Ectomorph - Steroids, Defeat, or Real Answers?

The3toedSloth · April 1, 2006, 11:40pm

[quote]Ecto-IamFinished wrote:

My problem is, i believe i am endo in the gut area. Even though i am eating Low-GLycemic carbs, and eating clean, I have a predisposition to gain fat around the middle, THIS SUCKS!

When i up my eating, i get a belly. I lose weight now in my arms shoulders, butt, while the gut remains. I don’t know.

Any help would be appreciated.[/quote]

Ah, the curse of the Skinny Fat.

It sounds like the title of a ghost story that Cap’n Salty would tell around the camp fire to his children, or an old radio play.

“So, children this is the tale of the Hideous Skinny Fat guy… so gruesome he was feared by all the neighbourhood children. His arms were as thin as twigs, his legs… broomsticks. But his belly bulged like a bowling ball…”

…

|/ 3Toes

Majin · April 2, 2006, 12:02am

[quote]Ecto-IamFinished wrote:
Hi Guys,
Wow, sympathy to I am an idiot amazing.

Ok, My routines focused on Compound movements.

SQUATS, DEADLIFTS, BENCH PRESS, PULLUPS, DIPS, PULLDOWNS, ROWS, LUNGES, BARBELL STEP UPS

Iv’e tried rep ranges from 5x5 to 3x10 to 10x3 to 4x8, usually for minimums of 3 months per rep scheme.

My Diet:

Whole grains, vegetables, Protein shakes, brown rice, fruits, no sugars, no saturated fats, etc… CLEAN EATING.

Yes, I did eat over 5000 calories (i wanted to puke everyday)… 8 meals of roughly 600-700 calories per meal

for example:
Whole wheat bagel 270kcal
Blackberries 70k
Natural peanut butter 200kcal
glass of Milk 100kcal

thats 660 kcal right there and tht was an example of a snack

I knew you guys would critic me like i was eating wrong, lifting wrong, etc. but I have done things the right way.

My problem is, i believe i am endo in the gut area. Even though i am eating Low-GLycemic carbs, and eating clean, I have a predisposition to gain fat around the middle, THIS SUCKS!

When i up my eating, i get a belly. I lose weight now in my arms shoulders, butt, while the gut remains. I don’t know.

Any help would be appreciated.[/quote]

How many times per week did you work out each muscle group? How many exercises per muscle group? Were you eating the same way during all your weightlifting? How much protein and how consistant was it? Were you attempting to lift progressively heavier weight or doing more sets/reps with the current weight?

There’s no way you’ve been ‘doing it right’ because the results you desire are acheivable with even the poorest of genetics. You seem to be so scared of your gut that you never actually waited to see any gains. Regular lifting of moderately heavy weights combined with a caloric surplus will grow muscle, regardless of genetics. Your genetics may have you gaining at a slower pace but what you’re describing is a result of lack of effort and consistency. Or maybe a lack of understanding what the latter mean.

Northcott · April 2, 2006, 12:30am

I’m around 6’2"-6’3". My weight floated between 145-150 lbs when I started training. I was one of those ultra-skinny bastards who could suck in his gut and count his ribs all the way to the top of his chest.

I’m now 34, weighing in at 240. Yeah, I’ve put on more fat than the appearance-conscious would like – my abs are just the barest shadow now, though my stomach’s remained relatively flat.

Get your doctor to check you out. Check for thyroid imbalances, hormonal issues, and maybe even get checked for parasites.

Consistency is what gets results in the long term. On again/off again does nothing.

suprarob · April 2, 2006, 12:42am

[quote]Professor X wrote:
suprarob wrote:
Hit a senseitive spot?
Well I won’t call you a name, but I was talking about what was best for him. In your lack of self control strong guy you missed the point. He could do both or he could do one or the other. That is his life choice. Your life choice can be different. That is America, but when all is said and done lifting weights is a very insignificant part of ones whole sum…

Your statement wasn’t simply about “life choices”. You made the blatant assumption that anyone who puts focus on their physical state of being as any type of priority in their life must be lacking in some other area. Not only was it one negative sweeping stereotype, but it implies that the multitudes of lazy couch potatoes that make up this country are all better people because they don’t focus on weight lifting. It was a stupid comment. The person who is truly impressive is the one who can continue bodybuilding while also helping others. Your post made an attempt to make it seem as if it one or the other.[/quote]

If that is their number one focus, then yes, there is something lacking. That is the only ones who would be offended by my post. And yes, the majority of people are selfish and greedy today. That includes couch potato and bodybuilder.
Also it is a proven fact that people who call others names are immature. It is a vain attempt to rise above another when threatened. I shall not succumb. Many on this board put people down when they make valid or newbie post’s. We all have a right to our opinion, right or wrong. So if the shoe fits,wear it, if it don’t then move along.

