigniting this old thread to see if anyone else has any more info to share. I don’t like hearing about the one guy who didn’t gain any mass. Would it be a good idea to do maybe three days of EDT and one day of low volume low rep compound variations that you haven’t done on the EDT days? Deadlifts, etc…?
And by the way, I just realized this is in the Over 35 Lifter section. Just to let you know I’m 16.[/quote]
Hey man im only 18 so its all good shit… i jsut realized i have class iw ill tell you my routine after though
[quote]hazerfazer wrote:
I’m reigniting this old thread to see if anyone else has any more info to share. I don’t like hearing about the one guy who didn’t gain any mass. Would it be a good idea to do maybe three days of EDT and one day of low volume low rep compound variations that you haven’t done on the EDT days? Deadlifts, etc…?
And by the way, I just realized this is in the Over 35 Lifter section. Just to let you know I’m 16.[/quote]
hey man im 18 and do EDT… been doing so for about a month and i have seen some progress in mass gain, and defanition, as well as stregnth gain.
My routine is the Following
every day start on the bike until you break a sweat… around 5 mins should do it… then
Monday- Right and left hand dumbell snatches 15mins.
Tuesday- Incline Dumbell Bench/ Standing Dubell Hammer curls. 15mins
Wednesday- Military Press standing/ seated row. 15 mins
Thursday- Dumbell Flat bench press/ Leg Press. 15 mins
Friday- Deadlift/ Tricep push downs. 15 mins
On Monday, Wednesday, Friday you will also do a pull up exercise following EDT. you will do two sets of 2-3 reps with different grips as follows
Wide Grip
close hands touching
Wide grip palms face you
close hands touching palms face you
hammer grip
Left in right towards you
Right in left towards you
reg grip pull toward right side
reg grip pull towards left
ABS are done 2-3 times a week as well.
I hope this is helpfull and if anyone has any critiques or suggestions pelase let me know
[quote]hazerfazer wrote:
I don’t like hearing about the one guy who didn’t gain any mass.[/quote]
Wouldnt let it throw you too much. I did gain much strength, and others commented that I looked liked I lifted, though as I say the bulk wasnt happening. However, in hindsight and from what ive learned since the lack of bulk was largely due to poor diet ie inadequate calories. EDT rocks.