The3toedSloth · April 2, 2006, 1:09am

[quote]suprarob wrote:

So if the shoe fits,wear it, if it don’t then move along.

[/quote]

Don’t you mean post a pic with it?

sorry… couldn’t resist.

|/ 3Toes

conorh · April 2, 2006, 1:16am

What a pussy.

Ecto_IamFinished · April 2, 2006, 3:31am

[quote]AverageJay wrote:
There are HRT clinics that will help you. Don’t listen to the internet trainers telling you that you are not trying hard enough all the other BS. Some of them have advanced degrees but still somehow beleive we were are all exactly the same biologically. I think it has something to do with the public school system and this myth about everyone being the same for self esteam purposes.

Anyway you probably have, and always have had issues with test levels and GH. A guy like you in his 30s can easily qualify for this treatment and it’s legal. I’d go that route first. Just google HRT therapy and research the shit out of it.[/quote]

I was testerone tested and given a number of 350 and the doctor said perfectly normal.

In the last 20 years,

i have always worked out in spurts, yes, but worked out solid for a minimum of one year, never in lesser peroids.

I don’t know, people keep saying if i do this i will grow, but i have tried everything. I’ve eaten and i’ve done all these things.

I habe not eaten any “fast food” for over 4 years. I have not had mcdonals, taco bell, burger king none of that for over 4 years! not even once. I haven’t had a soda in over 2 years, not even one! I am the epitomy of eating CLEAN. I don’t have cheetos in my house, i don’t eat anything like that, with the exception of once a week, i get a Banzai Burger from Red Robin, and have 1 beer, other than that, I eat perfect everyday. Right now i am in the 3000 calorie range over 8 meals.

My training? my legs are freaking tree stumps,i have no problem in the leg department, i think about legs and they grow. I work upper body 2x a week, and legs 1x a week.

I was also, doing full body twice a week.

If i can fugure out how to post a pic on here, i will!!!

Professor_X · April 2, 2006, 3:43am

[quote]Ecto-IamFinished wrote:
AverageJay wrote:
There are HRT clinics that will help you. Don’t listen to the internet trainers telling you that you are not trying hard enough all the other BS. Some of them have advanced degrees but still somehow beleive we were are all exactly the same biologically. I think it has something to do with the public school system and this myth about everyone being the same for self esteam purposes.

Anyway you probably have, and always have had issues with test levels and GH. A guy like you in his 30s can easily qualify for this treatment and it’s legal. I’d go that route first. Just google HRT therapy and research the shit out of it.

I was testerone tested and given a number of 350 and the doctor said perfectly normal.

In the last 20 years,

i have always worked out in spurts, yes, but worked out solid for a minimum of one year, never in lesser peroids.

I don’t know, people keep saying if i do this i will grow, but i have tried everything. I’ve eaten and i’ve done all these things.

I habe not eaten any “fast food” for over 4 years. I have not had mcdonals, taco bell, burger king none of that for over 4 years! not even once. I haven’t had a soda in over 2 years, not even one! I am the epitomy of eating CLEAN. I don’t have cheetos in my house, i don’t eat anything like that, with the exception of once a week, i get a Banzai Burger from Red Robin, and have 1 beer, other than that, I eat perfect everyday. Right now i am in the 3000 calorie range over 8 meals.

My training? my legs are freaking tree stumps,i have no problem in the leg department, i think about legs and they grow. I work upper body 2x a week, and legs 1x a week.

I was also, doing full body twice a week.

If i can fugure out how to post a pic on here, i will!!!
[/quote]

Like was stated, it was unlikely before this information that your testosterone levels are to blame. I truly hope that people not making gains aren’t blaming it on hormones as the root cause. You claim you worked out in spurts. Gee, I don’t do that.

What a maroon.

Professor_X · April 2, 2006, 3:47am

[quote]suprarob wrote:
If that is their number one focus, then yes, there is something lacking. That is the only ones who would be offended by my post. And yes, the majority of people are selfish and greedy today. That includes couch potato and bodybuilder.
Also it is a proven fact that people who call others names are immature. It is a vain attempt to rise above another when threatened. I shall not succumb. Many on this board put people down when they make valid or newbie post’s. We all have a right to our opinion, right or wrong. So if the shoe fits,wear it, if it don’t then move along.
[/quote]

What? You may not have called anyone a specific name but you just labeled an entire group of people as not helping others or only working out regularly because their lives are lacking. What, you get extra credit points for simply not calling all of that a specific name? You shall not succumb? Yeah, you perservere, you noble soldier you. Why do you assume anyone on this board has bodybuilding as their number one focus in life? Has ANYONE said anything like that…or is that your “non-name calling yet all too ready to stereotype” self jumping to conclusions yet again?

Egilll · April 2, 2006, 5:06am

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Welcome to the harsh physical reality of life over 35. Gains come slower. Fat loss takes forever. If you want results you have to workout harder and more often.[/quote]
you need to train more often when you get older???.. that’s bullshit, your recovery ability gets worse with age so if anything he needs less time in the gym to awoid overtraining.

The_Mage · April 2, 2006, 6:36am

I would say the first thing you need to do is chill out. Stress is in no way helpful in your goals. Also are you getting 8 hours of quality sleep a night? I know people who get into this stuff, go gangbusters for a couple of weeks to about a month, then burn out, and give up. If you are in this group, you could actually be cycling between overdoing it and underdoing it.

If I understand the numbers for testosterone levels, you are in the low normal range. (It’s a very broad range.) Alpha Male can boost that, so go that route before ever touching steroids. Again with stress and working out, ZMA can help too. I do have to say that I also doubt this is your problem. Increased testosterone can help build muscle, but if you are not getting results without these supplements, you probably won’t get any with them.

Now forget everything you learned in the last 20 years. I believe the Scrawny to Brawny program is a good one, just make sure you are doing everything right. Go back over every exercise you do, even videotaping yourself, and find out if you are working out with good form. Many people are shocked at how bad their form is when they watch themselves exercise.

Keep a training log, and a food log. Eating clean is good, but you do need saturated fat, especially to keep up your testosterone levels. About a third of your fat intake.

Make sure you are getting at least 1g of protein per lb of body weight per day. And good protein, such as chicken, lean meat, and fish. Add whey, or casein/whey protein powders to help you get those numbers up.

When bulking, don’t be afraid of gaining a little fat. If you start worrying about gaining fat, it will derail your progress. If you are putting on fat, it is easier to put on muscle. You may need a lot more food then you think. (And make sure your numbers are right, and not estimates.)

You need to treat this like an ongoing experiment, and check your progress every 2 weeks. If you are not getting results, (and not some fantasy number,) you need to look at what is going on, and make a change.

Now the reason you are getting little sympathy here is that you are too focused on the problem, and not the solution. There are plenty of people here who were in the same boat, or similar (or the opposite) and found the solution.

suprarob · April 2, 2006, 9:37am

[quote]Professor X wrote:
suprarob wrote:
If that is their number one focus, then yes, there is something lacking. That is the only ones who would be offended by my post. And yes, the majority of people are selfish and greedy today. That includes couch potato and bodybuilder.
Also it is a proven fact that people who call others names are immature. It is a vain attempt to rise above another when threatened. I shall not succumb. Many on this board put people down when they make valid or newbie post’s. We all have a right to our opinion, right or wrong. So if the shoe fits,wear it, if it don’t then move along.

What? You may not have called anyone a specific name but you just labeled an entire group of people as not helping others or only working out regularly because their lives are lacking. What, you get extra credit points for simply not calling all of that a specific name? You shall not succumb? Yeah, you perservere, you noble soldier you. Why do you assume anyone on this board has bodybuilding as their number one focus in life? Has ANYONE said anything like that…or is that your “non-name calling yet all too ready to stereotype” self jumping to conclusions yet again?[/quote]

Oh boy,you really got me there. You are the man. Can’t top the “man”. Boy we all aspire to be like you. You have ascended the mountaintop. Thank you for your wise words. I bet “all” your friends and family look up to you.
WOW is all we can say. You will really pass on a legacy…

matsm21 · April 2, 2006, 10:11am

your first post on this site was to inform everyone your giving up? your a loser. and you’ve worked out in spurts but solid for one year tops?sorry buddy that aint gonna cut it. consistency is the key. if you really wanted to make a difference you would have done it.

874445435 · April 2, 2006, 11:06am

This thread is bollocks.

Sxio · April 2, 2006, 12:07pm

Yes to be honest I have trouble giving a shit. If the guy has to give up, give up, it’s not for everybody. I don’t even care about gaining size anymore, it seems quite vain.

All I care about is getting more reps this time than I did last time. Getting stronger is my only goal.

redsox348984 · April 2, 2006, 2:35pm

maybe you overtrain?

The3toedSloth · April 2, 2006, 3:00pm

I gathered what little info for the Skinny Fat I could find. It’s here.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=994510

It needs to be emphasized that Chris Shugart says that for the SF, you are looking at possible YEARS to lose that gut. Guys on this forum will tell you that you should expect to see ‘newbie gains’ in months. But this does not seem so for the SF. If you’re training for a year, then quitting, then coming back to it, you may just not be sticking with it for long enough.

Oh ya, I almost forgot. April is now declared, “Skinny Fat Awareness Month”. There will be Run / Walks all across the continent to raise awareness for this affliction. A poster-boy is needed for the cause. A new magazine will be published soon, called, “Skinny Fat Monthly.”

I am also considering opening a drive-thru gym. What do you think?

|/ 3Toes

Albertabeef · April 2, 2006, 3:04pm

Congratulations on everyone in this thread for your compassion for the downtrodden and despairing. All of you disgust me.

Now, for Mr. Ectomorph, if anyone else in this thread had the emotional maturity to resist the “wolfpack” mentality of tearing down the vulnerable to hide their own blatant insecurities, they might have noticed the obvious:

[quote]for example:
Whole wheat bagel 270kcal
Blackberries 70kcal
Natural peanut butter 200kcal
glass of Milk 100kcal[/quote]

According to my estimates using the USDA food database, this snack’s macronutrient totals are:

Carbohydrate: 102g = 408kcal
Protein: 25g = 100kcal
Fat: 20g = 180kcal

Total kcal: 688kcal

Which brings us to a P:C:F macronutrient ratio of roughly:

Carbohydrate: 60%
Protein: 15%
Fat: 25%

If you’ve been looking to eat towards gaining mass, this Carb + Fat meal is geared towards you gaining fat mass and not much else. For the same kcal, your snacks and meals should look more like this:

Carbs: 70g = 280kcal
Protein: 52g = 208kcal
Fat: 23g = 207kcal

Total kcal = 695kcal

C:P:F ratio = 40:30:30

With 5000kcal per day at 15% protein, you’re taking in about 188g per day.

With 5000kcal per day at 30% protein, you’d be taking in about 376g per day. Big difference.

How to put together a snack that reflects the above example? Since it’s a snack, I’d throw in a slower-absorbing protein shake of some sort (I have Matrix 5.0) for some convenient liquid protein & calories.

1 scoop Matrix 5.0 = 2g:22g:2g CPF

1 can of tuna = 0g:24g:1g CPF, plus
1/2 cup of salsa = 13g:2g:0g PCF
(I eat this paste with a spoon out of a tupperware container)

This brings us to:

15g:48g:3g C:P:F, with 55g:4g:20g to go.

Add in the bagel and smaller amount of peanut butter and we get:

250kcal peanut butter:
10g:9g:20g C:P:F

100g bagel:
53g:10g:2g: C:P:F

Bringing us to a grand total of:

78g carbs = 312kcal = 39%
67g protein = 268kcal = 33%
25g fat = 225kcal = 28%

Total kcal = 805kcal

Hey, we ended up with even more calories. Bonus!

Do you think that if instead of:

a bagel,
blackberries,
peanut butter,
and milk,

You had:

1 scoop of protein in water (or skim milk for even more quality carb & protein calories)

1 can tuna in 1/2 cup salsa
1 bagel, and 3 Tbsp peanut butter

for your typical snacks, you would have seen gains? I think so.

I’m currently training a 24 year old, 5’ 2", 102 lbs chinese man who not four months ago was only 91 lbs. He looked like frikkin’ E.T. Big head, tiny body.

I put him on Surge pre & post workout as well as 2-3 gatorade & casein shakes throughout the day along with a high fruit, vegetable, and lean meat, and low starch diet during mealtime (he has 3-4 solid meals daily).

In the gym I put him on an upper-body/lower-body split routine similar to “Big Boy Basics” with an alternating rep scheme of 6 sets of 4 on “heavy” day and 3 sets of 8 on “light” day for the first month, and 8 sets of 3 on “heavy” day and 4 sets of 6 on “light” day for the second month.

We trained upper body and lower body days, twice each per week, alternating heavy and light days.

11 lbs in three months on the most ectomorphic human being, male or female, I’ve ever met. It is definitely possible to put mass so long as you have proper nutrition, training, and rest.

Hell, PM me if you want his training program.

Hope this helps.

The rest of you go pull the wings off a fly.

Beef

Ecto_IamFinished · April 2, 2006, 10:01pm

[quote]AlbertaBeef wrote:

Congratulations on everyone in this thread for your compassion for the downtrodden and despairing. All of you disgust me.
</off topic>

Now, for Mr. Ectomorph, if anyone else in this thread had the emotional maturity to resist the “wolfpack” mentality of tearing down the vulnerable to hide their own blatant insecurities, they might have noticed the obvious:

for example:
Whole wheat bagel 270kcal
Blackberries 70kcal
Natural peanut butter 200kcal
glass of Milk 100kcal